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BlazerSparta

Belgium and Hawaii: Lootboxes are gambling,

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1 minute ago, RipNuN2 said:

Already at least 2 threads on this.

 

 

 

Apparently my skim was too quick.

 

Feel free to delete or merge this one then.

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beat me to it...

1 minute ago, RipNuN2 said:

Already at least 2 threads on this.

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, issm said:

Get those Santa crates out quick! Need an Alabama!!!!

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I doubt anyone would get more than moderately bent out of shape about the loot crates in this game. 

 

If you had to buy hundreds of crates to cut a t10 grind down to manageable length, as opposed to basically having to pull a SC to get any upgrades, then yes. That's not what we have though.  

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Looked into it for tax purposes.

Buying anything in this game is like buying cigarettes.   Gee..  I spent $200 filling up that ash-tray..  Now how much is it worth?

So if I buy a dozen Santa-Crates and get a Musashi, Titanic, West Virginia, and Juneau...  What did I win? 

Cash value might be $200 to buy these separately - and that might be what the IRS focuses on. 

Reality is that I got nothing more than the 'permission' to play with these toys.  As far as I am concerned, I spent money and got nothing.

Even when selling your Kutuzov back, you don't get cash.  Money you spent is still gone.

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Let's not panic kids.  This hasn't even been litigated yet.  Depending on how far the industry wants to play this out, it could go on in the courts for a number of years.

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I don't think Christmas crates should count, based on the fact its essentially impossible to lose on them.

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8 minutes ago, Viper069 said:

Let's not panic kids.  This hasn't even been litigated yet.  Depending on how far the industry wants to play this out, it could go on in the courts for a number of years.

It isn't even a bill or a ruling yet. It is really just people speculating at this point. On a scale of 0-10 for gamers to be concerned about, this one is at a .5.

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and a couple corrections..  Hawaii didn't say this, a Congressman from Hawaii said they're gambling, and the State of Hawaii is going to look at way to stop their sales in Hawaiii, and will be talking with other state governments and legislators at the federal level.  Expect more out of Hawaii, including a statement from either their speaker for the state house or governor.

 

 

Belgium's gambling commission has said that EA's loot boxes meet the definition of gambling, they have not yet said they ARE gambling but the decision it's self is not in.  Going to be a few more days yet.  Also the rest of the EU hasn't swing in yet but expect it soon.  EU wide law changes have tended to start with initiatives in Belgium and the Netherlands which while not the most liberal of countries (gotta look past the surface gents!)  are seriously big on human rights, and the protection of children.

 

Still, it's a start.  And yes our "World of" games do have "loot Boxes" per say but they're nothing like what EA Activision/Atari or PWE/Cryptic Studio's pulls on it's customers.   It's not quite the issue it is for EA and the other main stream games and MMO's still I strongly suspect the WG can put it's self in "compliance" with any new laws or regulations with very little effort.  Tell you whats in them, give you the drop rates, do a ongoing inform and consent things and Warships, Tanks, and Warplanes should be fine.  The only thing WG does not do is actually tell us the drop rates and do inform and consent which would be a very simple thing for them to do.   And other then holiday things like last years Santa crates (which were a surprisingly good and wonderfully generous return on the dollar compared to the rest of the industry!)  the only way we get loot crates regular in this game is by earning our dayly crates, not by purchasing them.

 

Wargame net I suspect will make the changes to be in compliance with any new laws with no quibble to speak of.  I wouldn't be surprised to see them get pro active and put changes in before hand.  They've always been pretty strait up and honest with their customers (us!).  I just don't see that changing.

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1 minute ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Hawaii didn't say this, a Congressman from Hawaii said they're gambling, and the State of Hawaii is going to look at way to stop their sales in Hawaiii, and will be talking with other state governments and legislators at the federal level.  Expect more out of Hawaii, including a statement from either their speaker for the state house or governor.

I am just wonder does the Congressman from Hawaii consider the Hawaii lottery gambling?:cap_haloween:

I know here in Ohio I have seen people spend a whole lot more on lottery tickets, than I would on WoWs (No Offense to WG).

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What about real-world equivalent, like trading card games?  If you buy a booster pack for Magic: The Gathering or Pokemon or whatever, you could wind up with a card with a resale value of much more than what the pack cost.  More likely you will get nothing of significance, though.  Is that gambling?

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Australia too has declared it gambling. Loot boxes can not die fast enough, good riddance.

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43 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

I don't think Christmas crates should count, based on the fact its essentially impossible to lose on them.

