Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Falls_USMC

USS Kidd Thoughts and Observations after 25 games (Now with 170+ Games Update)

133 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

722
[TF57]
Members
1,380 posts
4,063 battles
Quote

I like it way better than the Sims. Both are mostly gunboats, with a side of AA, but the Kidd has more guns, better AA, and that heal is amazing for a gunfighter. 

The other really huge difference is concealment. Since Kidd get tier 8 upgrades, it’s concealment is not much worse than anything it faces. Sims doesn’t get that module, so it’s at a gigantic disadvantage versus all tier 8 and 9. 

I know the heal is huge. I'm are aware Kidd would be better tier-for-tier.

My question is how good are they comparative to enemies they face?

Problem is, I find my T7s primarily playing T5-6-7; a T9 game is very rare; and my 8s play T8-9-10; a game without T10s is noteworthy.

I.e. the Simms, tier for tier, is weaker, but it routinely faces Farraguts, Akatsukis, Mahans; whereas Kidd routinely faces Z46/52, Fletcher/Gearing, Khaba: Is it THAT much better, given the opponents it faces?

I.e. is Kidd better against T9 than the Simms is against T6?

I suspect it probably is, given the usefulness of heal; but not sure...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,683 posts
7,756 battles

The Kidd is far better when uptiered, because it can mount the concealment mod. The Sims routinely faces ships that outspot it by a km, while the Kidd will always be within a few hundred meters. 

Edited by inktomi19d
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
478
[-GPS-]
Members
2,665 posts
27,369 battles
On 12/2/2017 at 12:17 AM, simuo said:

Yes please try that. I think Kidd has a unique role of a short range knife fighter. No ship contests caps better than a Kidd. To do that purpose you need high HP baseline. The extra heal charge doesn't matter if you die before you can use that. I also made further trade-off:

 

Vigilance vs. Demolition Expert: I choose DE. 2% increase means big to USN DD, it's a 40% increase over the 5% baseline. Without a good fire chance Kidd has no good tool to fight a BB - you can't rely on that 5 slow sad torpedo every 2 minutes, you absolutely need fire. Yes LWM says Vigilance is important. I know it's important, but Kidd has to give up that to stay competitive.

 

Priority Target and Preventive Maintenance: I select these tier-1 skills because Kidd is being shot by a lot. When I play Kidd, I expose myself much more than I do in a Fletcher/Gearing - It doesn't have good torpedo so hiding doesn't yield a ninja triple torpedo shot, plus Kidd goes faster than Fletcher/Gearing so it has the tool to stay alive.

 

kidd.captain.thumb.png.8518df280e96386229303ea4763fe8dc.png

 

With that build I am tracking 67.5% WR in 37 games. Not a unicorn, but not bad either.

 

kidd_wr.thumb.png.130a9d4d945dbd8bc42b3ce4823fa2a9.png

 

Thanks for sharing that build.

Personally, I use Radio Location on many DDs. Especially for any kind of team play.  However, the single set of torps makes RL considerably less valuable. The probability of hitting that DD in his smoke or advancing through that gap makes predictive torps somewhat questionable. 

I used to spec all USN DDs with Demo Expert before captain skills got rearranged. That 40% increase in fire chance is a big deal, even against other DDs. Might have to try this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,241
Members
4,094 posts
15,015 battles

I got Kidd in a Christmas Crate and decided to test her out in Training Room. (even though I suck driving DDs) For Kidd being pretty much a gunboat, how in blazes do you hit anything? The shell arcs are insane!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
110
[G_S]
Members
255 posts
23 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

I got Kidd in a Christmas Crate and decided to test her out in Training Room. (even though I suck driving DDs) For Kidd being pretty much a gunboat, how in blazes do you hit anything? The shell arcs are insane!

Slow BBs at range, and DDs up close.  And, practice.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,135
[DRACS]
Members
4,278 posts
On 09/01/2018 at 2:10 AM, ReddNekk said:

I got Kidd in a Christmas Crate and decided to test her out in Training Room. (even though I suck driving DDs) For Kidd being pretty much a gunboat, how in blazes do you hit anything? The shell arcs are insane!

Easy: At the range where most DDs spot each other, around 6km, her shells have a pretty decent arc. Whereas at long range, you're shelling battleships and will have no problems hitting them. The only real danger is if a russian DD manages to spot you at long range for some reason, like if you're radared.

