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Pizza_plz

Yugumo Get?

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Pizza_plz    58

So, I'm a USN DD main who is finally going up/down the IJN DD tree. No, I don't know why; I guess I just feel like it's something I should be doing. Maybe atonement for all of the joy I've gotten over the years from pushing the little IJN lolibotes around on the playground...forgive me for my numerous sins. Anyway, Old Mutsuki destroyed my drive to play the IJN DDs, and for a very long time after finally getting to Old Hatsu, Old Hatsu just sat in port until the IJN DD split fell upon us.

 

To get to the point, thanks to super awesome xp stacking missions and flags and such, I'm closing in on the Yugumo (still ~47k xp away), but I still don't really know what to think. I'm kinda, sorta enjoying the Kag, I guess? I don't love it. I don't really dislike it either, tho after my torrid love affairs with Fletcher and Sims and Benson and Gearing (and now Kidd!), I'm finding that I just don't feel that spark with Kagero. There just aren't any fireworks, ya know? I dunno, perhaps I'm trying to force a marriage where only friendship exists. 


All of this brings me to my questions for you high tier IJN DD drivers: What improvements should/can I expect when I get to Yugumo, if any? One of my regular divmates effing loves his, another is kinda "meh" about it, and I'm finding myself really getting my hopes up. I am looking forward to getting access to the 93 mod. 3s and the rate of fire buff to the 127s, but is there much more than that? Does the gameplay change is any particular way? Just more of the same?

 

Tl;dr: Why do you like/dislike your Yugumo? What about her makes your pants fall off/stay eternally zippered?

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desmo_2    739

Yugumo is the IJN DD ghost.  Very stealthy at T9 with 5.5 km concealment (with CE captain skill, Concealment System Mod 1, and camo), and 12 km, 67 knot torps (2x4).

Her guns are okay, but you aren't going to outgun any T9-10 DD's. You have to choose whether to equip her with smoke or torpedo reload booster.  TRB really makes her nasty...but you have to stay undetected.  This makes using your guns a dangerous affair.  Smoke is a safer, more boring play.

I equip TRB.  Go big or go home.

Edited by desmo_2
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Pizza_plz    58

Right, this is how I've been playing Kagero. I went with smoke for the first few games just to get used to the ship, but I've been TRB since then. Makes for scary games, that's for sure.

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Have you not gone for Akizuki?

Yugumo is a great objective ship with 5.4km concealment good torp options and quite useable guns.  If you like Kagero you will like Yugumo

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1nv4d3rZ1m    3,419

TRB and the Type 93 mod 3 torpedoes make a breathtaking combination. 

 

Using the boat as a pure torpedo boat without any smoke is living on the razor's edge and making it perform has been some of the most exciting play I have had in high tier DDs. Although on the flip side it has also had some of the most boring games because a decent enemy CV can absolutely shut down a TRB Yugumo. But I guess its only fair that there is some risk involved to play a ship that can force a repair with one salvo and then get a perma flood with the next. 

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WhiteRecon    59

I really like my Harekaze, but I don't run the Kagero hull.  I have over 700 battles in my Shima, but like the ghostly Yugumo just as much.  Smoke is rarely useful, I would never put it on Yugumo.  The 3-min boost mod and a speed flag are a big help.  Div'ing with a Fletcher, Udaloi or Neptune would be fun.  I run RPF, Supt and Adrenaline Rush for Yugumo but you could spec into guns and have a great hybrid too.

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EAnybody    89

I'm an IJN DD guy. The Yugumo is the best one outside the premiums, and maybe the Shiratsuyu. But you better have that 15+ pt captain ready, because playing it well absolutely demands the skills.

 

Personally, I play with smoke.  That's because I tend to avoid the "go it alone" style that many other Yugumo folks do so successfully. 

 

I tend to gravitate to team play - which, given I don't Division, is not simple - where I stay near a couple of team mates.  I like the firepower support of a friendly CA/BB, and find it helps a lot when capping.

