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Sere_Pj

Clan Battles

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This is my first post at this subject about clan battles. We as a clan are having some fun in the clan battles when you get to play against a team of Rental ships like we have, pretty well balanced for both. But here lately that has changed in the last week of battles. Yes we do have a lot of fun playing this game of the Clans, but when you face a team of non-rental tier 10 ships it is no contest, let the seal clubbing begin, a little disheartening for a clan and we do know this is our first time at this, we as a clan mostly play Tier 6-7-8 not tier 10 so they have the advantage. If this is the way that WG is going to continue this format for clan battles, we won't play them anymore, no fun in losing money on rental ships with our money at stake for captain skills and Modules and Signals. We would rather WG look at the difference between the tier 10 ships and rentals, ( we do know they are nerfed to some point ) so don't tell us any different on that. If you would fix the balance of the teams for the battles to resemble maybe half rental and half player owned that would be fine. And here is the big negative I know you will give me in a answer back, Nope not happening, nada, No. It is all about the high tier players am I correct? I know it is because you did not want player feedback before the clan battles started, you just listened to the high tier players. Well at Tier 6-7-8 we are all premium players 27 to be exact. That's a lot of money going into the high tier players pockets. The majority of your player base is in our tier we out number all the high tier players. I know you won't listen to any of us about the clan battles but I had to give it a shot, and by the way we quit the clan battles the other night half way through it because of the slaughter by the seal clubbers that play tier 10 on a regular basis.

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6 minutes ago, Sere_Pj said:

We would rather WG look at the difference between the tier 10 ships and rentals, ( we do know they are nerfed to some point ) so don't tell us any different on that.

There is only one difference in stats between rentals and 'normal' ships, and that is that you cannot mount Camouflage on Rental ships. Other than that they are 100% identical.

However, there is still one important difference that is not tied to stats, it's tied to the players. Right now Hindenburg is a rental ship, so comparing someone who has 100+ Battles in the tech tree Hindenburg and someone who maybe plays this ship for the first time will lead us to the logical conclusion that the player with experience in his ship will be able to use the Hindenburg much better than the rental player.

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33 minutes ago, Sere_Pj said:

wall of text

Please add some formatting so your post is readable.  Thanks. :cap_like:

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The rentals are designed to allowed players who may not have a T10 to play the mode with their friends and have a good time.

 

While at the same time, they have a handicap that makes them inferior to their tech tree counterparts. It is an incentive to play the rentals, like them, and want to move up and get the real ones.

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2 hours ago, Sere_Pj said:

This is my first post at this subject about clan battles. We as a clan are having some fun in the clan battles when you get to play against a team of Rental ships like we have, pretty well balanced for both. But here lately that has changed in the last week of battles. Yes we do have a lot of fun playing this game of the Clans, but when you face a team of non-rental tier 10 ships it is no contest, let the seal clubbing begin, a little disheartening for a clan and we do know this is our first time at this, we as a clan mostly play Tier 6-7-8 not tier 10 so they have the advantage. If this is the way that WG is going to continue this format for clan battles, we won't play them anymore, no fun in losing money on rental ships with our money at stake for captain skills and Modules and Signals. We would rather WG look at the difference between the tier 10 ships and rentals, ( we do know they are nerfed to some point ) so don't tell us any different on that. If you would fix the balance of the teams for the battles to resemble maybe half rental and half player owned that would be fine. And here is the big negative I know you will give me in a answer back, Nope not happening, nada, No. It is all about the high tier players am I correct? I know it is because you did not want player feedback before the clan battles started, you just listened to the high tier players. Well at Tier 6-7-8 we are all premium players 27 to be exact. That's a lot of money going into the high tier players pockets. The majority of your player base is in our tier we out number all the high tier players. I know you won't listen to any of us about the clan battles but I had to give it a shot, and by the way we quit the clan battles the other night half way through it because of the slaughter by the seal clubbers that play tier 10 on a regular basis.

First of all, please use formatting and paragraphs.  Walls of text like this are nearly unreadable for most people.