Kidd is an *amazing* DD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
507
[HEROS]
Supertester
1,455 posts
5,687 battles

I've been playing my Kidd in Ranked to upset (literally) the balance of the DD vs DD fight heavily in my favor.  She will flat out outlast and outgun any other DD she faces 1vs1 except another Kidd.  She's VERY strong at that and as a result my WR8 in Ranked is pretty high (80%+) and it got me from Rank 17 to Rank 8.3 quite easily.  That said, OUTSIDE of her niche of DD hunting, her only other strength lays in her AA and when there are no CV's to harass, well, she becomes an effective spotter but her ability to land torpedoes (or not, because, you know, 1x5 Benson torps....) is heavily dependent on the abilities of whom the torps are launched at.  I managed to land 4 of them out of a salvo of 5 on an Amagi in ranked... but guess how... he straight lined it to the cap and ate them...  Other than that, most torpedo hits have been at suicide ranges.

 

She's quite well balanced as a result, but I doubt you'll see very many 150k+ damage games in her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,135
[DRACS]
Members
4,278 posts

You won't see many huge damage games in her. What you will see is many wins in Domination. What she contributes to her team is huge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,502
[SALVO]
Members
19,010 posts
19,219 battles
On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 12:26 AM, inktomi19d said:

The Kidd is far better when uptiered, because it can mount the concealment mod. The Sims routinely faces ships that outspot it by a km, while the Kidd will always be within a few hundred meters. 

There is probably a lot of truth to this, @inktomi19d .  While I think that the Sims can do OK when uptiered once you're in the gunfight, it will be at a concealment disadvantage due to the lack of the T8 concealment upgrade module.  That said, I've tended to have pretty decent success in the Sims when uptiered, mostly because I'd play very cautiously, trying to work around its concealment disadvantage.  Of course, it also helps to know the enemy DDs capabilities in this situation.  Know which ones are serious concealment threats to you and which ones aren't.  

One thing that does gall me about these two USN premium DDs is how much differently they play than regular USN tech tree DDs, due to their weak torpedo suites.  IJN premium DDs play the same as regular IJN DDs.  The Russian premium DDs pretty much play like regular tech tree Russian DDs (except for the Gremy and Leningrad having far better torps than their same tier regular tech tree counter parts).  So why is it that Russian premium DDs (except the party bote) have better torpedoes than their regular tech tree counterparts, but USN premium DDs have worse torpedoes than their regular tech tree counterparts?  After all, at tiers 7 and 8, USN DDs are turning into capable stealth torpedo DDs.  Oh, I suppose that one could say that you can  stealth torp with the Sims... with those damned 9 km, 49 kt sea mines!  But let's be real, neither the Sims nor the Kidd are serious torpedo boats.  Their torpedoes, while (barely) usable, don't really constitute a major threat.  They're really much more gunboat oriented, which is a little annoying insofar as it forces you into a playstyle that's a bit different from the tier 7 and 8 regular USN DDs.

Oh well.  Enough venting.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5,502
[SALVO]
Members
19,010 posts
19,219 battles
2 hours ago, KaptainKaybe said:

You won't see many huge damage games in her. What you will see is many wins in Domination. What she contributes to her team is huge.

Yeah, if you want to do any decent damage, you have to conserve your smoke for "selfish" smoke shooting and use the Kidd's single torpedo launcher's torps with extreme care.  Honestly, I rarely use them for blind firing into smoke, because IMO they're too valuable a weapon to have when you end up near enough to a larger enemy ship to make a well aimed launch on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,135
[DRACS]
Members
4,278 posts

I MUCH prefer Kidd over Sims. Sims is a relic from the past when the only two other DDs in the game was the IJN DD and the significantly weaker than it is now Mahan. Since then, it's been power crept really hard at that tier.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
267
[WOLFG]
[WOLFG]
Members
951 posts
6,920 battles

Hey guys, thought I'd bump this topic with a small update on the Kidd in case anyone out there is still following. 

I burned out on WoWS for a couple months and have just now been getting back into it. I'm at 63 games in the Kidd currently. Here are my stats according to Warships Today:

mQ97ROI.png

When you compare to my 25 game stats, it's really not that different, so the ship is pretty consistent. WR took a hit, but I knew that would happen. 68% W/R is almost impossible to maintain without consistently being in good Divisions. 

Again, this is all solo in Random Battles on the NA Server. 

Build remains the same as in the OP. 

