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Mister_Tanman

Any reason to have AA fire control buff on a tier 10?

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My commander on my tier 10 RN cruiser is at 16 points. Was thinking of getting the AA fire control. But, I rarely see a CV in a high tier game. So, Im thinking of swapping him out to my leander. Figure the AA control will get more use there.

 

Thoughts?

 

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Then you wish you had it when you get a match with tier 10 CVs.

But that's how it goes when deciding to spec AA or not.

 

For me it's always a guarantee when I take off AA, the CVs will show up in my matches. :Smile_sad:

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The effectiveness of Hak against a singled out, non-AA spec Minotaur is pretty hilarious.

As in RIP Mino

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I use manual AA on my Hindenburg so I can run the hydro instead of defensive AA. It's nowhere near as effective but still very very strong.

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

The effectiveness of Hak against a singled out, non-AA spec Minotaur is pretty hilarious.

As in RIP Mino

Hak against most anything except a Full HP AA cruiser is usually RIP target. It's one of the few things that truly scares my Missouri.

 

OP, RN BBs don't have great AA. Chances are the CV will get you if he wants you whether you have Manual AA or not. It's probably better to spec for survivability/concealment and rely on teammates (don't laugh) for AA support. Stick close to a cruiser, that's still an option.

 

Also, with the first part of the CV rebalance coming in the next patch, expect to see an increase in CVs. Just something to keep in mind.

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Well its not fun play in a TX with cvs in this days, so whatever, its your decision, you gonna get 1 in 10 matchs a cv....

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If a Graf Zeppelin can already nuke my non-AA spec Montana with AP dive bombers, I shudder to think what the reworked 2/2/2 Midway is capable of. If I didn't need it for CW, my Montana would be running a full AA spec build. General rule of thumb vs CVs is that if you don't have DFAA or any AA skills, the CV can delete you with ease if they're competent.

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With AA and CV spotting mechanics getting reworked later, it's not clear what exactly AA spec will be worth in the future either.

 

Carriers are already so rare there's little point running AA builds unless want to gimp your MB or survivability or torps every match in the hope the 1/10 CV comes after you first.

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As with any builds, it is a process of Pro's and Con's.  You already knew the answer to this question, OP.  The question is if you can live with it regardless of the route you take.

 

An AA Spec Minotaur shreds planes left and right, up and down, from Sunday thru next Sunday.  But CVs are extremely rare and Tier X CVs are among the least played ships in the **ENTIRE** game.

 

A Non-AA spec Minotaur in a CV match is dogfood when a CV comes knocking.  You can hide in your piddly smoke all you want, but when Hakuryu, Taiho want a Non-AA Minotaur dead, you're dead.  Zao has terrible AA for a Tier X but she at the very least has Defensive Fire to panic the bombers.  Minotaur doesn't have DF to do even that.  Minotaur with no AA Spec is D-E-A-D when a CV comes looking.  And yes, people can preview stats in the Team Members list and tell if you are AA spec or not.

 

You can go Non-AA spec, it's actually very sensible.  Just don't come crying on the forums when Hakuryu deletes you through your feeble AA and piddly little smoke pattern.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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42 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

RN BBs don't have great AA.

 

So, 1422 DPS max AA build, with the shortest range guns without AFT and he range mod being 3.5 km, 5 km with, max attack aircraft HP is 2560, that's 55% chance to down a plane per second, on your own in open ocean. Montana, at the same range, does 1355. The ship that is supposed to be AA king of BB's, needs the planes in 20 mm range to beat it in DPS meaning basically, DB's and point blank manual drops briefly. So I would say they have pretty damned good AA. It actually out DPS's Minotaur, albeit Mino has better range, and that thing can melt planes. 

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8 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

 

So, 1422 DPS max AA build, with the shortest range guns without AFT and he range mod being 3.5 km, 5 km with, max attack aircraft HP is 2560, that's 55% chance to down a plane per second, on your own in open ocean. Montana, at the same range, does 1355. The ship that is supposed to be AA king of BB's, needs the planes in 20 mm range to beat it in DPS meaning basically, DB's and point blank manual drops briefly. So I would say they have pretty damned good AA. It actually out DPS's Minotaur, albeit Mino has better range, and that thing can melt planes. 

