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rapier_ape

You're facing a Conqueror, what next?

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One of the most miserable experience in WoWs is playing a tremendous game in your battleship that puts your team in a good position to win, provided you survive, only to be burned to death by a Conqueror which you swore was down to 5% HP a minute ago. I have yet to come up with any semblance of a solution, and have watched numerous instances of lone Conquerors taking on 2-3 other T10s with 40-60% HP successfully. My hope is that in this thread, the USN playerbase can put its heads together and develop a strategy that can give a MT a fighting chance against a Conqueror in a 1v1 situation where the fate of the game hinges on you staying afloat.

Some basic questions I'd like to prose: 

  • How late is too late to use damage control?
  • Have you ever citadeled a Conqueror in a brawl? How did you do it? 
  • The Conqueror is damage saturated, how can you reduce the number of half-damage hits? 
  • Do you ever indicate via teamchat when the Conqueror has used his Repair or Damage Control? 
  • His turrets have relatively thin armor (only 7 inches on the sides), is it possible to disable them by aiming at them rather than the waterline? 
  • How far above the waterline should you fire in order to maximize damage?

This thread is NOT a space to detail how broken the Conqueror is. There are already plenty of places to do that. This is also NOT a space to deride the USN BB playerbase as "BBabies" who need to "git gud." 

This thread is to try and channel shared experience into a "Buff" of sorts against the Royal Navy menace. On a personal note, it took me several weeks to figure out that it was better to fire at the exposed broadside of Kreigsmarine battleships rather than concentrate fire at the waterline. Also, a fellow player told me how the HP distribution in their superstructure is different than other lines, making it a smart target if the hull is saturated. The culmination was the departure of the "WG has completely screwed us with this new line, we'll never be able to compete" feelings I used to have. 

The solution to the Conqueror problem does not lie in a nerf, it lies within our collective heads.  
(But for real, WG, you need to nerf the HE, it's completely broken.) 

 

NO_CONQ.jpg

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"You're facing a Conqueror, what next?"

 

 

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Close in and rip it apart with AP. Your armor is far better than hers is. More, you have effective secondaries, she doesn't. Your secs will burn her, your mains will shred her.

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My advice is not pop your damage con while being shot by a british BB and just focus on killing it with everything you got because fire damage is 100% repairable with your heal and ask your team to focus it down with you because if it cant heal in time it loses its biggest advantage

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Don't be cowed by it, kill its escorts then get close and focus it with AP and secondaries. If it heals from 5% that means you didn't close the range and didn't seal the deal. 

 

The dangerous Conqs are the ones that use that nasty quick-fuse AP anyway. 

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Conq is very good at farming fire damage, but worse at doing the things other BB's do to win games, like close cap support and actually tanking.  It's a lot less tanky and dies very quickly to focus fire, and the most vulnerable of all tier 10 BB's to torpedoes, which massively reduce the amount of heal cheese you can pull off, as the damage isn't repairable, given her lower starting HP than the other tier 10 BB's.  Take the caps and force it to fight out of its comfort zone.

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It depends, if he is smart enough to get a fire or two started and then switches to AP I am not going to worry much but if they continue to spam fire even when they have you burning I will laugh and slap them hard.

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I hit he with torps causing a flood

 He repairs. I set 4 fires on him.

Dead conq.

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don't need a t10 to citadel het, I citadel her using my MO.

If I got hit and burn, I let it burn up to 4 places, then DC and heal while closing in and taking HP off, as soon as I am close, I fake a turn and try to go to her side to gain some nasty hit or lucky citadel hits

Also, you should consider the survival build on the BB like fire reduce, jack of trade, and use the signal

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Most times I see them they usually get focused down by everyone, no one likes them. I got into 1v1a while back in my Bismarck, his first salvo took out most of my secondaries on one side but I was able to point in him with AP till he ran off. Next time I saw him he healed most of the AP damage. 

