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Taichunger

More Data Showing why the Conk is not so good

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  All PvP WR   Solo Win % %battles  
Conq 96,578 51.04%   70,450 49.36 72.94  
Yamato 1,305,040 50.85%   1,001,378 49.73 76.73  
GK 709,796 50.79%   555,717 50.08 78.29  
Montana 1,110,603 49.38%   889,559 48.20 80.09  
               
  2-ship wr% %2div   3-ship wr% %3div
Conq 12,935 52.16 13.30   13,193 58.90 13.66
Yamato 164,630 50.47 12.61   139,032 59.36 10.65
GK 85,586 50.12 12.05   68,493 57.41 9.64
Montana 116,099 49.59 10.45   104,945 59.20 9.44

 

*Data taken from WarshipsToday, today, NA server, overall games. In Panels 2, 3, and 4, the first column is the #of battles played in that configuration, the second is the win rate in %, and the third is the percentage of battles played in that mode.

I've been saying that Conk's win rate is inflated because it is divisioning, so I thought I'd show that with numbers. This data is from the NA server today. Note that Conk is the third worst performer in Solo battles. Why is it doing well in overall win rate? Because Conk players play the lowest proportion of battles solo. Conks are divisioned in 2- and 3-ship divisions more often than the other T10 BBs -- smart Conk players quickly learned two things: (1) fire AP and (2) be divisioned. Why is the Montana the worst overall WR performer? Because it is divisioned the least, a fine display of American individualism. Note that Monty is second in WR in triple divisions, but it is in such divisions much less than Conk, roughly just 3/4s of Conk's rate of 3-ship divisions. Bring two friends when you play Monty and win! 

 

What cries out for explanation is the Conk's performance in 2-ship divisions vs 3-ship (why is it markedly better than the others in 2-ship but third in 3-ship?) and why is there such a massive gap in 2-ship division win rates? Inquiring minds want to... inspire popcorn .gif posting.


PS: In two week overall data, Conk is third in win rate

Yam: 50.94%

GK: 50.28%
Conk: 50.13%

Monty 49.99%

As many of us expected, its win rate is falling over time. It is also now third in 2-ship and 3-ship divisions, so the inflated divisioning numbers will also vanish. Eventually Conk will... recede, because it is difficult to carry in Conk. 

Edited by Taichunger
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Conqueror might be overpowered if people tried to farm wins instead of damage.

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16 hours ago, Business6 said:

Conqueror might be overpowered if people tried to farm wins instead of damage.

 

Yeah, I think the reason people feel it is OP is because it is so annoying to play against, just one fire after another. It's one of several very annoying ships, including Minotaur and the buffed Des Moines ROF, that have significantly degraded high tier play. WG still hasn't realized they aren't improving playability and enjoyability by making ships more destructive. 

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Just now, Taichunger said:

 

Yeah, I think the reason people feel it is OP is because it is so annoying to play against, just one fire after another. 

 

Agreed.  I certainly don't like when they shoot at me but I do like shooting back at them, lol.

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8 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

 

Yeah, I think the reason people feel it is OP is because it is so annoying to play against, just one fire after another. It's one of several very annoying ships, including Minotaur and the buffed Des Moines ROF, that have significantly degraded high tier play. WG still hasn't realized they aren't improving playability and enjoyability by making ships more destructive. 

I dont get why the only thing people care about is damage.  Damage in games, and not just WOWS, is so inflated, nothing lasts 2 seconds under fire.  People dont want to have to employ skills and ability over the long run, just high [edited]damage to delete things quickly....makes for boring gameplay. 

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Thanks for the data Taichunger, and on point analysis. 

Conk's advantage, setting fires and strong HE, doesn't win battles like ap does. Farming fire damage gives the Conk big damage numbers, but inflicting damage that can heal back doesn't move a team towards victory like ap damage does.

I think that's pretty much the crux of it.

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5 minutes ago, sbcptnitro said:

The stats are weighed down by the fact that I still play it.

Are you lemekillmeisters alt account sir? :Smile_smile:

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Just now, BiggieD61 said:

Are you lemekillmeisters alt account sir? :Smile_smile:

Nope. I'm way worse.