 

High Tier RN BBs have the foundation for good AA.  But what I have found is that almost none of them spec for it.

 

1.  A higher premium is paid to survival skills in a RN BB.

2.  RN BBs have s--t Secondaries, so even less incentive for having BFT and / or AFT.

3.  RN BBs highly prefer ASM1 to leverage their main battery.

 

So without AFT, AAGM2, the AA is pretty darn worthless even on Conqueror.  Also, Short Range AA aura is "Too Late AA."  High short range AA DPS is meaningless when it really starts taking away planes AFTER they drop their ordnance on you.

 

Edit:  It's just like with German BBs.  For Tier VII on, they have the foundation for some really good AA possibilities, but since it's typically all about Secondaries, that AA potential is almost never realized.  Gneisenau is the textbook example.  With an AA Build she can reach 7.5km with 93 AA rating, powerful AA to swat even Tier IX planes down.  But nobody specs her for AA except for a few crazies like me, and so Gneisenau gets picked off by CVs like any other BB.  She can still shoot some planes down like that, but not until the torps and bombs have already dropped on her.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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9 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

High Tier RN BBs have the foundation for good AA.  But what I have found is that almost none of them spec for it.

 

1.  A higher premium is paid to survival skills in a RN BB.

2.  RN BBs have s--t Secondaries, so even less incentive for having BFT and / or AFT.

3.  RN BBs highly prefer ASM1 to leverage their main battery.

 

So without AFT, AAGM2, the AA is pretty darn worthless even on Conqueror.  Also, Short Range AA aura is "Too Late AA."  High short range AA DPS is meaningless when it really starts taking away planes AFTER they drop their ordnance on you.

 

Edit:  It's just like with German BBs.  For Tier VII on, they have the foundation for some really good AA possibilities, but since it's typically all about Secondaries, that AA potential is almost never realized.  Gneisenau is the textbook example.  With an AA Build she can reach 7.5km with 93 AA rating, powerful AA to swat even Tier IX planes down.  But nobody specs her for AA except for a few crazies like me, and so Gneisenau gets picked off by CVs like any other BB.  She can still shoot some planes down like that, but not until the torps and bombs have already dropped on her.

 

If you opt to not have BFT and the AA mod in slot 3 yeah, like any other ship DPS drops, but still to the point, if someone is looking at manual AA, they are likely building AA. Also "Short range" is the 20 MM guns that even with AFT and range mod barely if even hit 3 km, closer to 2.9 with is around the range of auto torp drop, it's why any time I bring up AA I basically ignore it, anything under 25 mm guns really, as those and up have a minimum range about 3.5 km. Say they don't take slot 3 but have BFT and AFT as skills on top of whatever, can still get about/over 1000 DPS which is still around I think 40% with a range of over 6 km on the DP and 4.2 I think on the 40 mm guns. Which is still pretty lethal, especially with the effective Nerf USN is getting to it's TB's because yes it gets 2 but they are significantly weaker. I also find UK BB secondaries decent considering, obviously not German BB's level, but good enough when someone gets close.

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11 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

 

So, 1422 DPS max AA build, with the shortest range guns without AFT and he range mod being 3.5 km, 5 km with, max attack aircraft HP is 2560, that's 55% chance to down a plane per second, on your own in open ocean. Montana, at the same range, does 1355. The ship that is supposed to be AA king of BB's, needs the planes in 20 mm range to beat it in DPS meaning basically, DB's and point blank manual drops briefly. So I would say they have pretty damned good AA. It actually out DPS's Minotaur, albeit Mino has better range, and that thing can melt planes. 

I screwed up, I thought he was asking about the other BBs. Was too tired to read last time.

The Conqueror is ridiculous (and OP), and it's AA is very good. However, IMO it would be better to spec for survivability and stealth, and rely on team for AA support. If you do spec though, it's going to be a nasty shock to the CV.

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