 

Thus, I spend a lot of time smoking friendlies, and spotting for them.  It works out well for me, since I can usually cap better than a typical IJN DD player, and also because it helps to have my enemies distracted shooting at my nearby friends - makes it easier to land the torp spread that way, when opponents aren't paying as much attention to position as they should. 

 

The Yugumo feels like a significant improvement over the Kagero for me. Particularly since, even without the TRB, your torp-throwing capability is pretty impressive - sub 80 second reload time. And the 12km torps - while still ludicrously easy to spot - give you a better chance of avoiding the huge amounts of radar that WG seems intent on equipping every T8+ ship with.

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geser98    100
On 11/21/2017 at 10:25 AM, Pizza_plz said:

All of this brings me to my questions for you high tier IJN DD drivers: What improvements should/can I expect when I get to Yugumo, if any? One of my regular divmates effing loves his, another is kinda "meh" about it, and I'm finding myself really getting my hopes up.

 

I'm in the 'meh' boat here. I mean, Yugumo is great, don't get me wrong, but I just don't feel there is much change from Kagero. I play them both in the same fashion - with TRB and trying to stay undetected as much as possible.

 

As for me, tier for tier Kagero is better if running the same setup. The opposition is weaker, concealment is better and a bit fewer radars in the MM spread. Actually, it's a good time to compare, since right now I have exactly the same number of games in both.

 

yugumo.thumb.JPG.eeda6cdff19f0c1e57bd35e2785c994a.JPG

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Pizza_plz    58
21 hours ago, MountainManxDan said:

Have you not gone for Akizuki?

Yugumo is a great objective ship with 5.4km concealment good torp options and quite useable guns.  If you like Kagero you will like Yugumo

 

Yeah, I have Aki - not many games in it, tho. Honestly, I haven't really had much fun in it yet. Don't get me wrong, the guns are all kinds of stupid fun, but the gun platform leaves me...well, dead or prospecting local beaches more often than not.

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Pizza_plz    58
1 hour ago, geser98 said:

As for me, tier for tier Kagero is better if running the same setup. The opposition is weaker, concealment is better and a bit fewer radars in the MM 

 

Yes, this is what I'm a little worried about: that the gameplay isn't much different than in Kagero, but that everything else gets deadlier and less forgiving.

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Pizza_plz    58
20 hours ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

TRB and the Type 93 mod 3 torpedoes make a breathtaking combination. 

 

Using the boat as a pure torpedo boat without any smoke is living on the razor's edge and making it perform has been some of the most exciting play I have had in high tier DDs. Although on the flip side it has also had some of the most boring games because a decent enemy CV can absolutely shut down a TRB Yugumo. But I guess its only fair that there is some risk involved to play a ship that can force a repair with one salvo and then get a perma flood with the next. 

 

20 hours ago, WhiteRecon said:

I really like my Harekaze, but I don't run the Kagero hull.  I have over 700 battles in my Shima, but like the ghostly Yugumo just as much.  Smoke is rarely useful, I would never put it on Yugumo.  The 3-min boost mod and a speed flag are a big help.  Div'ing with a Fletcher, Udaloi or Neptune would be fun.  I run RPF, Supt and Adrenaline Rush for Yugumo but you could spec into guns and have a great hybrid too.

 

19 hours ago, EAnybody said:

I'm an IJN DD guy. The Yugumo is the best one outside the premiums, and maybe the Shiratsuyu. But you better have that 15+ pt captain ready, because playing it well absolutely demands the skills.

 

Personally, I play with smoke.  That's because I tend to avoid the "go it alone" style that many other Yugumo folks do so successfully. 

 

I tend to gravitate to team play - which, given I don't Division, is not simple - where I stay near a couple of team mates.  I like the firepower support of a friendly CA/BB, and find it helps a lot when capping.

 

Thus, I spend a lot of time smoking friendlies, and spotting for them.  It works out well for me, since I can usually cap better than a typical IJN DD player, and also because it helps to have my enemies distracted shooting at my nearby friends - makes it easier to land the torp spread that way, when opponents aren't paying as much attention to position as they should. 

