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EasternSun

Onesides Win/Losses are not caused by MM. It's the Maps and Spawn location

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EasternSun    24

Looking at each time a team gets rolled it's simple to see that it's how the game places players on the maps. Slow BB's get placed in the farthest spawn alone. Caps that should not even be considered are a first attack location you see three ships drive right into because they where spawned closer. 

 

You want to fix this spawn the teams closer to a proper fleet layout. Stop placing slow highly visible ships in the front but don't place BB's so far away from their support class that CV's can one shot them before their even loaded. Also on the load screen there should be map objectives. I just recently checked out World of Warplanes 2.0 and does a good job of showing the player what is needed for the map. Why can't WOWS do the same? Give them incentives to gain XP by supporting and playing their class. This way players will try to cover BB's with AA. DD's will scout, and BB's should be tanking. Sure we have some rewards for those but in WOWPs they really do add to the profits of the match. Right now their a slight bonus. Nothing that really makes the player want to fulfill the role. This should also show in the game so they can see their impact on the match.

 

 

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Silver_kun    85

@EasternSun True that.

BTW long time no see.

Also I'd like to add that WG has statistics wise proven there's a 1\5 chance of getting steamrolled even if all the players are symmetrically skilled and equal.

 

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EasternSun    24

Nothing can stop them, RNG and Detonations will always have an impact on a steamroll. I would be ecstatic if only 1/5 of my matches where that way. I think the lenght and quality of the matches could be affected though with these changes. if three ships are dead in 3 minutes, that's possible to have even if both sides have parity. I've seen it in ranked. But those were so rare it didn't feel noticeable.

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Silver_kun    85
3 minutes ago, EasternSun said:

Nothing can stop them, RNG and Detonations will always have an impact on a steamroll. I would be ecstatic if only 1/5 of my matches where that way. I think the lenght and quality of the matches could be affected though with these changes. if three ships are dead in 3 minutes, that's possible to have even if both sides have parity. I've seen it in ranked. But those were so rare it didn't feel noticeable.

Yeah detonations are a complete rebalance.

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OgreMkV    249

I dunno, in my matches, it always seems like the players who spawn on one side, think the best caps are on the other side. They want to traverse the entire map before trying to cap. 

In the team base mode, there's that one guy (usually a BB on my team) who charges forward and is focused by the entire other team, killed in seconds. Then we're behind and have to do stupid things to try and make up the difference. 

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Taichunger    1,942

OP is correct. ROFLstomps are caused by the overall effect of...

 

1. RNG -- small accumulations of differences work out to major effects on outcomes

2. crappy channeled and choke maps that split teams  up into tiny groups which accelerate collapses

3. Split spawns

4. Cancer damage from CVs -- CVs are key to WG's management of game duration, cancer damage kills ships and speeds collapses. WG is making them more survivable in the "rebalance" because games in which CVs are killed last longer, while if both CVs survive they are shorter

5. Detonations, which increase kills and speed collapses

6. The two tier MM that provides a range of fodder for top tier ships, which speeds collapses. WG won't go to +/- 1 tier because it knows games will be longer, not because you have to wait longer in the queue. WG prioritizes getting ships back in the queue as fast as possible, as players search for hard fought enjoyable matches that never occur.

7. The Great IJN torp nerf and the introduction of radar, both of which get DDs killed more rapidly. That is why it refuses to fix the odious radar-through-islands, because it knows that the radar/sonar garbage makes games go faster. Prior to radar a DD like Fubuki, well played, could dictate the flow of the match.

8. The CV imbalance: one CV line is always crappier than the other, and of course, there is almost always a great disparity between CV driver talent. The result is one-sided games whose outcome is not in doubt from the moment the CV loads in. 

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DeadMeat_015    213

maybe all maps spawn should be a very tight ball in the middle of spawn like this

(the enemy is North)

BB BB BB BB

CA CA CA CA

DD DD DD DD

 

Then there would be discussion on tactics that is lacking now. But I do forsee lots of salty I'm the Admiral now crud in chat

Edited by DeadMeat_015

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aethervox    410

That's it! I knew there was a reason for too much losing.

 It was the Map & the Spawn, you know, something inanimate.

 Great work, Sherlock. -10.

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There are several maps where one side or the other has a much better tactical advantage. some it is almost certain victory. i have never bothered to trace down the topics or discussion(here and on reddit and elsewhere) of each maps advantages and disadvantages, but they do exist.

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nuttybiscuit    575
1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

OP is correct. ROFLstomps are caused by the overall effect of...

 

8. The CV imbalance: one CV line is always crappier than the other, and of course, there is almost always a great disparity between CV driver talent. The result is one-sided games whose outcome is not in doubt from the moment the CV loads in. 

I had a battle versus Farazellath yesterday, his Essex shut my Taiho down, wiped my squadrons off the map, he came top of his team, I came bottom of my own. Who won?

Spoiler

My team won, Fara's lost.

 

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Taichunger    1,942
16 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

I had a battle versus Farazellath yesterday, his Essex shut my Taiho down, wiped my squadrons off the map, he came top of his team, I came bottom of my own. Who won?

  Reveal hidden contents

My team won, Fara's lost.

 

 

Of course, the experience of one counterexample completely refutes a general trend. This is why statistics and research are useless, and nobody bothers to accumulate data. Thanks! 

