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Acaibaero

Graf Zepplin - what a joke

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Cruising in my FDG and 2 mins into the game two squadrons of GZ bombers come at me.  Evasive actions help?  Nope.  *Poof*!!! 84k-to-0 just like that.  Friggin' BullSquat

Get it out of the game and FIX IT!

Edited by Acaibaero
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Idk...

 

 

Every time I've faced one in my Enterprise or Shokaku (no matter which variation of the GZ), it's gotten stomped. It trades a lot of flexibility for that deletion ability. Its a very predictable CV to play against. I'm rather happy when I see that I'm against one.

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Were you isolated from other ships so you didn't have mutual AA?  Solo Battleships are the greatest gift a CV can ask for.

 

Did you have an AA Build?  Since you were in a German BB, I'm guessing no.

 

I don't know what else to tell you.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I want to say this:

 

When a Cruiser gets insta-deleted in a salvo by Battleships, "Git gud" or "Don't show broadsides" is often tossed at the Cruiser player.

 

When a Battleship gets insta-deleted, by air power in this instance, "This is overpowered" or "WG fix this!" is used.  When recommendations are made to sail with teammates, or if you hate CVs that much, adopt an AA build.  But that is often derided.  Why should a Battleship alter its playstyle, build for any threat?

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6 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I want to say this:

 

When a Cruiser gets insta-deleted in a salvo by Battleships, "Git gud" or "Don't show broadsides" is often tossed at the Cruiser player.

 

When a Battleship gets insta-deleted, by air power in this instance, "This is overpowered" or "WG fix this!" is used.  When recommendations are made to sail with teammates, or if you hate CVs that much, adopt an AA build.  But that is often derided.  Why should a Battleship alter its playstyle, build for any threat?

because battleship drivers are the least skill members of this community on average and are also the biggest they want their ship to never die so when WG releases something that is a good counter to battleships the majority over the community complaints

Edited by skull_122_steel

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Huh, I thought the joke was that the ship was first seen in July, abortively released in August, is still in test and will then have a 3-month exclusive period to current owners (meaning a balanced ship will be on sale sometime around February or so, merely 8 months after she was first shown.

Or that the German tree is getting a carrier in game before the British one.

 

Carriers working alone to target ships alone is par for the course.

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Yeah man, that sucks. I have only seen a few in my games, I was afraid because of all the CC videos, but I juked and only took minimal damage.

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8 minutes ago, mofton said:

Carriers working alone to target ships alone is par for the course.

 

Not specifically 'git-gud'-ing the OP, but this...

 

A Taiho; unopposed by whover the OP's CV driver was; (apparently,) could just as easily deleted a FDG in an alpha strike, and dang sure could do it by manipulating DoT and forcing out a DC, then attacking again. A Shokaku or Strike Lex could probably do it as well, though they would have a tougher time against the AA.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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So I should have an AA build for CVs, an anti-torp build for DDs, a secondary build for CV/Ls and BBs, etc... well, you pick one and invariably you face the other threats.  So it's a stupid argument.  And I've never said I have a problem with getting into a fight with a CV's planes and as a matter of fact I've had many in the past few days.  I don't have a problem with them coming at me 2 or 3 times to put me down with me taking a few of his planes with me.  I have an issue with an insta-delete from 8 planes. 

And I dare anyone to find me ranting about getting insta-deleted by a BB or by torps.  It happens.  But a BB has little it can do outside of a specific build, which if you understand German AA, it wouldn't make a difference.  Getting deleted by a bb or torps pretty much assumes you've put yourself in bad position.  In this case, I was barely out of the spawn.

And yea, I've played the game enough to understand group defense but that's not always doable because, you know, circumstances...

I don't even care if they take half my health (well, I do but I also get it) in a single bomb run, but a full-on delete is unreasonable.

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getting mass deleted by carriers in a BB is nothing new, especially german BBs since the introduction of the enterprise. also when you say bombers do you mean dive bombers or torp bombers? because if it was dive bombers well... hate to tell you this but the enterprise, and soon the entire american line from teir 7+ is going to be able to kick the crap out of BBs. If it was the DTW Bombers, then you should probably know that those things will never land a hit on a DD or cruiser. 

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19 minutes ago, Spartias said:

Idk...

 

 

Every time I've faced one in my Enterprise or Shokaku (no matter which variation of the GZ), it's gotten stomped. It trades a lot of flexibility for that deletion ability. Its a very predictable CV to play against. I'm rather happy when I see that I'm against one.

