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Hiryu (Strike) vs Saipan?

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I just don't understand how to beat a Saipan with my Hiryu. It seems impossible to win the game, since all he does is use his superior fighter HP to tank my strafes and then delete my fighters. I really want to switch to AS Hiryu for this, but I enjoy strike Hiryu. What do I do?

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Simple answer according to Fara is to be in six places at once, max he can be at is three; try to bait him over friendly AA, and then, unfortunately, suck it up and hope you get a Ranger next game.

 

A slightly more detailed thing to do is manual drop your dive bomber bombs as soon as you launch, the send them out to try to bait fighters by threatening something, since DBs apparently fly faster unloaded, once he starts after them, RUN,Then send your torpies in to attack somewhere else. Meanwhile, hopefully, you can use your fighters to attack the Saipan's bomber, to scout, or to gang up on a single fighter whenever possible...

 

The are occasionally sucky Saipan drivers, but it does seem to be the T59 or E25 of WoWs...

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8 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

The are occasionally sucky Saipan drivers, but it does seem to be the T59 or E25 of WoWs...

Ah, this puts it into proportion for me, as I started on WoT. Thanks! I guess I just need to tough it out.

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Unless you can bait him into some serious AA, all you can do is delay him, or hope your strafe works. IJN planes cannot achieve enough %chance per second to be effective against USN. Even Essex, about to lose tier 9 fighters, Still get a higher chance of shooing down the IJN tier 9 planes WITHOUT DFE added in, let alone with. And numbers really isn't enough in terms of groups. USN fighters are broken, their DPS is too high for their planes per group (their DPS overall as with all fighters is the DPS you see in the tooltip times the number of planes in the squadron), while also having more ammo.

 

All you can really do is build as much DPS and HP into your fighters, get DFE and AS skill, and pray the Saipan isn't that good a player or that Wargaming finally sees the light, nerfs USN aircraft DPS, which nerfs the module meaning that Saipan is nerfed as well, maybe just adding a plane to each group if needed to rebalance it properly and not too weak because Saipan is balanced on a knife edge, and then things are fine. Only T7 fighters that stand a chance are full fighter build Ranger.

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When facing a CV with superior fighters people tend to feel an urge to get out there and do lots of complicated strafing. After all, in a straight up lock engagement you'll lose, so it has to be your job to turn the odds.

However, that is the opposite of how you should be approaching things. Especially against a good player, it is necessary to wait until he is vulnerable and starts making mistakes before you engage his fighters. And the Saipan, with its small squadrons and limited hanger capacity, can afford to make surprisingly few mistakes. Further, because their fighters can exit strafe with no losses, Saipan players tend to over-extend themselves.

I would therefore recommend hanging back over friendly AA as much as possible. Because of the high tier of their planes, Saipan players don't fear AA as they should, especially as it only requires one random dice roll to reduce their squadron by 25%. Next, attack lone squadrons. Most Saipan players are willing to temporarily accept these engagements because they feel they can exit strafe at no cost should your second squadron come in. Use this to engage him over friendly AA, or follow strafe him when he tries to leave. You should also (and this applies to all CVs) attack when the enemy is making a strike, because he will be busy microing other things during this time. If you can successfully get his squadron to 2 planes (which, as already stated, only requires two random dice rolls to turn out positive), then you can defeat his squadron in a direct lock engagement. And a Saipan player cannot afford to do that often.

 

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The real issue here is that none of the advice people are giving is really helpful.

 

"Engage them over friendly AA" - They can leaves  lock for no loss. There is no way to lock a Sipan's fighter up over friendly AA.

"Follow straife when they leave" - When they break a lock, they straif out, and there going to be moving so fast you can't keep up unless you more or less know what direction and when they are doing to break the lock.

There fighters are also more or less able to run down any other plane in the sky, including empty bombers.

-

Simply put. You don't win against a Siapan player. Siapan players loss against you...

If the Siapan player is not a potato, there is really very little you can do.

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There are plenty of times in tier 6 CVs (where I play CVs mostly) I'll be paired up against some 38% guy who averages 20k damage and we'll still manage to lose. I'm no superstar in CVs but I can generally lock down a potato while having a reasonable impact on the game. Sometimes it just doesn't matter.

All you can do is the best you can do... Communicate with the team- tell them to stay in packs to help protect against aircraft since you will have limited impact on him and then do what you can. What you can't, you won't. 

Even if you were in another Saipan there are guys with over 1000 battles just in Saipan and 70+% win rates... We're not able to dictate the end of every match... sometimes the team has to take on their share. 

Edited by _ENO_

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1 hour ago, blackstarraven said:

The real issue here is that none of the advice people are giving is really helpful.

 

"Engage them over friendly AA" - They can leaves  lock for no loss. There is no way to lock a Sipan's fighter up over friendly AA.

"Follow straife when they leave" - When they break a lock, they straif out, and there going to be moving so fast you can't keep up unless you more or less know what direction and when they are doing to break the lock.

There fighters are also more or less able to run down any other plane in the sky, including empty bombers.

-

Simply put. You don't win against a Siapan player. Siapan players loss against you...

If the Siapan player is not a potato, there is really very little you can do.

Pretty much. There really isn't much you can do. All things being equal Saipan is going to beat you in any air engagement.  Saipan was a post-war carrier and it is operating very late war and post war planes that far outclass Hiryu's pre-war/early war planes. Saipan's only real issue is it was a small carrier and has a very tiny capacity and thus it has small airgroups and few planes. Unfortunately it is very difficult to take advantage of that in the game unless you are better. Elite players can pull it off, mere mortals not so much. 

Saipan's planes make her a spectacular air-superiority carrier. You really can't win an air engagement with them under anything resembling equal circumstances. All you can do is try to use her small capacity against her and outlast her, which is far easier said than done. If the Saipan has any idea how to strafe out of engagements it will eat your planes for breakfast.  (There are videos up on youtube on how Saipan does this. You may want to check them out.) You have to try to make sure that the sacrifice those planes make allow other groups to strike. I don't think AS Hiryu is going to work. The only times I've seen Hiryu work well against Saipan is to spread out so that Saipan is stretched thin trying to cover against you. Saipan's planes will catch some of them you have to keep them spread far enough away from each other that it can't get them all. Unfortunately that does make it hard to coordinate strikes and makes your strikes easier for defending AA to break up. 

The only bits of good news are that it could be worse, you could be trying to face Saipan with a Ranger. I honestly have no idea how you can hope to win that one. The second bit of good news is really a team-thing which is Saipan's strike ability is pretty low. While your planes are dying at least the rest of the team will be faring better than if he was using a Kaga or something. Saipan isn't invincible but its faster tougher planes and its ability to break out of dogfights with no losses let the player make mistakes and recover pretty easily. Hiryu has to be pretty close to perfect to win fighter engagements and you need RNGezus himself in the cockpit of Ranger's and have any chance. 

There really isn't any more advice anyone can give you unfortunately. Saipan isn't an "I Win" button but air superiority odds are in its favor. That's what it does best. You won't beat it at its own game  unless you are noticeably better than the Saipan player and can set up favorable situations against it reliably. You have to try to do what it doesn't do well, which is map coverage and striking where her planes aren't. 

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