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I love catching cruisers who think just cause you been burning BBs and one shotting DDs with HE that you forgot where the 2 key is.

Easiest ship to play

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58 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

 

Yeah, I think the reason people feel it is OP is because it is so annoying to play against, just one fire after another. It's one of several very annoying ships, including Minotaur and the buffed Des Moines ROF, that have significantly degraded high tier play. WG still hasn't realized they aren't improving playability and enjoyability by making ships more destructive. 

 

Oh please. You can't possibly be crying about the 6 to 5.5 second reload change on the Des Moines.   It was a nothing change.

 

Sure it's 9% more dpm, but here is the the thing. If the Des Moines is in close and applying that dpm you already lost.

 

At most it might let you take one less shot from whatever it is that potatoed into the death zone.

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

 

Yeah, I think the reason people feel it is OP is because it is so annoying to play against, just one fire after another. It's one of several very annoying ships, including Minotaur and the buffed Des Moines ROF, that have significantly degraded high tier play. WG still hasn't realized they aren't improving playability and enjoyability by making ships more destructive. 

I feel that having ships at high tier that can sail around broadside and not be punished is degrading play, they only have one line left to potato proof and that is izumo and yamato, no reason they have the only citadels that can easily be hammered on.

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

 

Yeah, I think the reason people feel it is OP is because it is so annoying to play against, just one fire after another. It's one of several very annoying ships, including Minotaur and the buffed Des Moines ROF, that have significantly degraded high tier play. WG still hasn't realized they aren't improving playability and enjoyability by making ships more destructive. 

 

You want to know the funny thing?

 

The targets Conqueror slams with her HE, other BBs, are the ones best suited to deal with HE+Fire damage.  The Cruisers cannot take such sustained attacks, they just don't have that staying power the BBs do.  But Conquerors aim at BBs 90% of the time!

 

When WG disclosed those figures, I was laughing so hard!  I figured Conqueror's damage avg was going to be high, but WG expanded and showed WHO they were shooting at, other BBs instead of Cruisers, it just made it even more funny!

 

Traditionally, BBs crush Cruisers.  But RN BBs shoot at other BBs instead and BB players don't like that!  Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!

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6 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

You want to know the funny thing?

 

The targets Conqueror slams with her HE, other BBs, are the ones best suited to deal with HE+Fire damage.  The Cruisers cannot take such sustained attacks, they just don't have that staying power the BBs do.  But Conquerors aim at BBs 90% of the time!

 

When WG disclosed those figures, I was laughing so hard!  I figured Conqueror's damage avg was going to be high, but WG expanded and showed WHO they were shooting at, other BBs instead of Cruisers, it just made it even more funny!

 

Traditionally, BBs crush Cruisers.  But RN BBs shoot at other BBs instead and BB players don't like that!  Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!

 

Its not the problem of being shot at, it is the combination of the high alpha along with the ridiculous fire chance, there is no way to mitigate that, no matter how well you play nothing you can do will offset that. Either leave the fire chance and tone down the alpha or vice versa, really she should not have been offered with the smaller gun option, the sigma nerf did about as much good as nerfing Khabas rudder shift.

 

Also with the prevalence of CVs here lately the fact that the HE destroys modules so easily raises another problem 

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1 hour ago, SmokinCAT said:

 

Its not the problem of being shot at, it is the combination of the high alpha along with the ridiculous fire chance, there is no way to mitigate that, no matter how well you play nothing you can do will offset that. Either leave the fire chance and tone down the alpha or vice versa, really she should not have been offered with the smaller gun option, the sigma nerf did about as much good as nerfing Khabas rudder shift.

 

Also with the prevalence of CVs here lately the fact that the HE destroys modules so easily raises another problem 

 

I have no sympathy.

 

I can get one-shotted by Battleship AP when I'm in my Cruiser.  But a BB has to worry about something?  We can't have that now, can we?

 

I can get one-shotted by BB AP when I use a Cruiser, but when a BB has to deal with slow acting Fire Damage and HE shells that need many hits, that's a problem for a BB?  Nevermind that Fire Damage can be healed back, but a Cruiser cannot do the same against Citadel Damage.  Matter of fact, most Cruisers in the game don't even have Repair Party!  Then again, some of them get blown away so quickly that Repair Party makes no difference even if they had it.

