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LupusMalum

Pan-Asia DD radar

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Am I the only person who thinks giving the Pan-Asia high tier DDs, is a power creep against the other DD lines. Mainly the IJN and USN  line will suffer the most in my opinion. Your comments would be appreciated. 

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No smoke?? Can't hit DDs with torps? 

 

Strong, but wrong definition of power creep. 

 

IJN and USN could use a little love. 

Better shell arcs for 5/38 

Better guns overall in HUGE ways for IJN

Better torpedo detection for IJN

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16 hours ago, LupusMalum said:

Am I the only person who thinks giving the Pan-Asia high tier DDs, is a power creep against the other DD lines. Mainly the IJN and USN  line will suffer the most in my opinion. Your comments would be appreciated. 

 

Not quite. They nerfed the line by giving it gimped deep water torps. Then they nerfed all other DDs by giving the top tier P-A DDs radar. 

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Their inability to counter other destroyers with torpedoes and relying on their teammates (and we all know how those are) is 'powercreep' ... how, exactly?

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They have to give up smoke for that radar. It is a valuable tool that you lose to gain the radar.

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4 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

They have to give up smoke for that radar. It is a valuable tool that you lose to gain the radar.

 

You have to choose to be either the hammer, or the nail.

 

The line looks interesting, and there will be plenty of downsides to their ups.

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Yes and no.  Radar is a strong counter, but you are left defenseless without smoke.  DW torpedoes are basically better US torps but can't hit DDs.  Hitting DD's may not be a big deal to some players who never torp smoke, but it's huge to those who do.  If you play IJN DD's with the sole intent of torping BB's, then it is somewhat of a powercreep.

 

As a whole, I think the line will be fine.  More radar is not something I necessarily wanted to see, but without smoke I'm somewhat fine with it.

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Every bit of it is balanced as we all know...

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Was running Kagerou and Yugumo without smoke even before the TRB buffs, smoke in high tiers is not as effective with the amount of currently existing radars, hydro and everyone torping smoke.

I had one smoke in my shima, where enemy torped it 5 times...

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 If played right  destroyers with radar are going to rule

I mean if you just working at a edge and got RPF you know where your enemies are.

sure you may get detected for a moment or two but you oblique away you don't need to smoke by the time you smoke your 20 seconds of gun penalties gone and you disappear anyways

 

Besides that at high tier there's so much radar that sitting in Smoke is suicide and that's the number one killer of Destroyers so as long as you keep your speed up and you can maneuver and you got radar how exciting is that

 

And then you light up the other enemy Destroyer if he is still around you and your buddies killing him

 

And we all know once all the enemy destroyers are dead he can use those deep-water torpedoes all day long

 

I personally cannot wait for the new Destroyers:cap_win:

Edited by silverdahc

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But then again it's going to kill the other Destroyer lines for me at high tier I think

Edited by silverdahc

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One more point I was thinking of is how awesome these are going to be at three division Squadron I hope I'm not the enemy Destroyer on the other side

 

And with the deep water Torpedoes you don't even have to worry about trorping your buddy dd's right

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Pan Asia DD are basically US DD with better torps. The thing that bother me isn't really the radar but the concealment value. Pan Asia DD seems to have slightly better concealment than US DD and considering US DD already have good concealment, almost capable to actively annoy IJN DD, I'm kinda worried about IJN DD being screwed by Pan Asia gun rather than torps.  

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those who kvetch about radar are fundamentally broken people and would find something else to gnash their teeth about and blame their pants shitting on if radar did not exist

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16 hours ago, Vaitmana said:

Was running Kagerou and Yugumo without smoke even before the TRB buffs, smoke in high tiers is not as effective with the amount of currently existing radars, hydro and everyone torping smoke.

I had one smoke in my shima, where enemy torped it 5 times...

 

That's what I have found. Radar has severely degraded game play and makes all high tier DD play a trial -- a low detect seems to be more effective. Because of this I play Fletcher less and less, and Yugumo more and more. 

But WG is adding more radar to the game, and to DDs, no less. It's another one of those data points that tells me the devs dont actually play the game, they just run the elements on ships and maps to make sure they work. 

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14 minutes ago, Bolo_MkXX_Tremendous_DMD said:

those who kvetch about radar are fundamentally broken people and would find something else to gnash their teeth about and blame their pants shitting on if radar did not exist

Say what you will, but in reality more radar means, less tactical thinking and more about park behind the island, see torps or cap being contested, pop it and profit. WG provide tools that are substitute for skill and intuition. I rarely see non radar cruisers in my games, not including British ones.

If only it did not work through land and did not show enemy ship for the whole team to see...

In any team game knowledge is power, and when there is a literal wall hack available, its hard to not see where the balance will go.

Edited by Vaitmana
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Well it certainly makes high tier DD play very hard and tiring, more of a chore than fun play.

