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CorvusBB39

Catapult fighter when there are no CVs

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Okay, another question.*

When I'm running a ship with a catapult fighter and there are no CVs present, does launching it help with spotting at all?  I don't mean the range-extending, top down view you get with a true spotter aircraft, I mean being able to see that pesky DD a little bit sooner.  I see people letting one fly and and have deemed it similar to those "testing the guns" long before any reds are in sight:  A silly pretension leading to nothing useful.

One the one hand, you've got a pair of eyes a couple km further out than the ship is, at least when it's on the right part of its orbit.  OTOH air-spotting range is typically a couple km less than surface spotting.  I figure the two pretty well cancel each other out.

*I'm just full of them today.  I blame the turkey.

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I use it especially for this reason. It'll increase the chances I spot torps or sneaky destroyers hiding on the other side of islands/just outside of range. It's not much, but it's better than nothing!

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Just now, Zargblargs said:

I use it especially for this reason. It'll increase the chances I spot torps or sneaky destroyers hiding on the other side of islands/just outside of range. It's not much, but it's better than nothing!

What he said.

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I play alot on DD's and those cata fighters can be a real pain. Alot of the time if i know a CA/CL does not have radar or has used it, I'll get as close as I can before I launch torps. I'm talking around .5 KM above my min detection. So these fighters that are 5km or more away from your ship and these planes have a 5k air detection range. It is a great tactic to use the fighters on all CA/CL. Also they stay in the air for 6 min and when you have 3 charges thats 18 min not counting the cooldown, so when I'm in a CA/CL that plane is always in the air at all times possible.

 

Hope that helps

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All legit responses. They don't feel like they do much, but they actually do.

 

Spotter planes have better spotting capabilities over fighters too - but don't float as long.  I used to have the dual planes on most ships, but for the most part have switched to priority target now. 

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People don't launch catapult fighters to assist against enemy aircraft.

 

Catapult fighters are used to spot torpedoes. As asinine as it is that a plane hundreds of feet in the air can spot anything that small to begin with.

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8 minutes ago, WhiteRecon said:

All legit responses. They don't feel like they do much, but they actually do.

 

Spotter planes have better spotting capabilities over fighters too - but don't float as long.  I used to have the dual planes on most ships, but for the most part have switched to priority target now. 

Spotter planes on BBs last longer than the fighters by 10 seconds I believe.

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Catapult fighters have a reach of 2km while spotter planes have a reach of 3km. I prefer catapult fighters because they last longer than spotters.

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For a battleship: spotter to Insta delete British cruisers in smoke. Fighter to spot destroyers around islands.

For a cruiser: fighter for longer flight time spotting.

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54 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Spotter planes on BBs last longer than the fighters by 10 seconds I believe.

Wow, you're right. Hadn't realized that. 

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I have found that if one is angling in towards caps at game start, it works well to wait until 1:30 has elapsed before launching the first fighter. Most maps have islands positioned so that the flight orbit will do the most good on the first pass if one waits until then to launch. You get that free peek on the other side of an island as it orbits.

The downside of using fighters near islands is that it broadcasts your position to any who are within range to see your plane. They now "know" a CA is on the other side by using the orbit path.

Catapult fighters vs CV planes is a no-go. Like the Western Desert Lighter Flotilla... We Die Like Flies.

 

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1 hour ago, AraAragami said:

People don't launch catapult fighters to assist against enemy aircraft.

 

Catapult fighters are used to spot torpedoes. As asinine as it is that a plane hundreds of feet in the air can spot anything that small to begin with.

I agree, Ara.  Any planes in this game being used to spot torps is asinine, because those planes will be thousands of feet in the air, and spotting ships from those altitudes is difficult enough.  Spotting torpedoes from those same altitudes is just plain impossible.

Another think that I see as really dumb is how early some people launch their cat fighters and even worse, their spotter planes, in battles.  I never, ever launch a spotter plane until there's an enemy ship that's already been spotted.  Spotting planes are NOT going to spot those ships at extreme ranges that you use spotter planes to gain the extra range to shoot at.  And because their endurances are so short, it's a freakin' waste to launch them before you have a potential target available.