 

But a Battleship has to manage their consumables and control fire damage?  Whoa now!  Let's not get hasty!

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

I have no sympathy.

 

I can get one-shotted by Battleship AP when I'm in my Cruiser.  But a BB has to worry about something?  We can't have that now, can we?

 

I can get one-shotted by BB AP when I use a Cruiser, but when a BB has to deal with slow acting Fire Damage and HE shells that need many hits, that's a problem for a BB?  Nevermind that Fire Damage can be healed back, but a Cruiser cannot do the same against Citadel Damage.  Matter of fact, most Cruisers in the game don't even have Repair Party!  Then again, some of them get blown away so quickly that Repair Party makes no difference even if they had it.

 

But a Battleship has to manage their consumables and control fire damage?  Whoa now!  Let's not get hasty!

If you sail broadside I do not see the issue, I do think the people that maneuver well or understand angling should not pay the price of the silly over match mechanic, I think that should be changed against cruisers.

 

I have no problem managing consumables, fire prevention works well just don't have enough captain points for it yet on Yamato. Repairing double fires and then knowing the next salvo will likely be the same thing again doesn't have anything to do with consumables

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6 hours ago, SmokinCAT said:

I feel that having ships at high tier that can sail around broadside and not be punished is degrading play, they only have one line left to potato proof and that is izumo and yamato, no reason they have the only citadels that can easily be hammered on.

Uh... Have you ever played any of the ships that can "sail around broadside and not get punished?" 

 

Because trust me, if you sail around broadside, you're going to get punished no matter what you're in. You might not get deleted, but you're going to get punished pretty badly. 

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Conq is not OP, it is actually fairly weak. 

Eats pens everywhere, so what if it doesn't get cit easy
Low HP, high cooldown repair party.

It just melts now.


Playing the occasional game in her just to mess around, I will fling HE all day. If really wanted to win, I will be using AP 75% of the time and hunting cruisers with my amazing concealment.

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HE and Fire are both OP so not surprising people don't like the Conqueror. Really all you needed to do was look at battles played for last 2 weeks to see that Conqueror is still very under represented. The reason why divisions are so important for the Conqueror is because it is the only one that doesn't get aircraft. WG could homogenize it and nerf the HE but then they would have to buff the armor and give it an aircraft.

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   Always wondered why CQ's hang back until I got one. Won my 1st four games by pushing in, figured I had this ship figured, bought the premium camo, and lost like the next 8 games in it. I'm an AP guy too, only use HE on heavily angled BB's. Anyway, been working my way back to the 50% line and have had to realize this thing is actually really squishy to HE pens, 8" and above. This ship is nothing like overpowered.

   Just had a game where a Khab called my Conqueror cancer because it's detection was so low, I guess because his 54% server-wide win rate ship couldn't constantly HE spam my 50% server-wide win rate ship and I was hitting him fairly consistently. I guess sometimes a ship is OP cancer if it's damaging you and you can't see it 6 out of 26 seconds.

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Go back and use 2-week stats.

 

You can say nothing with all time stats. The game has changed significantly, many ships have been added, many ships have been changed over that time. 

 

Any argument you make using all time stats as your evidence is rightfully dismissed outright. 2-week or Nothing. 

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1 hour ago, zarth12 said:

Conq is not OP, it is actually fairly weak. 

Eats pens everywhere, so what if it doesn't get cit easy
Low HP, high cooldown repair party.

It just melts now.

 

This.

People who don't have the Conq don't realize how much the increased cooldown to the repair party has affected it's survivability. Whatever OP-ness it had went away with that nerf. I can't remember the last time I was able to use the last charge of the RP consumable since the nerf hit.

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I haven't found Conqueror to be a problem.    Minotaur, however is annoying AF and I always try to get my team to prioritize them.

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39 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Go back and use 2-week stats.

 

You can say nothing with all time stats. The game has changed significantly, many ships have been added, many ships have been changed over that time. 

 

Any argument you make using all time stats as your evidence is rightfully dismissed outright. 2-week or Nothing. 

 Stats are the 1 week stats.

 

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The Conqueror is simply the best Cruiser in the game.

 

It would totally help if people went for wins rathet than farm though.

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