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FleetAdmiral_Assassin

Invisible Bismark 3k away detecting me

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Today had a game in which my Benson was sitting in smoke (admittedly firing out - not something I usually do but I needed to complete a mission). Saw a Bismark enter my smoke from behind me and start firing at me. But if you watch the replay you'll notice when he gets about 3km away from me (in my smoke, we're both firing) he becomes invisible, yet continues to detect me. The nearest other enemy ship is 5k away (my detection range while firing from smoke is only 2.5km). He shouldn't have been able to see me, while I should have been able to see him. Yet you'll clearly see him blink out and remain invisible for several seconds. Even if he hadn't been firing, I should have detected him at that range.

 

What am I missing? Here's a link to the replay.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ujknbsm86dxbnrc/20171118_124802_PASD008-Benson-1945_23_Shards.wowsreplay?dl=0

 

 

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Without having watched the replay:

He could have been using hydro, or have been using the upgrade which increases the guaranteed detection distance to 3km.

If it had been 20 seconds since he fire his main guns, the smoke would block you from seeing him.

Secondary fire has no effect on spotting.

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I use the detection module on my Bismarck.  Brings definite detection range to 3km.  And if he is just using secondaries, he wouldn't be detected.

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If you were both in smoke, and he spotted you at 3km, it's a pretty safe bet he was using the module.

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If he has the acquisition module installed instead of concealment he'll see you at proxy range +50%, which is 3km.

Also, your name cuts off in an ... unfortunate manner, at 1920x1080.

GfUdgAX.jpg

 

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6 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Kudos OP for posting a replay with your question.

Indeed.

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16 minutes ago, Lert said:

If he has the acquisition module installed instead of concealment he'll see you at proxy range +50%, which is 3km.

An impressive sneak up but is that advisable? After all, that is awfully close to a DD w torps. If the Bis gave it to the Ben, then all well & good for the Big Bis, lol.

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2 minutes ago, aethervox said:

An impressive sneak up but is that advisable? After all, that is awfully close to a DD w torps. If the Bis gave it to the Ben, then all well & good for the Big Bis, lol.

You'll also see torpedoes earlier (to be exact, from 20% further away than their inherent detection range) which will give you more time to evade them.

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Quote

 

Proximity spotting

At 2 km ships will automatically detect each other regardless of LoS, making it possible for ships to be detected even if they are hiding inside a smoke screen or behind terrain. The ship upgrade Target Acquisition System Modification 1 will extend it permanently to 3 km.

 

 

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If you were not spotted until ~3 km., assured  acquisition module instead of concealment module.

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1 hour ago, Sovereigndawg said:

3k thru smoke and Islands.

through smoke yes

Through island - unless you have los, or allies ship, or planes otherwise NO

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14 minutes ago, ObiwankzKenobi said:

through smoke yes

Through island - unless you have los, or allies ship, or planes otherwise NO

Are you positive because 2k acquisition works thru Islands so 3k should too. I thought it did, I will have to try and see now, or we could ask the authority @LittleWhiteMouse she always knows.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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Just now, Sovereigndawg said:

Are you positive because 2k acquisition works thru Islands so 3k should too. I thought it did I will have to try and see now. or we could ask the authority @LittleWhiteMouse she always knows.

If they're using the Target Acquisition Mod 1, their auto-detect will indeed by 3km instead of 2km.  Yes, this works even through islands and smoke.

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16 minutes ago, ObiwankzKenobi said:

through smoke yes

Through island - unless you have los, or allies ship, or planes otherwise NO

assured acquisition works thru islands and modules like that (as well as hydro and radar) just increase the assured acquisition range.

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To some degree this was my concern about the smoke changes in that any ship that can see YOU in smoke being passive, then conversely you should be able to see THEM. Especially if they are a BB and even more if they are firing on you (primaries/secondaries-whatever).

These mechanics are still pretty dumb and need work. I just had a game in an Izumo where a Des Moines was stealth firing by only exposing less than half of his ship. At 12km this was annoying. When I got to 9km or less and still couldn't see him it got REALLY frustrating. They need to fix the overall mechanic for this. I understand why it works that way, but players in that scenario (not firing over islands) shouldn't be able to abuse it. I mean seriously if that were real life there would be no doubt about seeing a ship firing at you from that distance. 

 

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TASM1 is hilarious on some very specific situations.

 

A while back, the batcj of red ships were in this small cluster of islands and they were camping it, shooting up guys as they tried to approach.  They had cover, they had smoke, they had radar, they had hydro.

 

However, a Zao from our team went up to beach himself with this island that was next to where the reds were camping.  Sure enough, he detected them for us and we proceeded to massacre what was left of them in that area.  One of the reds was saying in chat... "Wait, that Zao has TASM?  Who the f--k uses TASM on a Zao???"

 

Apparently the one that just proximity spotted them :Smile_hiding:  That mod being used on super stealthy Zao is extraordinarily rare.  It was probably the only time in 100 matches he was able to leverage that thing the way he did!

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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On 11/18/2017 at 5:00 PM, armorama said:

To some degree this was my concern about the smoke changes in that any ship that can see YOU in smoke being passive, then conversely you should be able to see THEM. Especially if they are a BB and even more if they are firing on you (primaries/secondaries-whatever).

These mechanics are still pretty dumb and need work. I just had a game in an Izumo where a Des Moines was stealth firing by only exposing less than half of his ship. At 12km this was annoying. When I got to 9km or less and still couldn't see him it got REALLY frustrating. They need to fix the overall mechanic for this. I understand why it works that way, but players in that scenario (not firing over islands) shouldn't be able to abuse it. I mean seriously if that were real life there would be no doubt about seeing a ship firing at you from that distance. 

 

This just happened to me in a game as well. A BB got within a certain distance (<4km) and could see me in smoke, but despite his secondaries going off like the Fourth of July I wasn't able to see him. It was incredibly frustrating and I was ultimately sunk as a result.

It seems as if they didn't walk through all the scenarios when planning on the smoke mechanic adjustment. The scenario you brought up (and the one I also experienced) should have been on a list of things that they had to consider. It's possible that, as often seems to be the case, it was "too difficult" to make an update that would fix this.

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1 hour ago, guns_at_last_light said:

This just happened to me in a game as well. A BB got within a certain distance (<4km) and could see me in smoke, but despite his secondaries going off like the Fourth of July I wasn't able to see him. It was incredibly frustrating and I was ultimately sunk as a result.

It seems as if they didn't walk through all the scenarios when planning on the smoke mechanic adjustment. The scenario you brought up (and the one I also experienced) should have been on a list of things that they had to consider. It's possible that, as often seems to be the case, it was "too difficult" to make an update that would fix this.

 

Working as intended.

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