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JaymiMendoza

WHY Wargaming is NERFING PREMIUM SHIPS

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9 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

I could go off all seriouslike on your pontificating response and provide a blow by blow counter contrasting current BB play in the game with how it ended up RL in ww2, but doubt it would make a lick of difference to you or anybody else. it's funny how the WG hardcore longtimers will totally ignore fictional play in the game, yet go all real life historical on sub play to the point of foaming at the mouth rabies.

so I won't even bother to bring it up.

it's an arcade game. realism has a place in the game, but if you look at the role of, and #'s of BBs in play, you have to realize that WG could, and probably will, incorporate subs seamlessly, and 'soon.' there is no way the gameplay, or effect on the game, could be any worse than CVs.

and they wouldn't even have to nerf a premium ship while doing so.

No it is just WG will not touch speed of ships. A 5kt ship  is unworkable. At that point you might as well have players playing "forts" , becuase that is about effectively the speed of a sub underwater in this game.

 

Also: "underwater" does not exist in this game nor does depth of water. All that demands 3 dimensions , this game is actually not 3 dimensional. 

Edited by Strachwitz666

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not_acceptable    1,576
3 minutes ago, Strachwitz666 said:

No it is just WG will not touch speed of ships. A 5kt ship  is unworkable. At that point you might as well have players playing "forts" , becuase that is about effectively the speed of a sub underwater in this game.

low tier US BBs are already about the same speed as islands, and upper tier BBs are usually played like one. your argument is not an argument, it's exactly the sort of 'thinking' I referenced when referring to the irrational responses to subs. fantasy BB gameplay already exists, but shall not be extended to submarines, because. gifs, foil hats, trolling won't change the illogic used.

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8 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

low tier US BBs are already about the same speed as islands, and upper tier BBs are usually played like one. your argument is not an argument, it's exactly the sort of 'thinking' I referenced when referring to the irrational responses to subs. fantasy BB gameplay already exists, but shall not be extended to submarines, because. gifs, foil hats, trolling won't change the illogic used.

Also: "underwater" does not exist in this game nor does depth of water. All that demands 3 dimensions , this game is actually not 3 dimensional. 

 

That's about as rational,logical, and mathematical(if you understand what those words mean) as you can get, to why subs are not in the game. The game only has 2 dimensions.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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not_acceptable    1,576
4 minutes ago, Strachwitz666 said:

Also: "underwater" does not exist in this game nor does depth of water. All that demands 3 dimensions , this game is actually not 3 dimensional. 

 

That's about as rational and mathematical(if you understand what those two words mean) as you can get, to why subs are not in the game. The game only has 2 dimensions.

just looked thru WGs game description. it does not include "2 dimensional" anywhere.

you actually believe aircraft are flying at surface level? checking specs on WW2 aircraft, but as I recall, they flew over the waves. but don't let this slow you down.

also you might check into smoke effects. if it were surface level, aircraft would be able to see them thru smoke. wait a sec, I see where you're coming from. there are no aircraft in the game, my mistake.

sorry, my bad.

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8 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

just looked thru WGs game description. it does not include "2 dimensional" anywhere.

you actually believe aircraft are flying at surface level? checking specs on WW2 aircraft, but as I recall, they flew over the waves. but don't let this slow you down.

also you might check into smoke effects. if it were surface level, aircraft would be able to see them thru smoke. wait a sec, I see where you're coming from. there are no aircraft in the game, my mistake.

sorry, my bad.

I take it you might not understand that "slant range" and "effective ceiling" (two AA gunnery terms) do not exist in this game and what the implications are(in a mathematical sense) that they do not.

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50 minutes ago, hardtodie said:

please explain then

 

Slant range is how far a AA gun can hit an airplane at altitude.  In the game an AA gun that can shoot 5KM  ,can shoot an airplane at  an infinite height as long as the ground distance is 5km. Planes in this game do not fly at different altitudes, simply because different altitudes do not exist in the game. Ergo , no third dimesion.