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nuttybiscuit    575
21 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

 

Of course, the experience of one counterexample completely refutes a general trend. This is why statistics and research are useless, and nobody bothers to accumulate data. Thanks! 

offer statistics to prove your argument that cvs decide battles more than other factors, inc dds.

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Taichunger    1,942
16 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

offer statistics to prove your argument that cvs decide battles more than other factors, inc dds.


Don't need stats: WG already decided that for us, when it hard balanced them in MM, restricted their numbers, and banned them from Clan Wars because their influence on the outcome would be overpowering. That ship sailed two years ago. 



 

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Crucis    2,649
2 hours ago, OgreMkV said:

I dunno, in my matches, it always seems like the players who spawn on one side, think the best caps are on the other side. They want to traverse the entire map before trying to cap. 

In the team base mode, there's that one guy (usually a BB on my team) who charges forward and is focused by the entire other team, killed in seconds. Then we're behind and have to do stupid things to try and make up the difference. 

This is one that drives me nuts.  You spawn on the far left of your team's spawn and insist on spending the next 3-4 minutes crossing your spawn to go to the far right side of the map.  Utterly ridiculous waste of time.

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Crucis    2,649
6 minutes ago, Taichunger said:


Don't need stats: WG already decided that for us, when it hard balanced them in MM, restricted their numbers, and banned them from Clan Wars because their influence on the outcome would be overpowering. That ship sailed two years ago. 



 

I agree with Tai here.  If there's a large mismatch in talent or loadouts between two opposing CV's, that creates a massive advantage for one team.

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nuttybiscuit    575
16 minutes ago, Taichunger said:


Don't need stats: WG already decided that for us, when it hard balanced them in MM, restricted their numbers, and banned them from Clan Wars because their influence on the outcome would be overpowering. That ship sailed two years ago. 
 

1st you state your arguments are based on objective statistical data, and my empirical gameplay experience irrelevant, "Of course, the experience of one counterexample completely refutes a general trend. This is why statistics and research are useless, and nobody bothers to accumulate data. Thanks! " and now you claim you don't need stats. Sounds very fishy to me.:fish_book:

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Fletcher7_1944    246

  Spawn location does seem to have a greater-than-needed effect on outcome.   I see many, many really stupid spawns:   like one ship getting spawned all by itself way out on a flank;  Ships being spawned in front of cover (leading to lots of turn arounds, and leaving players dangerously vulnerable right from the start);  support cruisers being spawned front and center- where they become the first thing spotted and focused down.  (or are forced to show full broadside to the red team as they scramble to reposition before the fighting starts)   Or BB's- esp slow US BB's- being spawned so far in the back,that they're basically a non factor in the fight due to how long it takes them to  just get TO it.

  You can often guage your chances, and the team's chances just by a glance at the team spawn.   As often as not, it looks like someone just flung a handful of ships at the map and called it a spawn...

  For example,  if I join the queue with a support type cruiser, like say Pepsi, New Orleans or La Glass, and get North it almost guaranteed that I will end up on the South side right in the middle, and far forward.  Often in front of any destroyers.   This is especially true in Standard matches, where the reds will come charging right down the middle.  Rarely do I get enough time to get the hell out of the way before I'm spotted by half the red team. 95% of the time these games fall in the "complete waste of camo, flags and consumables" category.  AKA "Why did I even bother to press play"

  The split spawns don't help either.  

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VGLance    1,023

If BBs are getting deleted by a CV before they load into the match it's the BB player's fault for being a sabotaging a-hole to his team mates by playing on a technical infrastructure whether internet or hardware or both that isn't capable of loading within the 60 second window.

 

No excuses for being too poor or in a bad area with unreliable internet. If you can't bring the right tools for the job, do a different job or stick to a game mode that won't piss off other players. 

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Taichunger    1,942
21 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

1st you state your arguments are based on objective statistical data, and my empirical gameplay experience irrelevant, "Of course, the experience of one counterexample completely refutes a general trend. This is why statistics and research are useless, and nobody bothers to accumulate data. Thanks! " and now you claim you don't need stats. Sounds very fishy to me.:fish_book:

 

Obviously, if you think that one example refutes anything, then logic is lost on you.  

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_V12    497
2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

 

Obviously, if you think that one example refutes anything, then logic is lost on you.  

 

While I disagree fundamentally with how you interpreted your own data on game lengths, I do respect you enough to give you a piece of advice regarding the poster you're arguing with:  don't.  He's a moron.  He tried to use "personal experience and empirical data" to explain that HE bombs did more damage to KM and IJN BBs.  It took a half dozen people to explain to him that wasn't how HE damage worked before he gave up.

 

And he thinks the GZ is awesome.

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SteelClaw    325

Strait map is the route of all evil when it comes to team placement and many players having no clue how to play it in ANY MODE. 

 

160px-Strait.png

Edited by SteelClaw

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nuttybiscuit    575
58 minutes ago, _V12 said:

 

snip

 

And he thinks the GZ is awesome.

You seem to be developing an obsession with me, if your only reason for commenting in this thread is to make, offtopic, personal insults, evidently derived from a sense of inadequacy of some kind:Smile_glasses:. It is an unhealthy mind that follows commentators across forum threads for this singular purpose.

Fair winds and calm seas Captain.

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