As for cat fighters, even though they have long endurances, it seems dumb to me to launch them before there's any chance of incoming enemy carrier planes or torpedoes.  Why waste that endurance before there's an actual potential threat?  Also, if I'm using terrain to approach an enemy ship that is being spotted by a team mate, I don't launch a plane that can alert him to my presence, unless it's absolutely necessary (such as torp watch).  Now, if the team mate loses sight of that enemy ship and I really feel the need to know where he is and what he's doing, yes, I'll launch a plane.

Generally speaking, I'm a big believer in not wasting the endurances of cat fighters and spotter planes unless and until there's a good reason for putting them in the air, particularly since the cooldown time on those planes is soooo long.

 

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49 minutes ago, BlueWaterWolf said:

I have found that if one is angling in towards caps at game start, it works well to wait until 1:30 has elapsed before launching the first fighter. Most maps have islands positioned so that the flight orbit will do the most good on the first pass if one waits until then to launch. You get that free peek on the other side of an island as it orbits.

The downside of using fighters near islands is that it broadcasts your position to any who are within range to see your plane. They now "know" a CA is on the other side by using the orbit path.

Catapult fighters vs CV planes is a no-go. Like the Western Desert Lighter Flotilla... We Die Like Flies.

 

Depending on what cruiser you're in, I'm not sure that I can agree with this.  Say that the enemy has some fighters nearby that you'd like to shoot down with your Cleveland.  The cat fighter can lock them up for a little while and give your cruiser time to knock some more of them out of the sky before they get the chance to run a way.

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3 hours ago, AraAragami said:

People don't launch catapult fighters to assist against enemy aircraft.

 

Catapult fighters are used to spot torpedoes.

 

I do it all the time. In a BB, the endurance is so short, and the cooldown so long, that I'd rather use it to panic a bomber squadron that IS coming, as opposed to torps that MIGHT be coming. If there's a nearby DD spotted, which increases the chance of torps coming, then I'm assuming they are and maneuvering accordingly. Now, if there are no CVs, then yeah, I'll use it to spot over islands and for torps, if I specifically think they're around.

 

Cruisers are different. Because they have longer endurance, I'll throw a fighter up by default if getting into islands, like the B cap on Estuary, or C cap on Land of Fire. And it's there if CV planes come by.

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

As for cat fighters, even though they have long endurances, it seems dumb to me to launch them before there's any chance of incoming enemy carrier planes or torpedoes.  Why waste that endurance before there's an actual potential threat?  Also, if I'm using terrain to approach an enemy ship that is being spotted by a team mate, I don't launch a plane that can alert him to my presence, unless it's absolutely necessary (such as torp watch).  Now, if the team mate loses sight of that enemy ship and I really feel the need to know where he is and what he's doing, yes, I'll launch a plane.

So that you might spot a DD a bit early, or because you might get nuked early, and your plane will still be up there.

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9 minutes ago, Nukelavee45 said:

So that you might spot a DD a bit early, or because you might get nuked early, and your plane will still be up there.

I'm all for spotting DDs early.  But you're not going to spot them 10 seconds into the match.  And that's how early some people will launch their planes.  It's moronic.  Wait until there's a REAL chance that you'll spot something.

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I use my fighters as spotters on my BBs here, like most.   It helps.

 

But I also launch my fighter like an escape pod if I'm near death.   It will continue to fly around spotting things for my team for a while after I am dead.   Maybe even attack some other plane.   So an emergency launch is always called for when I'm about to die.

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Be careful when launching a fighter when you are undetected. If I see a single fighter, say, near an island then I know that there is a ship somewhere behind it. It's pretty easy to pinpoint the hidden ship's exact location too because the fighter will make a perfect circle around it.

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I swear sometimes catapult fighters lock on to my destroyer.  I mean, I know not really.

The worst is when the enemy ship has been destroyed but his cat fighter is still patrolling around it's risky to enter the whole area.