 

Effective ceiling is how high a AA gun can shoot effectively , In game all AA guns can shoot 'UP" to an infinite distance. Because there is no "up" . Also in game a 30 cal mg can fire as high as a 5" cannon , that should not happen either,

 

The end result, is ships in this game do not have AA" bubbles" , it could be said they(ships and their AA guns) have AA "cylinders" if you think of the altitude as infinite,, but what they really have is a  circle and the Z axis(altitude) always equals one(would actually be 0), or for a cylinder model  it is "undefined" , forget how the math/spatial geometry would work there. (I think that is how the program equation would state it, been many years since I thought much of such things)

 

Now where is gets "weird" is how the game does , shell arcs and things like dive-bomber drops ,and how all that   works.   that would take a graphics developer /professional game designer to tell you , I don't know. And you would probably need to know alot about game programming  just to understand those dudes.  It really is quite amazing to think of all the math equations running to make this game work.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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not_acceptable    1,576
17 minutes ago, Strachwitz666 said:

Slant range is how far a AA gun can hit an airplane at altitude.  In the game an AA gun that can shoot 5KM  ,can shoot an airplane at  an infinite height as long as the ground distance is 5km. Planes in this game do not fly at different altitudes, simply because different altitudes do not exist in the game. Ergo , no third dimesion.

 

Effective ceiling is how high a AA gun can shoot effectively , In game all AA guns can shoot 'UP" to an infinite distance. Because there is no "up" . Also in game a 30 cal mg can fire as high a a 5" cannon , that should not happen either,

 

The end result, is ships in this game do not have AA" bubbles" , it could be said they(ships and their AA guns) have AA "cylinders" if you think of the altitude as infinite,, but what they really have is a  circle and the Z axis(altitude) always equals one(would actually be 0), or for a cylinder model  it is "undefined" , forget how the math/spatial geometry would work there. (I think that is how the program equation would state it, been many years since I thought much of such things)

ahhh, so what you're saying is because it's an AA cylinder instead of an AA bubble, it's two dimensional? uh, dude, you might want to recheck something there.

this was in defense of your earlier statement that because it's two dimensional, submarines cannot exist in the game. I don't argue with flat earthers, I won't argue with you here. L M A O

WG has already introduced the 3 dimensional game, inserted it deeper, and more of it with deep water torps, so it's not just atmospherically based. they are prepping us for subs. 

I know what i'm talking about now, I have a purple rectangle in my sig.

Edited by not_acceptable
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hardtodie    2

Man being somewhat mathematically inclined myself. I suggest the reason for the way the

AA system now works is because of 1- the expense of  implementing the mathematics you suggest

into the game and 2- is the amount of disc space it required on each computer using the game.

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20 minutes ago, hardtodie said:

Man being somewhat mathematically inclined myself. I suggest the reason for the way the

AA system now works is because of 1- the expense of  implementing the mathematics you suggest

into the game and 2- is the amount of disc space it required on each computer using the game.

Right, It would take a whole ton of "math /computer power" to move a ship across the "sea", while running realistic AA gun arcs for each ship and each gun in a true 3 dimensional simulation. Then planes at varying altitudes? and do that over the net? wow or crashy game LOL

 

They lost me at graphics calculators , those little machines made my brain obsolete.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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57 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

ahhh, so what you're saying is because it's an AA cylinder instead of an AA bubble, it's two dimensional? uh, dude, you might want to recheck something there.

this was in defense of your earlier statement that because it's two dimensional, submarines cannot exist in the game. I don't argue with flat earthers, I won't argue with you here. L M A O

WG has already introduced the 3 dimensional game, inserted it deeper, and more of it with deep water torps, so it's not just atmospherically based. they are prepping us for subs. 

I know what i'm talking about now, I have a purple rectangle in my sig.

