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Captain_Obvious65

Maybe a dumb question...

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Only the latter.  Although both work for spotting torpedoes.  

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Fighters spot anything within that particular target's aerial detection range at the moment they pass through that range.

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10 minutes ago, Lert said:

Fighters spot anything within that particular target's aerial detection range at the moment they pass through that range.

To clarify, @Captain_Obvious65, don't mix up the concepts of "visual" range and "detection" range.  Visual range is the distance at which a detected ship will be drawn on your screen when you are looking in its direction.  That range is represented by the radius of the cone on your minimap indicating where you are looking.  Any detected ship within that range will be drawn on your screen when looking that direction (i.e., anything within the cone) indicating you know where it is and it is close enough to see.  Any ship beyond that radius, even if it can be seen by someone else, will not be drawn on the screen (representing that you know it is there because someone told you it was there, but it is too far for you to actually see).

On the other hand, detection (detectability) range has to do with the target ship, not yours.  Each ship has two detection ranges, surface (the distance at which ships can see it) and aerial (the distance at which aircraft can see it).  A ship can be within the visual range of your entire team, yet, if no one is within its detection range (or is not using radar or hydro, etc.), it will not be seen.

These are important distinctions because nothing extends "visual range," not even spotter aircraft.  Spotters only extend your main battery firing range (and give you an aerial binoculars view).  Similarly, spotters and fighters do not technically extend your detection/spotting range because detection range is a characteristic of the target ship, not yours.  What they, and carrier aircraft, do is act like additional teammates who can spot things on their own.  When, like Lert mentions, they get close enough to a target that they get within the aerial detection range of the target, they, not you, will spot it.  While that does light ships further out than you can detect them yourself, it only does so in the direction of the aircraft and only while the aircraft is within the target's aerial detection range.  Thus, it is not "extending" your detection/spotting range.  It is seeing it itself, and in that respect, catapult spotters and fighters and carrier aircraft all work the same way.

Spotters extend your firing range (and give you a top down binoculars view) while active, while fighters engage and disrupt enemy aircraft.  Other than that, they are identical, flying a circuit around your ship which, because they are further out than you and can see ships a few kilometers further out, may be able to spot things for you that you cannot see yourself.

 

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Okay. So if I understand, a ship within aerial detection range of my spotter aircraft will allow me to hit ships at longer ranger because it allows me to know they are there. They do so by giving me a "top down" view of the enemy. I do not see them from my ship. Catapult fighters, however, do not. 

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5 hours ago, Sotaudi said:

To clarify, @Captain_Obvious65, don't mix up the concepts of "visual" range and "detection" range.  Visual range is the distance at which a detected ship will be drawn on your screen when you are looking in its direction.  That range is represented by the radius of the cone on your minimap indicating where you are looking.  Any detected ship within that range will be drawn on your screen when looking that direction (i.e., anything within the cone) indicating you know where it is and it is close enough to see.  Any ship beyond that radius, even if it can be seen by someone else, will not be drawn on the screen (representing that you know it is there because someone told you it was there, but it is too far for you to actually see).

On the other hand, detection (detectability) range has to do with the target ship, not yours.  Each ship has two detection ranges, surface (the distance at which ships can see it) and aerial (the distance at which aircraft can see it).  A ship can be within the visual range of your entire team, yet, if no one is within its detection range (or is not using radar or hydro, etc.), it will not be seen.

These are important distinctions because nothing extends "visual range," not even spotter aircraft.  Spotters only extend your main battery firing range (and give you an aerial binoculars view).  Similarly, spotters and fighters do not technically extend your detection/spotting range because detection range is a characteristic of the target ship, not yours.  What they, and carrier aircraft, do is act like additional teammates who can spot things on their own.  When, like Lert mentions, they get close enough to a target that they get within the aerial detection range of the target, they, not you, will spot it.  While that does light ships further out than you can detect them yourself, it only does so in the direction of the aircraft and only while the aircraft is within the target's aerial detection range.  Thus, it is not "extending" your detection/spotting range.  It is seeing it itself, and in that respect, catapult spotters and fighters and carrier aircraft all work the same way.

Spotters extend your firing range (and give you a top down binoculars view) while active, while fighters engage and disrupt enemy aircraft.  Other than that, they are identical, flying a circuit around your ship which, because they are further out than you and can see ships a few kilometers further out, may be able to spot things for you that you cannot see yourself.

 

Thanks a bunch hun! I've been wondering about that.

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On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:12 PM, Captain_Obvious65 said:

Okay. So if I understand, a ship within aerial detection range of my spotter aircraft will allow me to hit ships at longer ranger because it allows me to know they are there. They do so by giving me a "top down" view of the enemy. I do not see them from my ship. Catapult fighters, however, do not. 