I think the issue is that no skill one shots shouldn't exist.  I watched flambass left click the first battleship he saw, get up to grab a glass of water, and come back to a dev strike.  Def aa doesn't stop it so cruisers can't even save you.  

Also I miss you.

 

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21 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Were you isolated from other ships so you didn't have mutual AA?  Solo Battleships are the greatest gift a CV can ask for.

 

Did you have an AA Build?  Since you were in a German BB, I'm guessing no.

 

I don't know what else to tell you.

I do. Don't bother with the German BBs anymore. They've been made obsolete in a number of ways.

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Just now, MountainManxDan said:

I think the issue is that no skill one shots shouldn't exist.  I watched flambass left click the first battleship he saw, get up to grab a glass of water, and come back to a dev strike.  Def aa doesn't stop it so cruisers can't even save you.  

Also I miss you.

 

 

Yeah that's definitely an issue for sure.

 

And man... I miss you too. Just couldn't take the mentality anymore. Anytime you want to div up just say the word.

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8 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

 

Not specifically 'git-gud'-ing the OP, but this...

 

A Taiho; unopposed by whover the OP's CV driver was; (apparently,) could just as easily deleted a FDG in an alpha strike, and dang sure could do it by manipulating DoT and forcing out a DC, then attacking again. A Shokaku or Strike Lex could probably do it as well, though they would have a tougher time against the AA.

Yes but that takes actual imputs and plane pathing while avoiding AA ships.  This version of Zep doesn't have to do that.  The reticle is round so all you do is left click a ship and boom dead.

Edited by MountainManxDan

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1 minute ago, w4spl3g said:

I do. Don't bother with the German BBs anymore. They've been made obsolete in a number of ways.

They aren't completely obsolete, I love them.

Then again they are the only BBs I have played on the live server.

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1 minute ago, Acaibaero said:

So I should have an AA build for CVs, an anti-torp build for DDs, a secondary build for CV/Ls and BBs, etc... well, you pick one and invariably you face the other threats.  So it's a stupid argument.  And I've never said I have a problem with getting into a fight with a CV's planes and as a matter of fact I've had many in the past few days.  I don't have a problem with them coming at me 2 or 3 times to put me down with me taking a few of his planes with me.  I have an issue with an insta-delete from 8 planes. 

And I dare anyone to find me ranting about getting insta-deleted by a BB or by torps.  It happens.  But a BB has little it can do outside of a specific build, which if you understand German AA, it wouldn't make a difference.  Getting deleted by a bb or torps pretty much assumes you've put yourself in bad position.  In this case, I was barely out of the spawn.

And yea, I've played the game enough to understand group defense but that's not always doable because, you know, circumstances...

I don't even care if they take half my health (well, I do but I also get it) in a single bomb run, but a full-on delete is unreasonable.

 

Your playstyle and build gives strengths and weaknesses.  Whatever route you choose, you live with it.  The issues you allow, you learn to prepare for or mitigate the problem.

 

I have an AA Gneisenau Build.  7.5km AA range, 93 AA rating at Tier VII, 96 with AA signal flag.  My ship is a "NO FLY ZONE" for CVs.  Yet this leaves several glaring weaknesses for my AA Gneisenau.

1.  I am not using a Secondaries Build to maximize a trademark asset of the German BB Line.

2.  I am not using ASM1 to tighten up Gneisenau's extremely wonky dispersion.

 

Do you see me on the boards complaining about how s--t Gneisenau's gunnery is?  How dangerous DDs become if they get close to me?  What can I do about that Amagi that's accurately pelting me and keeping away?

 

I don't complain.  I DEAL WITH IT.  I opted for certain strengths, allowing certain weaknesses.  For my Gneisenau's gunnery, I try to close range or just be patient, keep shooting, and the hits and damage come.  What I went for was strong AA with great range so that anyone within my AA aura was protected.  I have had DDs run to me to protect them from bomber threats.  It's what I went for.

===

German BBs have fabulous protection for surface engagements... But that leaves them open to air attack.  I guess that gives some justification to roll USN BBs, huh?

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Just now, MountainManxDan said:

Yes but that takes actual imputs and plane pathing while avoiding AA ships.  This veesion of Zep doesn't have to do that.  The reticle is round so all you do is left click a ship and boom dead.

is that the version without torps? just the one with dive bombers and fighters? if so I need to be more careful those things seem to be all over the place.

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Just now, Silver_kun said:

They aren't completely obsolete, I love them.

Then again they are the only BBs I have played on the live server.

