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Pan Asian DDs with Radar. Derp Derp Derp

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So, looking at the Wiki the other day for some radar range info, it appears that the T8-10 Pan Asian DDs will have short-duration radar sets.

Oh, yeah, that's just what we need:  small, stealthy ships with radar. That won't break anything at all, will it?

 

So, let's see, who might that be useful to attack?

US DDs?  Nope - they out-DPM the Pan-Asian ones.

KM DDs?  Nope, they have far more health and can brawl a Pan Asian easily inside the radar range. It's not like the Pan Asian DDs will be heavily cap-contesting to start the game, either.

USSR DDs?  Nope - they'll just out-run the Pan Asian, and how many Russian DDs sit still in smoke (or behind islands)?  They're always on the move.

 

That leaves....

IJN DDs.  Slower than the Pan Asians, worse guns, heavily reliant on smoke and stealth.

 

So, basically, this is yet another IJN DD nerf.  As if life in a IJN DD isn't already torturous.

As someone else said (rightly so), Pan Asian DDs are the answer to a question nobody is asking.  The more I find out about them, the stupider they get.

 

Even worse, now we're looking at a typical T8+ match having at least 40% of the team have radar?  Why even bother with concealment anymore? Just [edited]show everything to everyone and make it a blast-em-all contest, since that's plainly what WG wants.

 

Edited by EAnybody
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Yeah...I don't even try IJN DD's, and my friend hardly touches his Shima anymore. USS Black has radar too, but Blacks are few and far between...The Pan-Asia's will be everywhere. RIP IJN DD's

Edited by _Maho_Nishizumi_212

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THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

And yet, the sky never seems to actually get on with it and fall.

 

That would be because it's never what ya think it is. Fact, we won't know just what that line will do for the player at large until the player at large can play it. Lord alive.

Edited by TheKrimzonDemon
typos ftw!
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Just now, TheKrimzonDemon said:

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

And yet, the sky never seems to actually get on with it and fall.

 

That would be because it's never what ya think it is. Fact, we won't won't know just what that line will do for the player at large until the player at large can play it. Lord alive.

Point taken. However, I don't really think that DD's should get radar at all, and Black is an anomaly.

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Just now, TheKrimzonDemon said:

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

And yet, the sky never seems to actually get on with it and fall.

 

That would be because it's never what ya think it is. Fact, we won't won't know just what that line will do for the player at large until the player at large can play it. Lord alive.

 

Yet even a cursory understanding of the game shows why PanAsians are a bad idea.  We looked at the current Clan Wars setup, and could tell well before it came out exactly how it was going to play out. And it turned out EXACTLY to be the kind of crap-show people predicted.

What, you mean that equipping a cruiser with 18" guns with a 5 second reload might work itself out? We should wait to see how it plays out before criticizing?  For someone with a lot of gameplay experience, you really don't seem to understand the meta and how WG's gimmick fetish seriously hurts the game.

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Just now, EAnybody said:

 

Yet even a cursory understanding of the game shows why PanAsians are a bad idea.  We looked at the current Clan Wars setup, and could tell well before it came out exactly how it was going to play out. And it turned out EXACTLY to be the kind of crap-show people predicted.

What, you mean that equipping a cruiser with 18" guns with a 5 second reload might work itself out? We should wait to see how it plays out before criticizing?  For someone with a lot of gameplay experience, you really don't seem to understand the meta and how WG's gimmick fetish seriously hurts the game.

*cough cough* RN BB's with radar in testing *cough cough*

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RN? Really? Or do you mean RU? 

 

I think it'd be fine with me, at least, if radar and rdp were a use once, forget about it consumable. No reloads, no recharge, once and forget it. 

 

If you step back and look at the picture and imagine the potential radar coverage in a higher tier match... it's almost nutz. Played Gearing over the weekend - man it war horrid. Radar, hydro, fighters, db's and tb's and let's not forget RDF(RPF). It does present quite a challenge to navigate the combat zone. 

