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Tigershark87

Question on super structures (very new player here)

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Hey Guys, 

 

I just started playing this game last month on recommendation from a friend. I'm really enjoying my time and have spent a little $ (premium account + some flags), but one thing that keeps bothering me is "super structures". I've done some research on it and get the general idea of it, but hoping more experienced players out there could provide some insights into how it works or is it 100% luck? 

 

For example: I was playing a battle last night in my Dunkerque (I think I got this free from my friends invite code, because I didn't buy it.. but not 100% sure) and I kept trying to shoot at this other battleship and my teammate was screaming in chat (ALL CAPS) about me not being able to aim properly at the superstructure. I thought I was aiming correctly based on the images I saw online, but I guess I wasn't :( 

 

Any helpful tips or knowledge would be really appreciative! 

Thank you everybody in advance :fish_happy:

Edited by Tigershark87

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The Superstructure is the part of the ship above the hull (usually structures between the gun turrets).  Basically the superstructure is a less armored part of a ship.  So if you're a cruiser or DD, fire HE or AP at the superstructure (of battleships) to do damage as your guns are not big/powerful enough to penetrate the hull armor.  If you're a BB, you do NOT want to aim at the superstructure (unless the target is bow on or running straight away) as your guns can penetrate the hull of ships for more damage.

 

TL;DR Superstructure is just an armor model in the game so aim for it if you cannot penetrate the hull armor.

Edited by Thunderstruck2016

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basically the brains of the ship, the building where the ship is operated from if this is more understanding. /;^_\\

700px-FiveParts.jpeg

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Watch those videos on how to play some battleships you have. Hope you can improve your game plays.

We are always glad to have new players and I hope you continue to enjoy the game.

 

 

 

 

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Another good way to practice is to enable the Training Room and take your ship in and practice hitting superstructures. If you want to know how to do this, PM me.

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I think he's actually asking how to aim. If you want big hits, aim for the belt near the waterline. Low as possible. That's where the machinery of a ship is. Its heart. A shot to the heart of the ship is crippling. 

You should only aim for superstructure if you're a small boat with no chance of punching bullets through the main belt. 

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If you have the flight time of the shells on with dynamic sights, keep in mind that firing at the tic mark for the shells with the full number will result in your shells landing further ahead of your target. Only if they are sailing at 30 knots flat will the shells land precisely in that circle.

 

Typically, the 5 tick mark is your standard aim point.

 

Second, from my experience, if you are firing while broadside, your rounds will typically land in an oblong circle that extends from stem to stern.

 

If you are firing a broadside while angled, however, the shell patterns tighten up.

 

Aiming depends on what ship it is, what line, and how heavy your guns are.

 

The Dunkerque has one of the better patterns because you don't have to angle or go broadside. However it's weapons are high velocity and break easy.

 

So, if you are closer than 13 kilometers, you can try breaking through the belt, especially if they are broadside.

 

However, it depends.

 

Waterline will try for citadels.

Halfway up the hull, you'll hit more belt, but might break through for more pen hits.

At the top of the hull, you'll likely overshoot, or impact the deck/superstructure, which may ricochet, or pen.

With the Dunkerque, you can use HE against their superstructure to light them on fire and also knock out secondary guns or AA mounts.

But I personally prefer AP because they can heal fire damage. They can't repair but 10-15 percent of AP damage.

 

I'm no expert with the Dunkerque, but this is my common goal as a battleship driver.

 

Edited by BrandonKF

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First off, just because some random guy is screaming at you in all caps doesn't mean you should listen to him (usually the opposite in fact)

 

However, where to aim is important. HE has less penetration than AP. It cannot usually penetrate the main belt of ship (unless you're a RN BB, but that's different). But what's the main belt. There are 3 parts to the side of the ship. The superstructure, upper belt, and main belt. The Belt armor, upper and lower, is the side of the ship. From the waterline to the main deck level. The superstructure is everything except the guns above the main deck. The Belt is usually divided into two parts. The lower, or main, belt armor is usually the biggest piece of armor on the ship, protecting the important parts that don't react well to bullets (OK, it's more complicated than that with turtleback, spaced, and citadel armor, but the idea is the same in the end). This generally extends from about the first gun turret to the last turret, from the waterline to about halfway up the side of the ship.