Between the meta and WG's indirect nerfs they're pointless now. You won't live long enough to brawl, most of the other BBs you're going against have had their citadels buffed so they're the same turtle back you have only they have better guns, the AP bombs were custom made to [edited] over German BBs, Pan Asia will be out any day with deep water torps that are fast/stealthy/hard hitting and Germans have the worst torp defense and [edited] AA over all. HE spam is the name of the game and Germans have the worst and the least accurate. What are they good for? Padding other people's stats.

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33 minutes ago, Acaibaero said:

Cruising in my FDG and 2 mins into the game two squadrons of GZ bombers come at me.  Evasive actions help?  Nope.  *Poof*!!! 84k-to-0 just like that.  Friggin' BullSquat

Get it out of the game and FIX IT!

Yeah my roids are just bleeding for ya, considering all the DD's and Cruisers I've seen one shotted by BB's; time ya got some of it back.

Hope they give those AP bombs to every carrier in the game.

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Even as a CV player, who want's a E and a GZ, AP bombs are broken as hell, especially against German BB's, and especially depending on what version GZ it is. Saw a test II with between 10-12 fighters and bombers meaning it could actually take on USN fighters and win, and was stomping on anything it could hit with them, not sure the TB's ever made it through AA. My only hope with them adding AP bombs to USN tech tree CV's is that it gives them a door to nerf the things. I am all for the fact USN DB's in particular, second only to German, should be accurate and good at damaging, but it should be HE and fires, or reasonable AP bombs. More like if a Cruiser was citadel ling a BB, not another BB. Sure, dodge and weave can help a bit, especially against manual drop, a little vs auto, but RNG decides you get hit, you get hit hard.

 

I don't care if it's a CV, BB, Cruiser, or DD, unless you get a lucky detonation roll, slam 6+ torps in it, or put 4+ rounds in the citadel, nothing should be getting one shot killed from full health.

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2 minutes ago, w4spl3g said:

Between the meta and WG's indirect nerfs they're pointless now. You won't live long enough to brawl, most of the other BBs you're going against have had their citadels buffed so they're the same turtle back you have only they have better guns, the AP bombs were custom made to [edited] over German BBs, Pan Asia will be out any day with deep water torps that are fast/stealthy/hard hitting and Germans have the worst torp defense and [edited] AA over all. HE spam is the name of the game and Germans have the worst and the least accurate. What are they good for? Padding other people's stats.

Gneis is still a monster, especially AA build.

Tirpitz still acts as a sledgehammer.

Freddy still tanks and dishes it out.

And the ole Kurfurst has no issues doing all work with the team on its back.

 

I don't know why anyone would think they are bad.

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1 minute ago, w4spl3g said:

Between the meta and WG's indirect nerfs they're pointless now. You won't live long enough to brawl, most of the other BBs you're going against have had their citadels buffed so they're the same turtle back you have only they have better guns, the AP bombs were custom made to [edited] over German BBs, Pan Asia will be out any day with deep water torps that are fast/stealthy/hard hitting and Germans have the worst torp defense and [edited] AA over all. HE spam is the name of the game and Germans have the worst and the least accurate. What are they good for? Padding other people's stats.

I can't disagree, but I can't give up the aggressive playstyle I can sometimes get through them. I am almost done just need to get the GK and then I will be happy. 

 

Speaking of which, I want to know whether I should start  IJN BB, RN cruiser or Pan asian DD line, I can't decide. Not interested in RN BB's currently.

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15 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

 

Not specifically 'git-gud'-ing the OP, but this...

 

A Taiho; unopposed by whover the OP's CV driver was; (apparently,) could just as easily deleted a FDG in an alpha strike, and dang sure could do it by manipulating DoT and forcing out a DC, then attacking again. A Shokaku or Strike Lex could probably do it as well, though they would have a tougher time against the AA.

 

A bunch of people weren't around when IJN CVs had 3 TBs starting at Tier V and all the way through the line :Smile_hiding:  FFS, Zuiho used to delete teams by herself.

 

They weren't around for when USN CVs had a few ships with 2 TB fits to them.

 

AA was important back at launch with CVs being much stronger than they are now.  Despite how strong Yamato was back then compared to Montana, the justification for Montana was, "But she has great AA" while Yamato would get picked off by Midway and Hakuryu.  When people saw a USN Cruiser on their team, they were happy because of the AA.

 

Now we got people sailing alone and act offended that the CV picks off the loner.  Or recommend an AA Build, and people get offended.

 

There are a bunch of ships out there that have the foundation of a good AA build outside of USN BBs and Cruisers.  German BBs and RN BBs past a certain tier are such ships, but typical builds reinforce anything but AA.  Then people complain that their s--t AA build doesn't do anything to air attacks.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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