A few notes of things: 

-Carrier tier doesn't matter. I finally had a game yesterday against a Midway and took down 18 planes with DFAA activated. 

-Hydro DDs and Radar CAs are still your worst enemies. Avoid at all costs unless the game depends on it. 

-In the last couple months, the ship doesn't seem to have gotten power creeped, but my sample size is still small. We'll see. 

-It should be emphasized that if you want to do high damage consistently, its hard in this ship. Your most productive games are often low damage affairs of capping and spotting and hitting DDs. 

-Be prepared to get shot at. I get focused in the Kidd more often than any other DD it seems. 

-Savvy CV captains will still be pain. I just had a CV very adeptly wait out my DFAA, then rotate planes on and off me, accepting some losses and kept me perma spotted until I died. Very very frustrating. 

 

If anyone out there still has any questions, or is struggling in this ship. Let me know! Happy to help however I can. 

Edited by Falls_USMC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
156
[GOFU]
Members
870 posts

My WR after 125 games is 59.38 % which I think is my best performance in a DD, damage is only 30k average so I echo what’s going on re high damage games are the exception rather than the rule. Still I think they did an ok job on this, cv’s don’t seem super rare to me like everyone says.

Warships today tells me I’m # 37 on list of best players on NA, for me that’s no small achievement 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
267
[WOLFG]
[WOLFG]
Members
951 posts
6,920 battles

Hey guys, thought I'd bump this topic since the Kidd is back in the store. Post any questions you have and I'll be happy to answer! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
267
[WOLFG]
[WOLFG]
Members
951 posts
6,920 battles

With the Kidd container missions making appearances, I figured this would be a good time to bump and update this. 

It's a rough time for DD players with post-patch cruisers seeing a lot of action, but the Kidd is certainly still very playable, albeit much tougher right now that usual. I played a few games yesterday and put up respectable numbers, and won 2 of 4. I'm mainly just bumping this for any players who may have gotten the Kidd in a container mission and are curious about how the ship plays. 

Through 83 games, my stats are holding pretty steady. I think this is about what you can expect from an above-average American DD player. Let me know if you guys have any questions! 

 

kidd 83.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
349 posts
4,174 battles

Earned Kidd via the crate missions, haven't had a chance to take her out yet.  Only going to have a 10-pt captain in her to start, sadly.  Looking through earlier comments, I saw someone said SE adds 8*400 HP, but if I'm not mistaken I think SE only adds 350/tier?  I hear really good things about Kidd, but DDs are easily my weakest class so the learning curve could be a challenge.  Looking forward to taking her for a spin soon though, and will definitely refer back to this thread as I gain points in her captain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
267
[WOLFG]
[WOLFG]
Members
951 posts
6,920 battles
3 hours ago, Uncle_Lou said:

Earned Kidd via the crate missions, haven't had a chance to take her out yet.  Only going to have a 10-pt captain in her to start, sadly.  Looking through earlier comments, I saw someone said SE adds 8*400 HP, but if I'm not mistaken I think SE only adds 350/tier?  I hear really good things about Kidd, but DDs are easily my weakest class so the learning curve could be a challenge.  Looking forward to taking her for a spin soon though, and will definitely refer back to this thread as I gain points in her captain.

Not sure where you saw 8,400, but it's definitely less than that. I don't run SE as part of my usual Kidd build, but with it I believe it bumps it to 19.5k which is definitely worth consideration. 

If you're weak in DDs then the Kidd is going to have a steep learning curve, but if your interest in the class revolves around contesting caps, as opposed to being a torp boat, there is no better place to start. Just be prepared for some radar induced deletions when you're just starting off. Hell, those still happen to me and I have tons of games in DDs. I'll keep watch on this thread though, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. DDs are probably the toughest class to play effectively in the meta right now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
243
[SYN]
Members
485 posts
9,789 battles

As a DD/CL player I hate CVs. I bought the Kidd so I could run it full AA to troll CVs if I see them in the que, but the reality is a C-hull Benson set up AA (ship and capt ie 7.2 km-manuel AA perk) is just as good or you can do it even better with a Fletcher and keep both sets of torpedo tubes. The problem is you just dont run into enough CVs to make up for the short-comings of such a build like you can in an Atlanta. Your gun bloom is an astounding 15.5km and with the additionional arc/float you cant really hit anything past 12 km anyway. 