Secondly, calling people who own their own tier 10's "seal clubbers" because they're beating up on your rental tier 10's in clan battles is unfair.  Grossly unfair.  It's one thing to call good players "seal clubbers" when they play random battles in low tier ships.  But it's you guys who jumped into the deep, shark-infested waters of clan battles.  You're like baby seals jumping into a shark tank and then blaming the sharks for trying to eat you.  

I get that maybe it's frustrating to get beaten so badly in CBs.  But you should know that not all players with tier 10 ships are unicums.  Heck, some aren't even average players.  Some players can fail upwards, very badly, and still own tier 10's if they have the patience and/or the money to move up through the tiers.  I've seen this in both WoWS and WoT.  There are just some people who have a lot of time on their hands, perhaps plenty of (real) money, plenty of patience, and not a lot of ability, who will grind their way to getting tier 10 vehicles, sometimes a lot of them.  

Third, like others have said, the only combat difference between rentals and non-rentals is that the rentals can't mount camo.  That's it.  On the flip side, unlike normal ships, you can move captains into the rentals like they were premium ships, so it's not costing you any gold or whatever for retraining.  Whatever problem there may be, it is NOT about rental ships.  There's nothing stopping good players from sailing rental ships and doing well in them!!!  Just like there are some very bad players playing non-rental tier 10's and doing just as poorly.  So when you say that you refuse to believe that there aren't some (hidden) differences between regular tier 10's and the rental ones, that's your problem, your paranoia, because you're flat out wrong on this.  

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12 minutes ago, Crucis said:

First of all, please use formatting and paragraphs.  Walls of text like this are nearly unreadable for most people.

Secondly, calling people who own their own tier 10's "seal clubbers" because they're beating up on your rental tier 10's in clan battles is unfair.  Grossly unfair.  It's one thing to call good players "seal clubbers" when they play random battles in low tier ships.  But it's you guys who jumped into the deep, shark-infested waters of clan battles.  You're like baby seals jumping into a shark tank and then blaming the sharks for trying to eat you.  

I get that maybe it's frustrating to get beaten so badly in CBs.  But you should know that not all players with tier 10 ships are unicums.  Heck, some aren't even average players.  Some players can fail upwards, very badly, and still own tier 10's if they have the patience and/or the money to move up through the tiers.  I've seen this in both WoWS and WoT.  There are just some people who have a lot of time on their hands, perhaps plenty of (real) money, plenty of patience, and not a lot of ability, who will grind their way to getting tier 10 vehicles, sometimes a lot of them.  

Third, like others have said, the only combat difference between rentals and non-rentals is that the rentals can't mount camo.  That's it.  On the flip side, unlike normal ships, you can move captains into the rentals like they were premium ships, so it's not costing you any gold or whatever for retraining.  Whatever problem there may be, it is NOT about rental ships.  There's nothing stopping good players from sailing rental ships and doing well in them!!!  Just like there are some very bad players playing non-rental tier 10's and doing just as poorly.  So when you say that you refuse to believe that there aren't some (hidden) differences between regular tier 10's and the rental ones, that's your problem, your paranoia, because you're flat out wrong on this.  

Speakng of formatting and wall of text, and then produces this ...

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Clans can only battle same ranked clans. 

So losing to same ranked, probably means it's your tactics and not the ships.

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3 hours ago, SireneRacker said:

There is only one difference in stats between rentals and 'normal' ships, and that is that you cannot mount Camouflage on Rental ships. Other than that they are 100% identical.

However, there is still one important difference that is not tied to stats, it's tied to the players. Right now Hindenburg is a rental ship, so comparing someone who has 100+ Battles in the tech tree Hindenburg and someone who maybe plays this ship for the first time will lead us to the logical conclusion that the player with experience in his ship will be able to use the Hindenburg much better than the rental player.

According to a clan mate of mine the rental Hindenburg has a weaker heal then the regular one, on the other hand according to the same clan mate detonations are not a thing in clan battles so don't bother with the flag so I am not sure.