 

If that were the case then casinos would just have to give some paltry 'prize' with each gambling transaction to make it 'not' gambling, and thus not regulated by those laws.  Be assured the 3% rake would still be active however.  The laws need updating, where the finer points end up... we'll see.  Generally, I disagree with games being used as paid for half products that are a platform for even more transactions so that the user can fully experience the product.  The 'Loot Box' was a way to compel the user to spend more to either not play the game, the 'we're saving you time argument', or have an advantage over non-premium players.  The industry is pushing the envelope on acceptable business practices in my opinion.

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On 11/22/2017 at 10:42 AM, Chaos_EN2 said:

I am just wonder does the Congressman from Hawaii consider the Hawaii lottery gambling?:cap_haloween:

I know here in Ohio I have seen people spend a whole lot more on lottery tickets, than I would on WoWs (No Offense to WG).

 

 

Thats stupidly assumptive.  Anyone who doesn't think that state lotto's are gambling needs to be kept away from sharp objects and important decisions because if the ability to perform critical thought is THAT Fail.. yea.. just not a good idea ok?

 

Hawaii has a lottery ?  I didn't know they had one... and if they do, it IS considered gambling and children are NOT allowed to play it.  (like show me photo ID kid!) I assume it's the stardard balls bouncing in a container slammed with air jets for the most random possible distribution  for the pick number lotto, and then scratchers for the rest of it which have a fixed prize payout..(the scratching part is for entertainment.. the "reveal" they call it) ..Retail stores purchase scratcher tickets in a sealed container  complete.  And they pay the cost of the scratchers prize pool plus a little extra.  They typically make $0.05 per scratcher ticket sold over and above purchase costs and prize payouts.  Scratchers are not big money makers but they are a steady source of income for retailers.   

 

Lets make another thing clear also, and thats the difference between "loot boxes" crates etc and Lotto scratchers.

 

Scratchers have a fixed payout over the printed series.  Loot boxes in games are RNG driven.  You just don't know what your going to get, or if your even going to get anything worth while.  a run of lotto scratchers of say 5,000 scratcher tickets sold for $1.00 each will typically have a total prize payout of $4,500 or there abouts... it will NOT have a payout greater then the retail cost of purchasing the ticket run (sold SEALED in full runs) which translates to a gross profit of $ 0.10 per ticket sold, and typically MUST be redeemed where purchased.  The gross earnings are split between the State/lotto vendor and the retailer evenly.. so both the state and the retailer are going to make $250.00 each with the state absorbing the cost of printing and distribution at the wholesale level and the retailer absorbing service costs and overhead to keep the items in stock.   And retailers are monitored to ensure ALL tickets from a run are sold, and that they've not tried to pull a fast one on their scratcher buyers.  The thing is Retailers involved in state lotto sales are regulated and monitored, as are Casino's, Card rooms, Bingo halls, charity fund raising drawings to ensure fairness, and transparency.

 

The online MMO gaming industry is NOT regulated and monitored which leaves it wide open for unscrupulous profiteering.

and unlike lotto scratchers loot boxes have the drop rate/reward payout constantly undergoing manipulation to drive micro transaction sales. EA, Activision Blizzard etc all DO NOT PUBLISH the odds of getting any one particular result..especially EA (and PWI and affiliates outside of the PRC)  and theres a reason for that.  It's so they can "adjust" the payouts to drive sales up to and including giving FALSE reports on "winners" (Cryptic studio's is especially bad at this.  A person I know had their name pop up on screen in STO announcing they'd "won" a tier 6 ultra rare star ship.. which was interesting in that they were not online at the time.. Screen shots were taken and submitted.. they gave him the ship on the condition that he sign a DNA.. yea, Honesty?  yea think again.. it's a racket and quite frankly I'm of the opinion that there are a bunch of corporate exectives need to be prosecuted under RICO, fraud conspiricy laws (racketeering and influence).  Very very dodgy practices.

 

And just as an a side salute and kudo's to Wargame .net and last years holiday "santa" crates. and the GENEROUS  payouts.. very generous.. way way way generous...feel free to do it again this year, I have money waiting!

Just as long as you do it the exact same way.  The payout from those loot boxes make the current "Black Friday" sales (which are also insanely generous COMPARED TO THE NORMAL PRICE OF ITEMS) look a tad um.. well.. yea...a better return on your customer dollars then even a "Black Friday" sale. which is seriously saying something about the wargame net corporate mindset and their determination to treat their customers with respect and FAIRLY.    Which is why I have WG net products installed on my computer, and Cryptic Studio's Star Trek online NO longer on my computer (And I purchased a life time sub for that game way back when..  I was such a sucker!  Still pissed at myself about it..)

 

TL_Warlord_Roff sends

 

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Best buy on Christmas is the discounted 360 day premium time. Although, the containers were very good to me last year premium ship wise.

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