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1 hour ago, Rolkatsuki said:

 

700px-FiveParts.jpeg

On this picture (of the Yamato) the main belt goes from the waterline to about that line you see halfway up the side of the ship. If you use the armor viewer in port, you can see this easily

The Upper belt is what makes up the rest of the side of the ship. It's generally much thinner (not so much to protect).

 

OK, so what does this mean for shooting? The citadel is behind (and below) the main belt (obviously). Talking about BBs, only AP from other BBs broadside on can penetrate this. HE and cruiser AP (and the Dunkerque) cannot penetrate, so will shatter harmlessly. But if you penetrate it the citadel with AP, that's the massive damage numbers.

 

The upper belt will shatter HE, but most AP will penetrate. It won't hit the citadel, so it will do 33% damage - still very good damage.

 

Superstructure is very lightly armored. Most AP will overpenetrate, only doing 10% damage. HE does not overpen, so it will penetrate for 33% full damage, as well as fires.

 

OK. So the take away. HE, shoot at the superstructure for damage and fires. HE can also pen the deck armor, and IFHE even more so. So aim at the deckline with HE.

 

BB AP. If the target is showing broadside, AP at the waterline. Even if you don't hit the citadel the regular pens will still do a ton of damage. Angles, aim for the deck and superstructure. You can do some damage at least. Or switch to HE and hit his superstructure.

 

CA AP. Some cruisers (Moskva, high tier USN and KMS) can citadel some BBs at close range with AP. However, getting this close is not advised, as at that range the BB can just citadel you through the bow and you're done in one salvo. 8" guns can also penetrate the upper belt on BBs. This is much more reliable than HE for raw damage (superstructures saturate after a while). However, the BB usually has to be pretty broadside on for this to work. HE for angled targets also works well (unless you're a RN CL).

 

Against cruisers, BB AP can always citadel (even overpen sometimes against very light cruisers). Cruisers can citadel other cruisers, so load AP if you have a broadside cruiser (even DDs load AP against broadside cruisers). Otherwise, HE FTW. HE sets fires even if it shatters BTW.

 

What is boils down to is make sure you can penetrate what you're aiming at with the ammo you're using. In the Dunkerque scenario, if you had HE, you should have aimed at the deck (and it was a BB or an angled cruiser). If the target was well armored BB showing broadside, AP at the deck line. A lightly armored BB (Hood) AP against waterline. Broadside cruiser, AP for the citadels. I forget the penetration values for the Dunk, so I can't be more specific on what exactly you can penetrate. Maybe one of the Dunk players will chime in.

 

Finally, Armor pen and module saturation is probably the most complex mechanics in game. This is just an overview, if you want a detailed explanation: Take a day off, get comfortable, and prepare to read and think. Ask for the explanation on the forums, and dig through everything. There are some good videos (ichasegaming has a good one, for starters). Also, we don't know exactly how AP penetration works in game, so somethings are educated guesses.

 

Hope this helps, and Happy Thanksgiving.

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Welcome! Glad to hear you're enjoying the game. :Smile_great:

When in port check this out:shot-17_11.23_21_38.31-0319.jpg.355c6875a50e1fc6ec63b0b80169295b.jpg

If you click "Armor Layout" it will take you through all the sections of armor, their varying thicknesses and locations(ie Citadel or "Heart"/Vitals of the ship as someone previously said)

This is very important information when it comes to knowing where to aim vs X ships with Y ammo. I recommend that you check the ships you'll be using as well as facing as you progress upward through the Tiers.

Curious what the situation was where your friend was telling you to fire at the superstructure but... When firing upon a heavily armored ship, generally a BB, the Superstructure is where you want to aim with HE or lower caliber guns with AP. Maybe you were using HE rounds and they wanted you to burn the ship down?

Otherwise you always want to try to shoot the Citadel of any given ship(DDs do not have them - rule of thumb is to use HE vs them if possible <caveat: You usually want to clear what's already loaded in barrels instead of waiting X seconds for reload, missing a prime shot etc to just switch ammo> This comes with experience.).

In port view you can see where the Citadel sits below the waterline on some ships and slightly above in varying degrees on others. This is where you get maximum damage dealt. Remember: Always hit their Citadel, Never expose yours!

Best of luck to you!