First german DDs got their hydro, now PanAs radar, etc. Today contesting caps early is super dangerous.

If there are islands near cap you are pretty much guaranteed radar CAs parked and using radar on cap.

I find going back to tier 5/6 to play DDs so much more fun. Otherwise just going soviet DDs and shooting from range in high tiers using heal for stamina.

Funny there are still a lot of DDs in higher tiers, so .... more radar yay ;)

 

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It's not really powercreep.

 

Rather, it's mainly the IJN DD lines that needs some adjustments; the biggest being buffed turret traverse, and the second being proper T9 and T10 IJN gunships. The excuse for traverse being as low as it is currently was originally because they had the strongest torpedoes in-game (both high stealth and high damage). Now that it is not the case, both IJN DD lines can do with a buff to traverse.

 

Any other adjustments would just be icing, though I'd push for 20km DW torps on Shimakaze, 15km DW versions on Yugumo, and 12km DW versions on Kagero, but only affecting CAs, BBs, and CVs. CLs and DDs would just glide over those DW torps. That would simultaneously restore some of their torpedo stealth, and still offer some of the "mega strike" value they once had, without allowing them to completely dominate a game by locking up corridors. And they still would end up permaspotted by the ships those torps glided under, so it would require smarter use than just spamming them down "lanes".

 

As for a T9 and T10 IJN gunships, T9 should be Super Akizuki, and the T10 should be a "Hyper Akizuki" using the auto-loading 127mm DP design.

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On 11/17/2017 at 6:27 PM, Canadatron said:

 

You have to choose to be either the hammer, or the nail.

 

The line looks interesting, and there will be plenty of downsides to their ups.

I think there will be more downsides than upsides to be honest. The whole "your highest alpha weapon is completely useless against up to half the ships in the game!" gimmick is just bad. I'd say a good 80% of my torp use in DDs is flushing smoke or clearing caps, with the other 20% being launching on people who I think might run into them or channel torping.

 

So 80% of a weapons usefulness for my playstyle? Poof. Gone. 

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Just now, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

I think there will be more downsides than upsides to be honest. The whole "your highest alpha weapon is completely useless against up to half the ships in the game!" gimmick is just bad. I'd say a good 80% of my torp use in DDs is flushing smoke or clearing caps, with the other 20% being launching on people who I think might run into them or channel torping.

 

So 80% of a weapons usefulness for my playstyle? Poof. Gone. 

 

Exactly. Regular torps hit all ships. Somehow this isn't enough for some, and we need this. Lawdy..

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34 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:

It's not really powercreep.

 

Rather, it's mainly the IJN DD lines that needs some adjustments; the biggest being buffed turret traverse, and the second being proper T9 and T10 IJN gunships. The excuse for traverse being as low as it is currently was originally because they had the strongest torpedoes in-game (both high stealth and high damage). Now that it is not the case, both IJN DD lines can do with a buff to traverse.

 

Any other adjustments would just be icing, though I'd push for 20km DW torps on Shimakaze, 15km DW versions on Yugumo, and 12km DW versions on Kagero, but only affecting CAs, BBs, and CVs. CLs and DDs would just glide over those DW torps. That would simultaneously restore some of their torpedo stealth, and still offer some of the "mega strike" value they once had, without allowing them to completely dominate a game by locking up corridors. And they still would end up permaspotted by the ships those torps glided under, so it would require smarter use than just spamming them down "lanes".

 

As for a T9 and T10 IJN gunships, T9 should be Super Akizuki, and the T10 should be a "Hyper Akizuki" using the auto-loading 127mm DP design.

The only way I would want to see DW torps on IJN boats is if we had a choice...  So I could promptly ignore that choice and continue using torps that actually work, no matter the target. 

 

Which is where they went wrong with the PA line... No choice. You get DW garbage torps and you'll like it! 

I would rather have the option to remove the torp tubes entirely and add more quad Bofors. 

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I'll take DW torps if it means they bypass the torp protections on higher tier BBs.  I hate doing crap damage against tier X BBs in my tier VIII DD.  As for the RADAR I'm happy to have it.  Smoke is boring, and lame.

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Power creep implies previously holding power and IJN DD haven't been relevant (except for Akiduki and Harekaze) in a long time. But yes, USN DD will get power creeped because they're now facing off against USN DD with radar.

 

Either you win cap contests or you're  Khab. There isn't much of a middle ground anymore due to torps and lack of CVs.

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I think I'd much rather have smoke on a dd than radar. But the main point is that it's an interesting CHOICE with no clear obvious winner. 

 

Getting caught out in the open by enemies without the option of smoke is going to be painful. Yes, I know Shira's and Shima's do it all the time, but those will have smaller detection ranges. 

 

Still... interesting

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