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The good thing about USN BBs is that they have a 20 second damage control. Now I haven't progressed at all in the US BB line to be honest, but from my experience facing the Conqueror on the GK and the Yamato, best way to deal with her is to wait until you're burning in 2-3 different places, and pay attention to when the Conq last fired. Her reload is around 26-27 seconds (with the reload upgrade, and most BBs use that upgrade, except the Montana, which has a better choice) so once she fires, you count the seconds and use your repair in a way that it will still be active by the time Conqueror fires another salvo, so you don't get set on fire right after repairing it. It's harder to use this strategy on the Yamato, and easier on the Montana, with GK right in the middle. Also, you can always send back the gift and set her on fire as well, even though fire is 100% repairable, by combining fire damage with AP damage you'll be constantly dealing some damage and forcing the Conqueror to use heals and repairs as soon as they come off cooldown. If you happen to sink a Conqueror with fires, please make sure to say "Was it good for you too?", thank you.

Honestly, Yamato has the best time dealing with the Conqueror, because the brit is covered in 32mm armor.

On another note, think of Conqueror's armor to be like the GK. It's not that hard to citadel her at medium to long ranges.

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3 hours ago, Captain_Benevolent_Fair said:

The good thing about USN BBs is that they have a 20 second damage control. Now I haven't progressed at all in the US BB line to be honest, but from my experience facing the Conqueror on the GK and the Yamato, best way to deal with her is to wait until you're burning in 2-3 different places, and pay attention to when the Conq last fired. Her reload is around 26-27 seconds (with the reload upgrade, and most BBs use that upgrade, except the Montana, which has a better choice) so once she fires, you count the seconds and use your repair in a way that it will still be active by the time Conqueror fires another salvo, so you don't get set on fire right after repairing it.

Good call mentioning the timing trick. I happen to use the special "Damage Control Mod" that I got from ranked play that gives you an extra 8 seconds of immunity on my Alabama. It does wonders against RN BBs, since I'm often able to get a free "turn and run" in while they fire HE at an immune ship's broadside. It leaves your AA and secondaries in terrible shape, but given the rarity of CVs in high tier, it's worth considering if you have it. (On a side note, it is extremely irritating for those wretched CVs who like to force you to repair flooding before sending DBs exactly 21 seconds later.)

 

On 11/23/2017 at 10:46 PM, dEsTurbed1 said:

I hit he with torps causing a flood

 He repairs. I set 4 fires on him.

Dead conq.

Good idea if you happen to have torps on your USN battleship! :Smile_teethhappy: That being said, if you do happen to flood him with your Kii or Tirpitz it is super helpful to mention to the rest of your team that he hit repair. Especially when you consider he only gets about 25% torpedo damage reduction. 
 

On 11/23/2017 at 9:08 PM, TheKrimzonDemon said:

Close in and rip it apart with AP. Your armor is far better than hers is. More, you have effective secondaries, she doesn't. Your secs will burn her, your mains will shred her.

This is an okay idea, but I think you are highly overrating the MT's secondaries, and this is coming from a captain that runs a near secondary spec build. (Full range upgrade, but no manual control.) Even when the reload time is near 3 seconds, the 5"/54 does virtually nothing against saturated superstructures. In the time it takes to put enough shells on target to ignite a Conqueror he'll have already lit you on fire 2-3 times. 

About the AP though, I would be very interested to hear about people's experience with this. At ranges under 8km, I struggle to get more than 15K damage from broadside hits against a saturated Conqueror, generally aiming at the waterline. Should I consider dumping shells into that space between his superstructure and the 16" armor belt? 

3 hours ago, Captain_Benevolent_Fair said:

It's not that hard to citadel her at medium to long ranges.

The trouble is, with her concealment, you're lucky if you ever see her farther than 12km away. What have you all found her citadel's vulnerability in the 6-10km range to be? Also, to the best of my knowledge, she is immune to citadel hits when you're under 5km. No one has found that to be otherwise, right? 

 

One item which I think is also worth looking into is her transom stern. That big flat plate of 1.5in steel can't present much of an impediment to AP shells, but does it sit far enough away from that rotten 16" armor box that shells can pass underneath and into her citadel. Also, can someone with one of the special armor viewers clear something up for me? Using the in-game armor viewer, you can see Conqueror's bow and stern have sections of 9.5" and 9.8" sections of armor plating which extend well past the main armor belt, with slivers of 9" armor just beneath. The tapered section of main armor belt that sits above them is not evidently modeled, and is shown as regular 1.5" plating, just as it is on the Montana. What's the deal with these plates? Are these the secret weapon against being citadeled through the bow and stern? Do they count as part of the Torpedo Protection System? If so, that is a major issue, since it further reduces the already small area that a torpedo needs to hit her in order to do full damage, and in the case of air-dropped torpedoes, can drastically substantially reduce the chance of flooding. 