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2 hours ago, AJTP89 said:

First off, just because some random guy is screaming at you in all caps doesn't mean you should listen to him (usually the opposite in fact)

 

However, where to aim is important. HE has less penetration than AP. It cannot usually penetrate the main belt of ship (unless you're a RN BB, but that's different). But what's the main belt. There are 3 parts to the side of the ship. The superstructure, upper belt, and main belt. The Belt armor, upper and lower, is the side of the ship. From the waterline to the main deck level. The superstructure is everything except the guns above the main deck. The Belt is usually divided into two parts. The lower, or main, belt armor is usually the biggest piece of armor on the ship, protecting the important parts that don't react well to bullets (OK, it's more complicated than that with turtleback, spaced, and citadel armor, but the idea is the same in the end). This generally extends from about the first gun turret to the last turret, from the waterline to about halfway up the side of the ship.

  Reveal hidden contents

On this picture (of the Yamato) the main belt goes from the waterline to about that line you see halfway up the side of the ship. If you use the armor viewer in port, you can see this easily

The Upper belt is what makes up the rest of the side of the ship. It's generally much thinner (not so much to protect).

 

OK, so what does this mean for shooting? The citadel is behind (and below) the main belt (obviously). Talking about BBs, only AP from other BBs broadside on can penetrate this. HE and cruiser AP (and the Dunkerque) cannot penetrate, so will shatter harmlessly. But if you penetrate it the citadel with AP, that's the massive damage numbers.

 

The upper belt will shatter HE, but most AP will penetrate. It won't hit the citadel, so it will do 33% damage - still very good damage.

 

Superstructure is very lightly armored. Most AP will overpenetrate, only doing 10% damage. HE does not overpen, so it will penetrate for 33% full damage, as well as fires.

 

OK. So the take away. HE, shoot at the superstructure for damage and fires. HE can also pen the deck armor, and IFHE even more so. So aim at the deckline with HE.

 

BB AP. If the target is showing broadside, AP at the waterline. Even if you don't hit the citadel the regular pens will still do a ton of damage. Angles, aim for the deck and superstructure. You can do some damage at least. Or switch to HE and hit his superstructure.

 

CA AP. Some cruisers (Moskva, high tier USN and KMS) can citadel some BBs at close range with AP. However, getting this close is not advised, as at that range the BB can just citadel you through the bow and you're done in one salvo. 8" guns can also penetrate the upper belt on BBs. This is much more reliable than HE for raw damage (superstructures saturate after a while). However, the BB usually has to be pretty broadside on for this to work. HE for angled targets also works well (unless you're a RN CL).

 

Against cruisers, BB AP can always citadel (even overpen sometimes against very light cruisers). Cruisers can citadel other cruisers, so load AP if you have a broadside cruiser (even DDs load AP against broadside cruisers). Otherwise, HE FTW. HE sets fires even if it shatters BTW.

 

What is boils down to is make sure you can penetrate what you're aiming at with the ammo you're using. In the Dunkerque scenario, if you had HE, you should have aimed at the deck (and it was a BB or an angled cruiser). If the target was well armored BB showing broadside, AP at the deck line. A lightly armored BB (Hood) AP against waterline. Broadside cruiser, AP for the citadels. I forget the penetration values for the Dunk, so I can't be more specific on what exactly you can penetrate. Maybe one of the Dunk players will chime in.

 

Finally, Armor pen and module saturation is probably the most complex mechanics in game. This is just an overview, if you want a detailed explanation: Take a day off, get comfortable, and prepare to read and think. Ask for the explanation on the forums, and dig through everything. There are some good videos (ichasegaming has a good one, for starters). Also, we don't know exactly how AP penetration works in game, so somethings are educated guesses.

 

Hope this helps, and Happy Thanksgiving.

Hi, 

 

Thank you for the very informative post, this was super helpful! I've actually only been using AP .. not sure if I need to switch between or not, but I seem to have the most luck just using AP for everything. 

 

The best game I've had was around 100k damage, and my average is around 50k, which I'm sure is pretty crappy compared to GOOD players who have much more experience than I do with the same ship of course. 

 

I will spend a few hours tonight just combing through all the messages on this topic, some wiki's and watch more videos to try and get a better understanding of what to do.. than tomorrow after work I'll get back on and play a few rounds to try and improve from last night. 

