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Manipulative Match Making

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Well... after 6000+ games and upto 55% win rate in random game mode, i am now frequently on these long 6 to 10+ loss streaks and back to 54% win. Statistically or mathematically for random play mode (other than the usual tier match making) these 6 or more loss streaks are actually very very unlikely. And it really takes the fun out of the game. Actually enormously frustrating... One way this can happen if they match me with 45% players (or even less than <45% and put some >55% players with me) in order to balance the average win rate to about 50% on my team, with the consequence that the opposing more balanced teams on average do better. On top they may skew on captain skills as well, which makes it worse when you are an experienced player.

 

Anybody else experiencing the same?

 

If WOWS game makers are spending time on this forum... Why do you guys like to manipulate this? This is taking the joy out of the game for me. Random should be random, beside matching overall tiers and have them banded at max 3 tier levels.

 

Have a good day all    

Edited by Duke_of_York_
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It's not that unlikely statistically. Take a statistics course for more insight. There is one variable that is the same in every game you play and it sits behind your computer. Focus on that one variable and your long term trends can improve.

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The dude who posted before me is correct.

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Yeah....no. 

Nobody's trying to screw you over with MM. That would just be silly, especially in the way you've described. Because, if they're intentionally placing worse players on your side just to sabotage your winrate, what about the winrates of those worse players? 

It's just chance. There's no hidden program or anything. The only way to overcome it is for you to get better, not to hope that the MM gets better. Just keep at it. Don't give up and all that.   

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1 minute ago, RivertheRoyal said:

Yeah....no. 

Nobody's trying to screw you over with MM. That would just be silly, especially in the way you've described. Because, if they're intentionally placing worse players on your side just to sabotage your winrate, what about the winrates of those worse players? 

It's just chance. There's no hidden program or anything. The only way to overcome it is for you to get better, not to hope that the MM gets better. Just keep at it. Don't give up and all that.   

It would make sense for MM to pair poor players with good ones.  The lower-skilled ones would get carried to victory on occasion, while the skilled ones would get sandbagged.

 

That is, of course, if we accept the idea that MM actively tries to drag people either up/down to a 50% WR, which is something I've never seen proven.

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On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 4:50 PM, RipNuN2 said:

It's not that unlikely statistically. Take a statistics course for more insight. There is one variable that is the same in every game you play and it sits behind your computer. Focus on that one variable and your long term trends can improve.

This.  Your understanding of Statistics is flawed if you think streaks like that cannot happen even in something as simple as dice rolls, but especially in something as dynamic as an online game with thousands of players.  Even without that, there are a lot of factors that are purely dependent on you.  Move up tiers, your win rate will generally suffer initally.  Move from a fully upgraded ship to a stock ship, your win rate will suffer.  Have a bad day or week, your win rate will suffer.  Not quitting for the day or not take a break when it is obvious you are losing more than you are winning, and your win rate will suffer.  And on and on and on.

The truth is, streaks like those you mention are not just possible; they are inevitable, even for good players.

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Can I ask how you know what winrate % each player has ornate you just judging them by how they play?

 

The reason behind this question is because in WoT XVM has made games unbearable. While some may argue against this there are many times that you’ll read in chat “gg MM” or “another s@&t team” or “another loss” before the game has even gotten started because people look at their teams stats ... and give up!! I’d youre using a stat tracker it may be that it’s making it worse on yourself because you see the stats of the enemy and compare it to those on your team making you make different decisions than you might (hard push/flank/damage farm) has you thought you had a “fighting chance” before the game started.

 

Just a possiblility

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41 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

There is one variable that is the same in every game you play and it sits behind your computer.

The only thing behind my computer is a brick wall. No wonder I lost those games. Bloody wall! :Smile_izmena:

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49 minutes ago, RivertheRoyal said:

Yeah....no. 

Nobody's trying to screw you over with MM. That would just be silly, especially in the way you've described. Because, if they're intentionally placing worse players on your side just to sabotage your winrate, what about the winrates of those worse players? 

It's just chance. There's no hidden program or anything. The only way to overcome it is for you to get better, not to hope that the MM gets better. Just keep at it. Don't give up and all that.   

Not true.

If you're already pretty good (like the 54-55% WR the OP claims), you can division up with other good players and usually do better than your solo WR.

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You have stumbled onto one of WG's dirty little secrets, OP, the MM that intentionally favours the one team over the other, aka the victims.

 

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36 minutes ago, Bravo4zero said:

Can I ask how you know what winrate % each player has ornate you just judging them by how they play?

 

The reason behind this question is because in WoT XVM has made games unbearable. While some may argue against this there are many times that you’ll read in chat “gg MM” or “another s@&t team” or “another loss” before the game has even gotten started because people look at their teams stats ... and give up!! I’d youre using a stat tracker it may be that it’s making it worse on yourself because you see the stats of the enemy and compare it to those on your team making you make different decisions than you might (hard push/flank/damage farm) has you thought you had a “fighting chance” before the game started.

 

Just a possiblility

There is a program out there that does NOT run within the game that can tell you info about your current game's teams and their stats, IIRC.  Don't remember the name.  Something with MM in it.