Rather than talking theoretically, let us look at specific examples.  The Perth is capable of bringing either a spotter or a fighter, so we will use her for our examples.  With a Captain with Concealment Expert and her default camo, her surface detection range is 8.6km and her aerial detection range is something like 5.9km.  Her normal gun range is 12.81km.  With a spotter up, this is increased to 15.37km.

If the Perth takes its spotter, spotters fly at 4.23km from their ship, so when the spotter is up, it will fly in a circle around the Perth at 4.23km away.  That means that, when the spotter is exactly between the Perth and a target ship1, the spotter will be 4.23km closer to that ship than the Perth itself.  If the target ship is another Perth, it's aerial detection range is 5.9km, so our spotter has to get to within 5.9km of the enemy Perth to spot it.   That means that the Perth, being 4.23km further back, is still 10.13km (4.23km + 5.9km) away from the enemy Perth when the spotter spots it.

Since the Perth's surface detection range is 8.6km and the enemy Perth is 10.13km away, neither ship can see the other directly.  However, since the friendly Perth's spotter is within the enemy Perth's aerial detection range, it sees the enemy Perth and reports the position back to its own Perth, and the friendly Perth can now see the enemy Perth.  Unless someone spots the friendly Perth for the enemy Perth, it will remain hidden.

Here is the thing.  That spotting mechanic doesn't change if the friendly Perth brought a fighter instead.  The only thing that changes is that fighters fly at 3.24km from their ship instead of 4.23km.  Thus, if our friendly Perth brought a fighter instead, the enemy Perth would still get spotted when the friendly fighter got within 5.9km of the enemy Perth.  Since the friendly Perth is 3.24km further back, the enemy Perth is still 9.14km (3.24km + 5.9km) from the friendly Perth, so, again, the friendly Perth will see the enemy Perth because its fighter is within the enemy Perth's aerial detection range, but the enemy Perth cannot see it yet because the friendly Perth is still 9.14km away, outside their mutual 8.6km surface detection range.

Note two things here.  First, the mechanics didn't change whether it is the spotter or the fighter.  Once either of them get within aerial spotting range of the enemy ship, they will spot it.  The only advantage for the spotter, in this case, is that it flies .99km further out than the fighter, so it gets within 5.9km of the enemy Perth a little sooner.  Otherwise, everything else from a spotting perspective is the same.

The second thing to note here is that, in this case, spotting was done at 10.13km with the spotter and 9.14km with the fighter.  Both distances are within the Perth's normal gun range, so the fact that the Perth can fire out to 15.37km with the spotter in this case is moot.  They are both within normal firing range of each other even regardless of which plane they brought.

Let us say, instead, that the two ships were 15km away from each other.  Let us also say that the friendly Perth brought the spotter but the enemy Perth brought the fighter.  At 15km, both ships are well beyond the range either can spot the other even with their catapult planes up and regardless of type.  However, let us assume that the enemy Perth gets spotted by a ship or plane belonging to an ally of the friendly Perth.  The friendly Perth can now see him.  With its spotter up, the friendly Perth can also fire out to 15.37km, so he can hit the enemy Perth as long as his spotter is up.  When the spotter is down, he reverts back to his normal 12.81km firing range and cannot hit him at that range.

Conversely, if the friendly Perth is gets spotted for whatever reason, the enemy Perth can now see him.  However, the enemy Perth can still not return fire because he brought the fighter.  As such, his gun range stays the same whether the fighter is up or not, 12.81km, which is short of the needed 15km.

Thus, the spotting works the same regardless of which aircraft type is involved.  If either type gets within the aerial detection range of an enemy ship, they will spot it assuming there are no line of sight issues.  The spotter will just do it a little sooner because it flies a bit further out.  Likewise, it is not that the spotter can see the enemy that allows you to shoot the longer distance.  As long as the spotter is up, you get the distance increase no matter what is spotting the enemies and even if there are no enemies currently spotted.  If the spotter is up, you get the increased distance (and top down binoculars view).  If the spotter is not up, you get the normal firing range (and normal binoculars view).

The fighter does not increase your firing range and does not give you the top down view, but it can still spot enemy ships.  It will also engage any enemy aircraft within its attack radius ("aggro range" in MMORPG terms), which will disrupt enemy bomber drops (higher dispersion for bombs and wider pattern for torpedoes).  Spotters will neither engage nor disrupt enemy aircraft.

 

1  Note:   Catapult planes fly a circular path around their ship.  Thus, sometimes the plane is on the near side and closer to a given enemy than its own ship is, and sometimes it is on the far side and further from that enemy ship than its own ship is.  To keep things simple, we are using a best case scenario.  That is, all examples here assume the spotter or fighter are exactly between the two ships in question (i.e., at its closest point to the enemy).  The ability for a spotter or fighter to spot another ship before its own ship will, though, vary depending on which side of its own ship the aircraft is on at the time.

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Wow! This explains thing even better! The examples you give make it much easier to understand. You consider having this one pinned. It certainly makes it clearer than the wiki does. Thank you dear!

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