 

I hope you have a great Thanksgiving as well! 

 

Thanks,

Tiger

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4 hours ago, Tigershark87 said:

I'm really enjoying my time and have spent a little $ (premium account + some flags), but one thing that keeps bothering me is "super structures".

     Best decision you could make is buying premium time if you like ships and shooting at them.  You won't be frustrated by being short of credits, you have 3 instead of 2 mission slots for campaigns, bonus this and that.  Welcome aboard and happy hunting.

     Also, in the setting tab there's an option for sight, I think it is.  I use the dynamic because as you zoom in and out of the target the ticks stay the same.  It's easier for me to keep track of my target lead because the sight picture stays the same as you zoom.

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on unrelated note,  a 50 k avg. Damage is VERY good for a new player ( I only had 10 k, and after a year its only still ~29-30k overall) , the sever avg. is 50-51k so you're on a great start! ^^

 

Everyone else said everything I think its possible..., ignore random, rageing players in the chat , and welcome to WoWs and thank you for coming here looking for genuine help.

 

See you on the seas! :)

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, JB_24 said:

on unrelated note,  a 50 k avg. Damage is VERY good for a new player ( I only had 10 k, and after a year its only still ~29-30k overall) , the sever avg. is 50-51k so you're on a great start! ^^

 

Everyone else said everything I think its possible..., ignore random, rageing players in the chat , and welcome to WoWs and thank you for coming here looking for genuine help.

 

See you on the seas! :)

 

 

 

That's good to know - thanks :) 

 

Some games I do absolutely crappy.. like one game earlier this week I did 15k damage because I got triple cit'd early on.. so that was fun .. didn't last too long after that :( 

 

See you in battle 

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A Tip:  Completely ignore any blowhards that fill the chat window with their infinite wisdom.  Especially those that feel the need to use all caps.

 

Welcome to the game!

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6 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

A Tip:  Completely ignore any blowhards that fill the chat window with their infinite wisdom.  Especially those that feel the need to use all caps.

 

Welcome to the game!

That's true .. the guy just wouldn't let up.. guess he has too much time on his hands :/ 

Thanks for the welcome!

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There are trolls everywhere.  Some people just like to hear them selves cuss.  (Also a fair amount of adult beverage in this game, apparently.) 

Don't assume that the troll knows what he's cussing about.  Most of them don't.

 

Welcome.  Now, where can I blow you up?

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12 hours ago, iDuckman said:

There are trolls everywhere.  Some people just like to hear them selves cuss.  (Also a fair amount of adult beverage in this game, apparently.) 

Don't assume that the troll knows what he's cussing about.  Most of them don't.

 

Welcome.  Now, where can I blow you up?

Haha true.. good point :)  

 

I'm sure most of the people who troll are old enough to be my son's age (12). 

 

If you play Tier 6, you'll find me in my dunkerque :)   Greetings from Orlando, FL 

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20 hours ago, Tigershark87 said:

Hey Guys, 

 

I just started playing this game last month on recommendation from a friend. I'm really enjoying my time and have spent a little $ (premium account + some flags), but one thing that keeps bothering me is "super structures". I've done some research on it and get the general idea of it, but hoping more experienced players out there could provide some insights into how it works or is it 100% luck? 

 

For example: I was playing a battle last night in my Dunkerque (I think I got this free from my friends invite code, because I didn't buy it.. but not 100% sure) and I kept trying to shoot at this other battleship and my teammate was screaming in chat (ALL CAPS) about me not being able to aim properly at the superstructure. I thought I was aiming correctly based on the images I saw online, but I guess I wasn't :( 

 

Any helpful tips or knowledge would be really appreciative! 

Thank you everybody in advance :fish_happy:

Ships have armor of varying thickness.

If you are firing AP: When the Dunkerque is angled well against you, there is no point of aiming at the bow or turrets if you are firing anything smaller than 358mm guns at it. Anything below 358mm won't penetrate its bow and will likely bounce, which is why you need to aim for the superstructure. On the other hand, 358mm shell size and above can and WILL overmatch the bow armor and citadel the Dunkerque from the front/rear.

https://forum.worldofwarships.asia/topic/12415-overmatch-mechanics-which-bbs-benefit-extra-penetration-mechanics/

^^^ Explains the concept of overmatch, and which shell size is necessary to ignore the bow armor and citadel each ship from the front. Basically the minimum shell size needed to overmatch an enemy ship (any enemy ship) is anything greater than the enemy ship's (bow armor x 14.3). So, Dunkerque has a 25mm bow which means in order to overmatch it with AP shells, you need to be firing anything above (25x14.3) = 357.5mm. Any shell >358mm will citadel the Dunkerque from the front.