 

The Yugumo feels like a significant improvement over the Kagero for me. Particularly since, even without the TRB, your torp-throwing capability is pretty impressive - sub 80 second reload time. And the 12km torps - while still ludicrously easy to spot - give you a better chance of avoiding the huge amounts of radar that WG seems intent on equipping every T8+ ship with.

 

Thanks for the tips and advice guys; I'll for sure be trying her out, and I am looking forward to the 93 mod. 3s, that's for sure. <0

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Sabot_100    120

Then again the OP may want to wait to see how the new Pan-Asia line affects things. Seems like they do everything better than the IJN except torp other DDs.

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EAnybody    89

Unfortunately, the Pan-Asian line appears to be a massive screw-over of all the existing DD lines.

  • Great concealment.
  • Very good guns - at least one of ROF/fire/DPM being top-end on each ship.
  • Torpedoes that both stupidly hard to spot AND fast
  • Very fast base ship speed
  • New smoke gimmick that effectively allows continuous smoke fire for pretty much the entire game (large number of default smokes, too).
  • Radar possible on T8+.

In their current form, they're game-breaking, since they're pretty much either the 1st or 2nd best IN EACH CATEGORY of the above at every tier.  They have very little, if any, weaknesses.

In effect, WG just introduced a "Jack of All Trades, Master of Everything" entire line.  They're so good that several of the prior "very nice" premiums are considered inferior (e.g. Anshan).

 

If the Pan Asians launch like they currently are, I'm recommending that everyone just stop playing period.  It won't be fun anymore, and WG is pretty obviously making a hard-core cash grab (looking to get people willing to spend money just to advance up the new line) while screwing over it's existing customer base.  The RN BBs were a pretty good example of this, and it looks like this is just going to be WG's modus operandi from now on, so unless things are drastically different than what they appear now, I'd say it's time to go find another game where the company isn't so actively evil.

 

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Sabot_100    120
2 hours ago, EAnybody said:

If the Pan Asians launch like they currently are, I'm recommending that everyone just stop playing period.

Seems a bit drastic. Does seem like a fun line but it gets its fun by sucking the fun out of all the other lines. Sure hope WG changes things before release but that looks a lot less likely as time goes by. The only weakness for the line will be that inability to torp other DDs but their ability to nuke CAs and BBs with unspottable torps should more than make up for that.They always have better guns than the IJN to fall back on.

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EAnybody    89
13 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Seems a bit drastic. Does seem like a fun line but it gets its fun by sucking the fun out of all the other lines. Sure hope WG changes things before release but that looks a lot less likely as time goes by. The only weakness for the line will be that inability to torp other DDs but their ability to nuke CAs and BBs with unspottable torps should more than make up for that.They always have better guns than the IJN to fall back on.

They don't just always have better guns than the IJN, they often have better guns than ANY other DD, and when they don't, they're at least competitive.  That is, other DDs have to fear losing a gunfight to a Pan-Asian DD as a significant possibility.  So not only is this a return to the Beta days of the SuperTorpedo for just this line of ship, it's also one which has no noticeable weakness to anything. Well, except for magic radar. But that's another issue.

 

As to the abandonment, it's pretty much gotten to that point where WG simply doesn't seem to respond to anything else except a termination of their revenue stream. The constant abuse of the existing playerbase has been going on for well over a year now, and is very well documented that WG can't possibly not be aware of the problem.  They're just CHOOSING to abuse us, and that's not a tolerable action from a company. Which is why it's the door for me and anyone else I have contact with if this line turns out to be what it is now.

Edited by EAnybody

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geser98    100
3 hours ago, EAnybody said:
  • Great concealment.
  • Very good guns - at least one of ROF/fire/DPM being top-end on each ship.
  • Torpedoes that both stupidly hard to spot AND fast
  • Very fast base ship speed
  • New smoke gimmick that effectively allows continuous smoke fire for pretty much the entire game (large number of default smokes, too).
  • Radar possible on T8+.