Deep water torpedoes? No, they simply "pass though" DD's, they don't go under them , as far as the game program is concerned.  "Draft" being that dreaded third dimension, again does not exist LOL

 

Note: not having seen them myself, I dont know if they hit cruisers or pass thoughthem as well.

 

I will say they do use 3 dimensions to a great extent in modeling ship models and  shell hits , they have to , But that modeling just extends to ships and the "boxy" recreations of them and the sheel fire. Still very admirable what they accomplished there , and again amazing at the sheer computational "stuff" going on in that 

 

 

Edited by Strachwitz666

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On 11/23/2017 at 11:33 AM, Octavius_Cutler said:

Just don't touch my Gremy 

 I don’t want to touch yours, I just want the ability to touch mine. 

But (sniff sniff) it can never be......    suffer the gamers :etc_swear:

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Lance53    89
On 11/20/2017 at 5:39 AM, JaymiMendoza said:

Coming changes for update 0.6.14 
Pan Asia Destroyer
From Tier 4 to Tier 9, each PA DD comes with the upgraded torpedo of the previous tier, and its own torpedo now requires research.
Japanese Torpedo Reload Reload time of all torpedoes across Japanese ships is now in line with their DDs, thus:
Reload time of Type 90 mod.1 torpedo on Myoko's (and her various clones) reduced from 82 seconds to 76 seconds
Mogami, Atago, and Ibuki, it reduced from 109 seconds to 101 seconds
Harukaze it reduced from 121 seconds to 101 seconds.
Reload time of Type93 mod.2 torpedo on Ibuki reduced from 120 seconds to 112 seconds.
Miscellaneous
Giulio Cesare Torpedo damage reduction increased from 19% to 30.4%.
Aigle 180° rotation time of main guns increased from 18 seconds to 27.7 seconds, HE shell damage is now 2000. Her engine output is even stronger reversing.
Colorado Hitpoint on B Hull increased from 50100 to 59300, and no change to her Repair Party. Her main gun accuracy is adjusted to 1.9σ from 1.8σ (Hull A) and 2.0σ (Hull B), respectively.
Abruzzi 180° rotation time of the main gun reduced from 24 seconds to 22.5 seconds.
Roma Torpedo damage reduction increased from 25% to 38.5%.
Richelieu Torpedo damage reduction increased from 19% to 32.5%. Her Engine Boost now provides: +8% to maximum speed, higher engine output, activate for 180 seconds.
Salem She now uses the same Damage Control Party on destroyers.
Aircraft Carrier
All aircraft carriers now have a unified 20% basic resistance to catching fire. Thus, the change is a buff to tier 4 ~ 5 CVs but a nerf to tier 6 ~ 10 CVs.
Damage Control Party on all CVs: Activation time increased from 5 seconds to 30 seconds.
US CV Bogue: New and unique flight control 1-1-1 (FT-TB-DB), plane reservation is now 10-9-9 (for the top hull, note that stock-hull US CVs have less hangar capacity except Lexington).
Independence: Unique flight control 1-1-1.
Ranger: New and unique flight Control 1-1-2, plane reservation is 18-18-37.
Lexington: New and unique flight control 1-1-2, plane reservation is 18-18-36. Only top dive bomber can equip 1000lb AP bomb (same bomb as Enterprise's, research and purchase required).
Essex: New and unique flight control 2-1-2, plane reservation 36-18-36. No tier 9 torpedo bombers. Same DB rule as Lexington for 1000lb AP bomb.
Midway: New and unique flight control 2-2-2, plane reservation 46-45-45. Tier 8 torpedo bombers only. Same DB rule as stated before.
Lexington, Essex and Midway's AP DB squadrons have the same accuracy as Enterprise's in auto drop and 20% more accurate in manual drop.
Miscellaneous
Rearranged and re-config.ed the AA guns on Duke of York.
The thorough deck armor (from bow to stern) on Sims reduced from 16mm to 13mm.
The thorough deck armor on Mahan reduced from 16mm to 15mm.
The thorough deck armor on Shimakaze reduced from 19mm to 18mm.
Doubloon refund of Perth, Belfast, Kutuzov will end with the update 0.6.14.