 

If you are firing HE, the rules are different: HE penetration is by default (Shell size / 6), with the exception of British battleships and German Battleships/Cruisers - all of which have increased HE penetration (Shell size / 4). So, when Dunkerques bow armor is 25mm, you will need HE shell of greater than (25 x 6) = 150mm in order to penetrate it (or >100mm if you are playing British battleships and German Battleships/Cruisers).

Edited by Ulthwey

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22 minutes ago, Ulthwey said:

Ships have armor of varying thickness.

If you are firing AP: When the Dunkerque is angled well against you, there is no point of aiming at the bow or turrets if you are firing anything smaller than 358mm guns at it. Anything below 380mm won't penetrate its bow and will likely bounce, which is why you need to aim for the superstructure. On the other hand, 358mm shell size and above can and WILL overmatch the bow armor and citadel the Dunkerque from the front/rear.

https://forum.worldofwarships.asia/topic/12415-overmatch-mechanics-which-bbs-benefit-extra-penetration-mechanics/

^^^ Explains the concept of overmatch, and which shell size is necessary to ignore the bow armor and citadel each ship from the front. Basically the minimum shell size needed to overmatch an enemy ship (any enemy ship) is anything greater than the enemy ship's (bow armor x 14.3). So, Dunkerque has a 25mm bow which means in order to overmatch it with AP shells, you need to be firing anything above (25x14.3) = 357.5mm. Any shell >358mm will citadel the Dunkerque from the front.

 

If you are firing HE, the rules are different: HE penetration is by default (Shell size / 6), with the exception of British battleships and German Battleships/Cruisers - all of which have increased HE penetration (Shell size / 4). So, when Dunkerques bow armor is 25mm, you will need HE shell of greater than (25 x 6) = 150mm in order to penetrate it (or >100mm if you are playing British battleships and German Battleships/Cruisers).

Thanks for the helpful tips! This was great. For reference I'm only AP shells .. I was told by a few people that using AP is best.. and I seem to do decent damage with them... but often I notice when I hit a ship it'll just do 970 damage .. so I guess that means my shells bounced?

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Look at the little tags that pop up on the right of your screen - they will show the results of your hits.  Penetrations, non-penetrations, bounces, over-penetrations ("It went clean through!")

 

The 'AP only' principle is not a good one.  It depends on the relationship between your shell size and the target's armor more than anything. AP is only effective if a) the shell penetrates and b) the armor hit is hard enough to trigger the delayed fuse so that the charge explodes inside the ship.  Non-pens, bounces, and over-pens, that won't happen.  So no big-time damage.  HE, though, causes (less) damage and fire.  To set fires, HE hits above the belt - esp. in the superstructure - are more effective.

BB against BB, use AP.

CRuiser or DD against BB - usually use HE (or torpedoes ;) ).

BB against smaller ship, it depends; for a DD and many CR use HE.

Of course, this is complicated by a BB's long reload time.  Yes, HE might be better, but is it better enough to switch?  Generally no.  Select HE but clear the breeches by firing what you have loaded.  And since BBs should prefer shooting BBs, sticking to AP in a BB will usually work.  But there's a lot more to it.

 

 

Edited by iDuckman

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3 hours ago, Tigershark87 said:

. but often I notice when I hit a ship it'll just do 970 damage .. so I guess that means my shells bounced?

 

That's an "overpen". Basically, the shell wasn't slowed enough by armor for the charge to go off before it exited the other side of the ship. Basically the damage from a chunk of metal going through the ship.

 

Broadside DDs and some cruisers will give your BB those, as well as superstructure hits on broadside BBs, as well as bow and stern hits on BBs with "all-or-nothing" armor. (most BBs from T6 and up are designed that way)

 

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Lots and lots of very good advice in this posting.. and a good question to get them fired up.  Well done!.

 

 

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