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1 minute ago, aethervox said:

You have stumbled onto one of WG's dirty little secrets, OP, the MM that intentionally favours the one team over the other, aka the victims.

 

This is nonsense.

It's like MM is only "random" if it produces two equally skilled teams.  But if it dares to randomly produce two teams of unequal skill, it must be intentional!!!  

Take off your tin foil hat, for crying out loud, Aether!!!  :Smile-_tongue:

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Not true.

If you're already pretty good (like the 54-55% WR the OP claims), you can division up with other good players and usually do better than your solo WR.

 

Eh, I mostly play solo, and assume OP does as well. 

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29 minutes ago, RivertheRoyal said:

 

Eh, I mostly play solo, and assume OP does as well. 

River, that's all well and good.  I do as well.

But the reality is that you can, if you so choose, play in divisions and it's a pretty well established fact that good players playing in a division with other good players will almost certainly end up winning more often than if they were playing solo, for a couple of reasons.

1. You're guaranteeing that you've brought two more good players to your team that MM may not have otherwise included.  And even if the two or three of you played without any coordination, your team would still be a little better off for having more good players.

2. If you are working together, particularly with voice comms, your chances of affecting the outcome of the battle seem to go way up, unless of course the other team has a similarly skilled or more skilled division doing the same thing.

 

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53 minutes ago, aethervox said:

You have stumbled onto one of WG's dirty little secrets, OP, the MM that intentionally favours the one team over the other, aka the victims.

 

Nailed it.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

There is a program out there that does NOT run within the game that can tell you info about your current game's teams and their stats, IIRC.  Don't remember the name.  Something with MM in it.

 

Thanks for the info mate. I won’t use the program but was interested if there was one similar to the xvm stats in WoT. I used XVM in WoT but mostly to watch as the predictated result was negated as often the team with the high win-chance became complacent because they get sure of the win. As I said, some gave up immediately if it predicted something like 27% win-chance. For me it only spurned me on to try even harder to win!

 

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Earlier in my boats career at the 2,200 game mark, I went on a long losing streak that dropped my win rate a whole 1%.  It was an 800 game streak, playing beneath 50% for many months.  It wasn't match making, it was me grinding 9 separate lines and coming to the tier 6/7/8 inflection point at the same time and running ships with stock modules on all those lines.  The solution was to stop grinding 9 separate lines and focus on 2 or 3 at most, while liberally playing premium ships that I enjoyed and was able to win at a 55-65% rate in.

I still have awful days where I am at 30% for 10 matches and get up and walk away.  The next day I might win 11 in a row ( happened last weekend in fact ).  It's not Wargaming, they are not that diabolical, it's just a bunch of choices that you control and some others that you don't, that add up to a losing streak.  Play a different game for a while, then when you come back, start off slowly playing 3-5 matches a day until you get your mojo back. 

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lol everyone clames MM is broken when games dont go their way, but shut up when they are purple for a few weeks and are having blowouts. Will you claim it is broken when you get games where you and your team curve stomp the enemies?

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

There is a program out there that does NOT run within the game that can tell you info about your current game's teams and their stats, IIRC.  Don't remember the name.  Something with MM in it.

However that only gives stats for the ship they are playing, not overall w/r.

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1 hour ago, Bravo4zero said:

 

Thanks for the info mate. I won’t use the program but was interested if there was one similar to the xvm stats in WoT. I used XVM in WoT but mostly to watch as the predictated result was negated as often the team with the high win-chance became complacent because they get sure of the win. As I said, some gave up immediately if it predicted something like 27% win-chance. For me it only spurned me on to try even harder to win!

 

The program is called "Matchmaker Monitor", BTW.  I won't give out the link, since I don't want to risk and trouble.

 

50 minutes ago, MountainManxDan said:

However that only gives stats for the ship they are playing, not overall w/r.

Yes, now that you mention it, I think that you're correct.

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I'm not sure this is the right stat to obsess over.  My win rate in the Atlanta is 29 battles out of 72 played (40%), but among my cruisers it's the one that has the highest average experience points per battle (814).  My other teir VII cruiser is the Yorck, and my win rate is better at 55 out of 117 (47%), but my average experience is only 719.  My best cruiser for win rate is the Kuma (112 out of 214, or 52%), and my average xp is only 588.  Of course, it's only a tier IV, so that's probably part of it.

And I've had games where I'm on the winning side but played horribly, and other games I've lost where I've played brilliantly.  So looking the win/loss ratio of your team may not tell you much about how the game will turn out.

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There is one thing about matchmaking that I don't understand.  Why is there often an imbalance in radar ships?  I was in a game yesterday where red had 4 radar ships and we had 2.  It seems to me that their should be an effort to balance the quantity of radar ships.

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:50 AM, PigBot50 said:

There is one thing about matchmaking that I don't understand.  Why is there often an imbalance in radar ships?  I was in a game yesterday where red had 4 radar ships and we had 2.  It seems to me that their should be an effort to balance the quantity of radar ships.

It's simple.  MM doesn't pay attention to which ships do or do not have radar when forming teams.

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