 

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I did the totp/ flood for thing on one in clan battles with my Shimmy,  he was not happy.

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You feed RN BBs AP.  They like to eat penetrations.  You may not get citadels, but they eat penetrations galore.  The problem with most people are they are panicking about fires and not keeping track that hits with BB AP net good pens on these ships.

 

US 16"/50 guns of Tier IX-X are fabulous guns, eclipsed only by Yamato 460mm rifles.  Unlike GK, Montana can effectively engage at range, so make use of these 12 guns and plant shells into Conqueror.

 

Conqueror's HP is the lowest of Tier X BBs.  The nerf to her consumables cooldown times are noticeable and nowhere near as forgiving as it used to be when the RN BB launch came out.

 

Focus Conquerors down.  HARD.  Make them pay for being out of position with their lowest HP pool of Tier X BBs.

 

Conqueror is also very vulnerable to DD attacks.  I love my Conqueror but when you get those scenarios that you know a DD is prowling near you, there is absolutely nothing you can do but run.  Linger around and you're dead.  The other worse part of a DD stalking Conqueror?  They negate one of her biggest advantages, amazing detection range and ability to "go dark" more easily than most BBs in High Tier.  That allows her to hide and recover, reposition at her leisure.  A stalking DD deprives her of that so people can keep shooting at her.  A DD should have no fear of Conqueror if it's isolated.  You should outrun and outspot her.  She has no catapult aircraft, no hydro like German BBs, no radar like Missouri.  Most Conq players will not even bother with Secondary Builds.  Some may not even have AFT, BFT slotted, much less SBM2.  Of all the Tier X BBs, she is the most vulnerable to DD attacks.  I'd rather take floating behemoth GK if I had to avoid a nearby DD.  GK at least has tools to help in that matter, Conqueror doesn't.

 

Edit:  Another thing, if your range and aim is good enough, aim at Conqueror's turret faces.  They are quite prone to being knocked out.  They are 381mm and vertical, so they are quite vulnerable in a brawl setting if one is caught in that situation.  Montana's turret face is angled and at 457mm.  Montana can trade shots and knock Conq's guns out.

Yamato:  Angled turret face at 650mm.

GK:  Slightly angled at 400mm.

Conqueror:  419mm, vertical at 381mm460mm, vertical at 456mm.  Conqueror's 457mm gun turret faces are tougher but almost nobody uses 457s.  When I play Conqueror, the turrets being ko'd are annoying.  It never happens to my Montana, Yamato.

 

It has to be emphasized, focus a Conqueror down when given the chance.  That low HP pool and long consumable CD is a weakness.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Edit:  Another thing, if your range and aim is good enough, aim at Conqueror's turret faces.  They are quite prone to being knocked out.  They are 381mm and vertical, so they are quite vulnerable in a brawl setting if one is caught in that situation.  Montana's turret face is angled and at 457mm.  Montana can trade shots and knock Conq's guns out.

 

Just today I actually knocked out two forward turrets in one salvo in my Missouri. I did a double take when I saw the little red icons pop up. Definitely going to consider trying this more often at close range. Also, excellent advice overall, Haze, appreciate the contribution.

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Some good reading above.  I had two that were in smoke (pre-smoke nerf) about 10km away, syncing their HE on my Yamato.  It hit so hard I got the citadel sound.

 

They seem a bit less effective now that we have dealt with them for awhile now.

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5 hours ago, rapier_ape said:

Just today I actually knocked out two forward turrets in one salvo in my Missouri. I did a double take when I saw the little red icons pop up. Definitely going to consider trying this more often at close range. Also, excellent advice overall, Haze, appreciate the contribution.

 

The flimsy turret faces were only noticed by a few people when RN BBs launched.  Everybody was spazzing about their HE but forget those turrets are easy to KO.  High Tier RN BB users can attest to this.

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