The last week (50 battles or so) I have been running it as a "Pure" gunboat/cap contester. I play a cautiously reckless/recklessly cautious, aggressive playstyle that is high risk/high reward and she is "Butch". You pop a couple of DDs and a CA (survival not guaranteed or courted lol), smoke for your CAs early/mid game and it is almost always a win.

Here is one example, a surprise engagement with a Cleveland (really should have gone north around the island, but did not expect him there at the time lol)

 

These have been all solo also. I put this up here not to brag, because in reality I am not that good overall (just have a lot of experience and this ship suits my playstyle), but to show that this ship can be a blast to play if you like an aggressive playstyle.

5s0hMVk.jpg

 NN35l92.jpg

Spoiler

Full AA build Capt

KjhSxCN.jpg

 

Edited by DeadMeat_015
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
267
[WOLFG]
[WOLFG]
Members
951 posts
6,920 battles
9 hours ago, DeadMeat_015 said:

As a DD/CL player I hate CVs. I bought the Kidd so I could run it full AA to troll CVs if I see them in the que, but the reality is a C-hull Benson set up AA (ship and capt ie 7.2 km-manuel AA perk) is just as good or you can do it even better with a Fletcher and keep both sets of torpedo tubes. The problem is you just dont run into enough CVs to make up for the short-comings of such a build like you can in an Atlanta. Your gun bloom is an astounding 15.5km and with the additionional arc/float you cant really hit anything past 12 km anyway. 

The last week (50 battles or so) I have been running it as a "Pure" gunboat/cap contester. I play a cautiously reckless/recklessly cautious, aggressive playstyle that is high risk/high reward and she is "Butch". You pop a couple of DDs and a CA (survival not guaranteed or courted lol), smoke for your CAs early/mid game and it is almost always a win.

Here is one example, a surprise engagement with a Cleveland (really should have gone north around the island, but did not expect him there at the time lol)

Glad you're enjoying the ship, man! Those stats are nothing to scoff at. Especially the win rate. I have to ask though, why didn't you switch to AP on that Cleveland? I imagine he was close enough to you, would have melted him. 

I still run full AA build on mine mostly, but I very much like the idea of a 'selfish' gunboat build for it. I've played my Gearing Captain with SE and DE on the Kidd a couple times and those extra HP really make a difference. 

And it's semantics, but the Kidd does have higher mid-range AA values than Fletcher, and significantly more in every aura than the C-Hull Benson. 

Just have to remember, you didn't give up a set of tubes for AA, you gave it up for a Heal and Fletcher guns on a T8. The AA is just a nice bonus. 

Edited by Falls_USMC
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,773 posts
9,352 battles

Hey

I have to admit; I struggle with the Kidd as a DD.  I struggle with the gun arcs to do any real damage, the rudder is sluggish and having only the one set of torps with a long reload is kind of a downer for me.  Sure she can shoot down a ton of airplanes, but how often do we get carriers these days.  I just haven't put my mind around how to play this thing.  

I like what Falls USMC said:  "If you're weak in DDs then the Kidd is going to have a steep learning curve, but if your interest in the class revolves around contesting caps, as opposed to being a torp boat, there is no better place to start."    Yeah, I'm still learning; either I have very good games or they suck.

 

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
267
[WOLFG]
[WOLFG]
Members
951 posts
6,920 battles
40 minutes ago, sasquatch_research said:

I just haven't put my mind around how to play this thing.  

either I have very good games or they suck.

Welcome to the life of DDs. The Kidd doesn't play exactly like too many others. The worst thing you can do is charge into the cap right at the jump. That's a great way to take a torpedo, or get lit up by every radar ship because they all want to kill DDs, and none of them are on cooldown at the start of a match. Skirt the cap and scout for your team. If they're cooperative, drop smoke for them. With the new spotting XP mechanics you actually do get some rewards for spotting. 

Some of my most 'productive' games in the Kidd are low damage affairs in the 20-30k range, but you can be incredibly dangerous to the enemy team just through your stealth and your ability to trade damage with DDs and stay in the fight. Just remember the longer the match goes on, the more valuable you become, and the heal plays a huge part of that, so manage it well. Once you get used the gun arcs, they melt enemy DDs, you just have to watch for torps. Vigilance is not a bad skill to spec into if you're having trouble with torps in knife fights. 

But it can be a very boom-or-bust ship, for sure. Just know the maps, know your enemies, and keep situational awareness of where radar ships are. They are your absolute worst enemy. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×