 

Loading that zone with even more radar ships would in effect, nullify those commanders with CE. Surely everyone can see that, right? The sky is not falling, more like soon, there's gonna be nowhere to hide. I'm leaning towards the OP's POV... too much radar is bad. Bad mojo indeed. 

Edited by Herr_Reitz

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How exactly is this a  NERF to IJN DDs and are they really broken??

 

Spoiler

KjLpFBt.jpg

 

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21 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

RN? Really? Or do you mean RU? 

When did WG test a line of RU BB's? RN BB's were originally going to get radar before WG's brain flickered on momentarily. 

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20 minutes ago, _Maho_Nishizumi_212 said:

When did WG test a line of RU BB's? RN BB's were originally going to get radar before WG's brain flickered on momentarily. 

I missed that first time 'round... the comment as written led me to believe something currently in testing. Wrong exit ramp. 

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While I agree IJN DDs need some help to make them more accessible to non-unicums (apparently, Shima is really strong in the right hands ... just not your average player), I feel the upcoming Pan-Asian DDs are going to be really weak overall.

 

Sure, they have radar, but they have to swap out their smoke for it which is really not good given their smoke is the USN one. The deepwater torps are useless in a DD duel. They also cannot equip Defensive Fire which makes them weak against carriers. Honestly, I really don't see any redeeming traits for them or why anyone would want to play them.

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8 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

Honestly, I really don't see any redeeming traits for them or why anyone would want to play them.

As close as us free players can get to RN DDs this year is reason enough!

Edited by warpath_33
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Just now, warpath_33 said:

As close as us free players can get to RN DDs this year is reason enough!

 

Problem is only two of them are british designs. The rest are a mix of all other nations designs. I'd save your time and free XP for the actual RN DD line when it comes out and just level other lines instead for now. Unless you're a masochist, of course.

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I doubt the lower tier Pan - Asian DDs will have radar.  I will not play post WW2 ships.

Do I have confidence that WoWS will correctly incorporate this tech line into the game? No.

 

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You have a choice of taking smoke or radar in high tier PA DDs. The smoke is really strong. The radar isn't. You decide which one is more useful to the ships. 

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4 hours ago, RivertheRoyal said:

You have a choice of taking smoke or radar in high tier PA DDs. The smoke is really strong. The radar isn't. You decide which one is more useful to the ships. 

 

Probably.  But then again, this is the same situation for RN CLs.  And that forced a significant change on DDs, since the mere THREAT of radar is more than sufficient to mean certain tactics aren't viable anymore.  It further reduces the available strategies for stealthy ships, with no counter available. 

 

Ultimately, radar (in general) does two bad things: it acts as a crutch for sloppy play (i.e. rewards players who fail to pay attention to position, and penalizes those who do), and removes possible tactics.  It adds nothing to the game in terms of new playstyles or options - it's solely a negative influence.  Radar was tolerable when there were a very few ships equipped with it, but as of now, it's available on every single class of ship except CV, and roughly 15% of all possible opponents a DD might face.  Very few T8+ games have less than 2 radar-equipped ships in them now, and putting it on the Pan Asian DD line likely means that this will change to 3+ per match.  As it stands right now, I'd expect that almost HALF of all ships in a typical T8+ game will have the possibility of having radar.

 

Ask the Clan Wars folks how well the game plays when teams can chain radar for at least the first half of the game. Makes for a pretty bad game.

 

Not to mention that this will now make T6 and T7 significantly more difficult; neither of those tiers can cope well with radar at all as it currently stands, and this just makes the problem worse.

Edited by EAnybody

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I think the radar is going to be highly useful in divisions, where you have some reliable backup.

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53 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

I think the radar is going to be highly useful in divisions, where you have some reliable backup.

Yes. I don't see how the short period radar on a fragile DD can be useful without smoke support either. PA DD smoke on the other hand, looks to be very strong.