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In a BB, I use aircraft to spot for torpedoes just as much as I use it for targeting.  In a cruiser, I use it to spot around islands for ambush or counter-ambush tactics.

10 hours ago, AraAragami said:

Catapult fighters are used to spot torpedoes. As asinine as it is that a plane hundreds of feet in the air can spot anything that small to begin with.

8 hours ago, Crucis said:

...Any planes in this game being used to spot torps is asinine, because those planes will be thousands of feet in the air, and spotting ships from those altitudes is difficult enough.

Sorry, but A/C torpedo spotting is not asinine.  It is far easier to see wakes from above than from near the surface.  This is why aircraft were, and still are, used for antisubmarine screening/scouting.  A periscope wake is easily visible from an aircraft, and depending on the clarity of the water (hello, South Pacific) underwater objects are easily seen and identified.  Aircraft are often used for shark spotting along beaches.

In fact, just do a google image search for photos from the Pearl Harbor attack.  In some of the photos taken from IJN aircraft during the attack, the torpedo wakes are clearly visible.

What is truly asinine, is that a/c spotting range is LESS than surface spotting.  This is, of course, for game-play purposes.  Any aircraft airborne over the small battle areas in game would easily spot every ship on the map.  Again, look at actual airborne photos of ships being attacked.  The wakes stand out immensely.  The only reason finding ships was historically difficult lies in the vast distances/areas to be searched (thousands of miles), which is a non-factor in this game.

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1 minute ago, ZoomieG said:

Sorry, but A/C torpedo spotting is not asinine.  It is far easier to see wakes from above than from near the surface. 

 

It is asinine because oxygen torpedoes leave no wake. That was the entire point of them.

 

Even the USN torpedoes, the electrics, made such a small surface disturbance that they couldn't be sighted from an aircraft. No plane in the war ever spotted a torpedo from its operating altitude.

 

You kind of forgot, in your insistence on this stupid mechanic, that your assumption lacks facts.

Edited by AraAragami

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16 minutes ago, AraAragami said:

It is asinine because oxygen torpedoes leave no wake.

In fairness, your original statement about spotting didn't specify a single torpedo type that is only found on a handful of high tier ships in-game.

Rather than getting into a discussion further along this tangent, I will simply agree that the Type 93 is treated rather unfairly in the game currently, in several ways, spotting being one of them. 

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9 hours ago, Crucis said:

I agree, Ara.  Any planes in this game being used to spot torps is asinine, because those planes will be thousands of feet in the air, and spotting ships from those altitudes is difficult enough.  Spotting torpedoes from those same altitudes is just plain impossible.

Another think that I see as really dumb is how early some people launch their cat fighters and even worse, their spotter planes, in battles.  I never, ever launch a spotter plane until there's an enemy ship that's already been spotted.  Spotting planes are NOT going to spot those ships at extreme ranges that you use spotter planes to gain the extra range to shoot at.  And because their endurances are so short, it's a freakin' waste to launch them before you have a potential target available.

As for cat fighters, even though they have long endurances, it seems dumb to me to launch them before there's any chance of incoming enemy carrier planes or torpedoes.  Why waste that endurance before there's an actual potential threat?  Also, if I'm using terrain to approach an enemy ship that is being spotted by a team mate, I don't launch a plane that can alert him to my presence, unless it's absolutely necessary (such as torp watch).  Now, if the team mate loses sight of that enemy ship and I really feel the need to know where he is and what he's doing, yes, I'll launch a plane.

Generally speaking, I'm a big believer in not wasting the endurances of cat fighters and spotter planes unless and until there's a good reason for putting them in the air, particularly since the cooldown time on those planes is soooo long.

 

 

 You're wrong. Starting with assuming a Cat fighter would be "thousands of feet in the air". Ship launched aircraft were and still are often used in low level flight for detection purposes, even something as small as a Sub periscope. The USN uses SH-60's to spot floating mines. As for spotting a Torp, it doesn't take a great set of eyes to see a Torp with a 50 yard wake streaking across the ocean. Its actually MUCH easier to see from altitude than it is from the deck of a ship.

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