 

From what I'd seen, this is not universal, since PA DDs come from different nations and each tier is quite different from the other. I'm very much looking forward to them getting released, but I don't think that they will be all that game breaking. I think you're over-reacting.

 

Some things you say are subject to very much discussion as well. Top tiers of PA are essentially ex-USN dds. If you consider USN 127-mm guns great, then maybe they are. I, on the other hand, don't. If you struggle to hit an object the size small town at 12 km range (GK for example) it's really hard to make a case of guns being great. 

 

Radar is possible, but you have to sacrifice smoke and given how great PA smoke is, it might be a poor trade. Concealment on top tiers is worse than their US counterparts and much worse than IJN. 

 

OH, and they've got the ship with the best name ever - T7 PA dd "Gadjah Mada" back when serving in Dutch navy was called... TJERK HIDDLES!!!  OMFG!!! This name is so awesome!!!! BTW, I know there's no "L" in  the second part, but it sounds even better that way :Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by geser98
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tmGrunty    41

I can't take anybody serious that thinks that deepwater torpedoes are an advantage.

Most Pan-Asia DDs are mediocre at best (especially for solo play) because they have those really bad torpedoes. They are THE weakness of the whole line.

Not being able to hit other DDs makes them unable to contest caps effectivly.

 

The lower detection doesn't offset the penalty. If you can't hit with USN or IJN torpedoes right now you won't be able to hit with Pan-Asian torpedoes either.

 

Let's face it.

IJN DDs are the hardest destroyer line to play correctly and effective and most people how complain how bad those are just have zero clue how to play them.

Edited by tmGrunty

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l1nv5    4
1 hour ago, tmGrunty said:

I can't take anybody serious that thinks that deepwater torpedoes are an advantage.

Most Pan-Asia DDs are mediocre at best (especially for solo play) because they have those really bad torpedoes. They are THE weakness of the whole line.

Not being able to hit other DDs makes them unable to contest caps effectivly.

 

The lower detection doesn't offset the penalty. If you can't hit with USN or IJN torpedoes right now you won't be able to hit with Pan-Asian torpedoes either.

 

Let's face it.

IJN DDs are the hardest destroyer line to play correctly and effective and most people how complain how bad those are just have zero clue how to play them.

I am begging you, make a petition for WG to give what PADDs have to IJN DDs and we will happily trade what IJN DDs had to PADDs. Who the f need torpedoes to hit DDs to be able to contest cap? You just sit there at the edge of the cap, no one will bother you LOL. As for saying about IJN DDs players who complains don't have a clue how to play them, me, IJN Yugumo main, 545 battles, 56% WR, 8.5% THR, 40% MBHR, 55k average damage on SOLO random battles, complains about IJN DDs. Say that again 21-battle-IJN expert. I have played 1 battle with a YueYang tester and he is so bad, manage to miss all but 2 torps on a full boardsided BB straight lining 7km away so yeah, to him DW Torps are rubbish

Edited by l1nv5

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tmGrunty    41

I know your stats and I'm honestly not impressed especially after that many battles. And if you want to look at mine you have to look on the EU account as this is my main one.

But the fact alone that I finished that whole IJN DD with less than 100 games on NA server should tell you that I might know what I#m talking about and know how to play those ships.

 

No (good) DD player would give up the ability to hit a certain type of ship just to get a torpedo detection buff.

And your "test" means nothing. Everybody should be able to hit a straight lining BB with any torpedo in the game. You don't need magical deepwater torpedoes to do that if you know what you are doing.

 

I'm just sick and tired of people whinig how bad IJN DDs are. The Shimakazs is already better than the Gearing (in random battles), the Yugumo (with TRB) is on par if not better than the Fletcher and the Kagero is not far behind the Benson.

If you don't believe me then just look up the 2 week stats for those ships.