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19 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Speakng of formatting and wall of text, and then produces this ...

You're nuts.

My post was well formatted. If you can't deal with a well thought out, well formatted post, that's your problem.  And BTW, my post is VASTLY shorter than any of our beloved LittleWhiteMouse's premium ship reviews (though just as well formatted). And you don't hear anyone ever complain about the length of her fine reviews or call them walls of text.  No, sir, the problem here is YOU, and no one else.

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22 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Clans can only battle same ranked clans. 

So losing to same ranked, probably means it's your tactics and not the ships.

From what I've read and understand, this isn't true.  Oh, CBs MM prefers to put you up against clans in the same league.  But if it's not able to do so, it will start expanding its search for a match.

 

Edited by Crucis
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Just now, Herodotus4 said:

According to a clan mate of mine the rental Hindenburg has a weaker heal then the regular one, on the other hand according to the same clan mate detonations are not a thing in clan battles so don't bother with the flag so I am not sure.

Yes, Detonation definitely happen in CWs, and if you insist I'll find you the screenshot where a clanmate did detonate (poor guy, may he rest in peace) so that you can tell your clanmate that he better equips the flag.

As for the heal, I got three pictures for you:

First one, the heal on the Hindenburg. Stock Consumable, no Healing flag:

hHHY5Lp.jpg

Second picture, rental Hindenburg, stock Consumable, also no flag:

5YnVakH.jpg

Third picture, because I guess that's where your clanmate screwed up, normal Hindenburg, stock Consumable and the healing flag (you can see it flying on the mast as well):

pYPsh03.jpg

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9 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Yes, Detonation definitely happen in CWs, and if you insist I'll find you the screenshot where a clanmate did detonate (poor guy, may he rest in peace) so that you can tell your clanmate that he better equips the flag.

I would like that SS actually, he plays a Hindenburg most of the time so detonations are not as likely but still..... Can I join your clan's discord because I think it might make it a bit easier (also I have a habit of collecting them).

Thank you for the SS's of the hindys, I could not confirm it because I haven't gotten past tier 8 in an actual non rental ship (I can however confirm that a rental shimakaze or grozovoi is still an effective ship at least into upper gale league, my rental grozovoi has started to run into problems in storm league though due to finally running into someone good enough to exploit his superior camo

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

From what I've read and understand, this isn't true.  Oh, CBs MM prefers to put you up against clans in the same league.  But if it's not able to do so, it will start expanding its search for a match.

 

I am now enlightened.

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

You're nuts.

My post was well formatted. If you can't deal with a well thought out, well formatted post, that's your problem.  And BTW, my post is VASTLY shorter than any of our beloved LittleWhiteMouse's premium ship reviews (though just as well formatted). And you don't hear anyone ever complain about the length of her fine reviews or call them walls of text.  No, sir, the problem here is YOU, and no one else.

When viewing from my phone it has 1 paragraph.

Funny thing is, my quote of yours shows proper formatting....

I don't know why...

It is still the same as I write this.

I was thinking you might have been sarcastic in your response, as it stands it's my mobile forums displaying in desktop mode.

My bad...

Gave you +1

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2 hours ago, Herodotus4 said:

I would like that SS actually, he plays a Hindenburg most of the time so detonations are not as likely but still..... Can I join your clan's discord because I think it might make it a bit easier (also I have a habit of collecting them).

Bad news, I tried finding the stream where our poor soldier detonated, but our streamers were either not present or simply didn't record the battle.

https://discord.gg/8yWccEs

Feel free to join the discord, you can also ask there and everyone who was in the match will attest that you can detonate in CWs

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12 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

When viewing from my phone it has 1 paragraph.

Funny thing is, my quote of yours shows proper formatting....

I don't know why...

It is still the same as I write this.

I was thinking you might have been sarcastic in your response, as it stands it's my mobile forums displaying in desktop mode.

My bad...