 

Dude, you are so totally and hopelessly confused.   Most of the things on this list that you posted are BUFFS TO SHIPS, NOT NERFS.   And most of them are not Premium Ships either.   If this is all that you have to make the case for your contention here, then your argument is clearly ludicrous and invalid in nature.  For these things that you posted do absolutely nothing at all to support or prove your allegation.

 

You are not making any attempt at all here in this thread, to engage in any sort of rational discussion.   That is the very definition of being a troll.

Do you actually own any Premium Ships?   If so, which of your premium ships do you believe has been nerfed?

You need to engage in some kind of coherent dialogue here, if you want anyone to understand what you are attempting to say.

.

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That was the reference for the 2 ships he started the thread about...

1st:

1 hour ago, Lance53 said:

Giulio Cesare Torpedo damage reduction increased from 19% to 30.4%.

I think the language barrier was a legitimate excuse for the misunderstanding that the Guilio Cesare's damage being reduced (as in lessened) by 30.4% instead of only being reduced 19% is understandable...

2nd:

1 hour ago, Lance53 said:

The thorough deck armor (from bow to stern) on Sims reduced from 16mm to 13mm.

Many have postulated that the Sim's deck armor being reduced from 16-13mm is a buff due to more over penning but Little White Mouse actually broke it down to confirm that 88mm HE 2nds(6ships)will now do damage they couldn't before & 203-210mm AP mains[all T7-10 cruisers(except Ruskies & Brits I do believe)& T5 & 6 IJN]will not automatically ricochet...IOW at very very long range there's a slim chance for AP damage...

MOUSE'S THOUGHTS:  This is not a significant nerf.  It is a nerf, however and that makes me have a sad for premium ships.

 

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I will say I am going back to Bogue. That ship is going to be a real Bogieman now.  Damage will go through the roof. since will now be able to hit again after DC is used , and not just wait on targets like that.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

 

Many have postulated that the Sim's deck armor being reduced from 16-13mm is a buff due to more over penning but Little White Mouse actually broke it down to confirm that 88mm HE 2nds(6ships)will now do damage they couldn't before & 203-210mm AP mains[all T7-10 cruisers(except Ruskies & Brits I do believe)& T5 & 6 IJN]will not automatically ricochet...IOW at very very long range there's a slim chance for AP damage...

MOUSE'S THOUGHTS:  This is not a significant nerf.  It is a nerf, however and that makes me have a sad for premium ships.

 

It does breach a line about the inviolability of premium ships. And I greatly think that is a good idea as premi's now lock in whole tiers and ships, because every ship/plane/etc. has to relate to the strength/weakness of those ships for a stable tier structure. Part of the biggest reason they can't fix CV's is because there are premi CV's IMO-  Saipan came along and that was it.

 

Now I don't buy ships , but I don't think I have a bias, some people would automatically say I do, or anyone else like me. 

Edited by Strachwitz666

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Wolcott    394
On 11/23/2017 at 4:25 PM, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Media doesn't work like that with good reason.  Why would anyone go to the hard work of producing a comic, movie, game, painting, novel, song, etc if the first person that shells out money takes over ownership of all of your hard work?  If I buy a copy of Star Wars, I do not suddenly own the rights to Luke Skywalker and Mark Hamill's likeness.

If only WG felt that same way. All that hard work modeling beautiful ships like the Imperator Nikolai and they refuse to rebalance it. If WG wants to nerf a premium then so be it, it's their game.

The Nikolai is the only premium ship I covet, but WG prefers to appease the few early birds who bought it when it first appeared in the premium shop. Well, if they don't want my money.

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aethervox    410
2 hours ago, Wolcott said:

money.

You hit the nail on the head. Follow the money.

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