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l1nv5    4
14 minutes ago, tmGrunty said:

I know your stats and I'm honestly not impressed especially after that many battles. And if you want to look at mine you have to look on the EU account as this is my main one.

But the fact alone that I finished that whole IJN DD with less than 100 games on NA server should tell you that I might know what I#m talking about and know how to play those ships.

Lol you sure can finish that whole IJN DD with less than 100 games if you have multiple accounts that cover your practice account. Try 500 random solo battles back to back and get 70% win rate on the Yugumo. On your main account you only have 78 battles on the Yugumo. I used to have 70%+ win rate sub 100 battles.

 

22 minutes ago, tmGrunty said:

I'm just sick and tired of people whinig how bad IJN DDs are. The Shimakazs is already better than the Gearing (in random battles), the Yugumo (with TRB) is on par if not better than the Fletcher and the Kagero is not far behind the Benson.

Come to IJN Torp thread discussion, you can have a say there.

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geser98    100
On 11/24/2017 at 1:10 AM, l1nv5 said:

me, IJN Yugumo main, 545 battles, 56% WR, 8.5% THR, 40% MBHR, 55k average damage on SOLO random battles, complains about IJN DDs.

 

It's reasonable to assume that you wouldn't be playing her so much if you didn't like Yugumo quite a bit and you're having quite a bit of success in her, so what exactly is the point of your complaining? - "Please WG make my weabote completely broken and OP"? 

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l1nv5    4
1 hour ago, geser98 said:

 

It's reasonable to assume that you wouldn't be playing her so much if you didn't like Yugumo quite a bit and you're having quite a bit of success in her, so what exactly is the point of your complaining? - "Please WG make my weabote completely broken and OP"? 

IJN DD is the only ship line I have

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geser98    100
32 minutes ago, l1nv5 said:

IJN DD is the only ship line I have

 

Then maybe you should try and play other lines first. Often ships that seem completely OP when I play against them are in fact quite tough and it takes a good player to make them work. I'm not a DD main, I play all classes equally (except broken carriers), but I play a lot of DD and I can't in all fairness say, that IJN line is weak. It was stronger before torpedo detection nerf, yes, but I think it's fairly well balanced now. Historically speaking, though, it's unfair to have Japanese oxygen-fueled torpedoes have worse detection than those of other nations, but in a sense of game balance it is fine.

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l1nv5    4
4 hours ago, geser98 said:

 

Then maybe you should try and play other lines first. Often ships that seem completely OP when I play against them are in fact quite tough and it takes a good player to make them work. I'm not a DD main, I play all classes equally (except broken carriers), but I play a lot of DD and I can't in all fairness say, that IJN line is weak. It was stronger before torpedo detection nerf, yes, but I think it's fairly well balanced now. Historically speaking, though, it's unfair to have Japanese oxygen-fueled torpedoes have worse detection than those of other nations, but in a sense of game balance it is fine.

DDs are generally underdogs and all DDs are equally bad if you compare to BBs and CAs and CLs. I play Fletcher on my friends' account and consistently have 100k games for him with the same play style I do on the Yug. I am considering grinding the PADDs next once the stats are confirmed, don't want another one with big nerf after getting the ships.

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geser98    100
1 hour ago, l1nv5 said:

I play Fletcher on my friends' account and consistently have 100k games for him with the same play style I do on the Yug. 

 

"Consistently - in every case or on every occasion; invariably"

 

You should, in that case, get yourself a Fletcher ASAP, because you should be the top player on NA :Smile_teethhappy: Or could it be that you're exaggerating?

 

1 hour ago, l1nv5 said:

DDs are generally underdogs and all DDs are equally bad if you compare to BBs and CAs and CLs.

 

This really depends on what you consider as underdogs. For most tiers DDs are on top if you filter by WR or average exp. In fact, dds are what makes or breaks the team, not BBabies that just hide in the back or CA/Cls the just... explode.

 

Or do you mean, they are underdogs in terms of damage dealt? 

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