Gave you +1

Dude, thanks for the honesty.  It's very much appreciated.  It's a breath of  fresh air when someone is able to admit they made a mistake, though in this case, fairness also compels me to say that it's not exactly your fault if your phone limited your ability to see the full formatting.  Just try to remember that minor issue in the future.  Honestly, dealing with people posting via cell phones can be annoying, because so often those phones force bad spelling onto their posts or perhaps they don't use proper capitalization and punctuation which in turn makes their posts annoying to read.  I can understand why it happens, and yet it's still annoying.

Have a nice day. 

 

BTW, sorry for my snarky reply earlier.  I was really put off by having someone call me out on a lack of formatting and wall of text, since I never write posts without decent formatting.  So, sorry.

Edited by Crucis
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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

Dude, thanks for the honesty.  It's very much appreciated.  It's a breath of  fresh air when someone is able to admit they made a mistake, though in this case, fairness also compels me to say that it's not exactly your fault if your phone limited your ability to see the full formatting.  Just try to remember that minor issue in the future.  Honestly, dealing with people posting via cell phones can be annoying, because so often those phones force bad spelling onto their posts or perhaps they don't use proper capitalization and punctuation which in turn makes their posts annoying to read.  I can understand why it happens, and yet it's still annoying.

Have a nice day. 

 

BTW, sorry for my snarky reply earlier.  I was really put off by having someone call me out on a lack of formatting and wall of text, since I never write posts without decent formatting.  So, sorry.

And thank you, sir, for bothering to reply.

Again, upvotes forthwith. 

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So this is what I'm boiling all this down to:

OP is saying that players who have owned and played their tier 10 ships for weeks or months, learning how to get the most from their abilities and maximize their performance (instead of just getting them right before clan battles) are out-performing the players with the rental ships.

I'm shocked.

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You make a valid point, however this is a game and Wows was good enough to give you a tier X Zao

learn from playing it,Ive had a 19 point Captain in my Zao for some time and not been able to play 1 game in Clans .. nobody in my clan is playing so I’m looking for another, maybe the least  experience in Zao the better .. just for fun 

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There are 3 points I want to make regarding rentals:

 

1. You cannot place camo on the rentals.

2. You need a least a 10 point CO. A 19 point CO is much more preferable.

3. You don't have experience (initially) on how to make best use of the ship.

 

Compare that to a person who has a TX in port:

 

1. Has camo that provides 3-4% less visibility and 3-4% less dispersion

2. Has a 19 point CO or worse, a 19 point legendary CO

3. Played at least 50 games with the ship.

 

You are going to be on the back foot at the start of the match. We have had clan members who had taken rentals be one of the first ones to be eliminated during a match.

 

I suspect WG made this rule to push people into acquiring T10s. Be interesting what tier season 2 brings.

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If you're losing by 3% of spotting and 4% of dispersion, then it's definitely the rental ships. If not, then it's something else.

We've seen this in our own clan when people tried to run rental ships to "fit the team composition". We eventually barred people from playing rentals not because of the camo, but because it meant they were playing a ship they hadn't touched before. Experience in the ship is a huge deal. We just straight-up changed our team composition and strategy last night to fit a Des Moines rather than have one of our members play a ship he had only a few games in and didn't feel comfortable with (he did great).

So, while it does indeed suck that playing a rental fleet means you have BOTH less experience and slightly worse ships, I'd propose the best way to deal with it is to just accept you're going to be learning the ships at the same time you're learning the format, and focus on improving your game as best you can, with what you have. You will, of course, want to work your way up to T10s at some point so you can really play a significant number of matches to get familiar with those ships, but if that takes until future seasons, there's nothing wrong with that.

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And there you go, all the negative comments left here are from senior players or Alpha & Beta testers, imagine that, so I did prove my point about how lower tier players are totally disrespected and ignored in the forum at whatever subject we decide to put out there.

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My answer to this dilemma you suffer is Aslains mods. Find his Training room enabler and use it the "Rental" ships can be used in there. practice practice practice. When using the training room don't pick easy ships to sink if you go against bots. but the ideal scenario is get as many live players involved as possible.    

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