I am very interested in finding how DW torps will affect clan battles which is CA heavy. 13.5km allows the ship to be safely outside of radar ranges. Flanking the red fleet and toss near undetectable fish to the almost aways stationary big ship can be very deadly.

Plus she will have the lowest ship detection in CB.

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1 hour ago, chewonit said:

Yes. I don't see how the short period radar on a fragile DD can be useful without smoke support either.

Same way some cruisers use it. Get behind an island and pop radar when you think there are targets nearby and you team is ready to kill them. The advantage would be you aren't taking a lot of the teams firepower out of the deluge by being behind an island.

I obviously am against having even more ships with radar especially at "lower" tiers. T8s see T6s routinely. Some of said it will be a tough choice between radar and smoke, but ships relying on stealth or smoke will have to assume the PA DDs have radar and play accordingly until proven otherwise. Just like CVs have to assume a Cleveland has DF and keep their planes far away.

Edited by Sabot_100

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15 hours ago, EAnybody said:

So, looking at the Wiki the other day for some radar range info, it appears that the T8-10 Pan Asian DDs will have short-duration radar sets.

Oh, yeah, that's just what we need:  small, stealthy ships with radar. That won't break anything at all, will it?

 

So, let's see, who might that be useful to attack?

US DDs?  Nope - they out-DPM the Pan-Asian ones.

KM DDs?  Nope, they have far more health and can brawl a Pan Asian easily inside the radar range. It's not like the Pan Asian DDs will be heavily cap-contesting to start the game, either.

USSR DDs?  Nope - they'll just out-run the Pan Asian, and how many Russian DDs sit still in smoke (or behind islands)?  They're always on the move.

 

That leaves....

IJN DDs.  Slower than the Pan Asians, worse guns, heavily reliant on smoke and stealth.

 

So, basically, this is yet another IJN DD nerf.  As if life in a IJN DD isn't already torturous.

As someone else said (rightly so), Pan Asian DDs are the answer to a question nobody is asking.  The more I find out about them, the stupider they get.

 

Even worse, now we're looking at a typical T8+ match having at least 40% of the team have radar?  Why even bother with concealment anymore? Just [edited]show everything to everyone and make it a blast-em-all contest, since that's plainly what WG wants.

 

Although I disagree that the only victim will be IJN DDs, I do agree that more radar (especially on a stealthly ship) is a horrible idea. It will be yet another death sentence that can't be countered to all enemy DDs. Trying to cap is already tough with as much radar/hydro/catapult planes (not to mention real planes) in the game. Seems every ship now has a magical way to detect my DD with the press of a button, and there's not much I can do about it except pray I can get out of range before taking 2 salvos and blowing up.

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21 minutes ago, FleetAdmiral_Assassin said:

Seems every ship now has a magical way to detect my DD with the press of a button, and there's not much I can do about it except pray I can get out of range before taking 2 salvos and blowing up.

There is a solution, play the Khab.

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While the PA DD release looms, I do think there is a flaw in WGs evaluation of new ships that completely ignores synergistic effects of a division of multiple ships. The original testing likely did not reveal the massively OP effect of a coordinated division of Belfasts for example. The testing phase probably never had more than one ship in a match, much less multiple ships on a team.

 

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Honestly? When I play IJN dds, I use the smoke purely as bait.

Edited by Perriwen

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5 hours ago, Perriwen said:

Honestly? When I play IJN dds, I use the smoke purely as bait.

Except for the Akizuki, smoke is more often an "I'm not ready to die yet" thing. When the "Detected" warning goes off with a quickly climbing PT counter (wait, over half their team thinks I am their best target???) I smoke up and usually depart the area. Using it so I can shoot from cover is next and finally smoking for a teammate with small guns (wasted on big gunned ships). Are you using it to get the reds to waste a few salvos of torps or so they don't realize you actual attack will come from a different angle?

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