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AlcatrazNC

CW : Hindenburg impression

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Hi

 

Since Hindenburg was rented for Clan Battle, I decided to jump in and try some game with it. And... imo this ship seems really weak...or awkward. The reason why I didn't bother with the Germain cruiser line is that they offer nothing special compared to other line :

-IJN line has concealment and raw HE damage + fire

-USN has great AA, rate of fire, radar and AP

-Russia has radar and hard hitting guns

-RN has smoke/radar, concealment and AP rain.

-French has speed, decent guns and good kitting skill

 

The T10 Hindenburg has her strenght :

-Powerfull AP damage

-Fast turret traverse and if you use the reload mod, 8.8sec reload

-Good armor.

 

She also has her weaknesses :

-Garbage HE

-AP pen is garbage : if the target is slightly angled your entire salvo will bounce

-Slow speed

-Garbage concealment

-Meh manoeuvrability

-6km torps but good firing arc. They are just here to estimate the speed of your target

 

Maybe Hindenburg isn't a really good ship for CW, or maybe it's just me but I really have a tough time making this ship work.  If i find a target sailing broadside, I can melt her with AP, but every other cruiser could do the same thing. As soon as the ship angle, my damage goes from 8k-10k per salvo to 2k max per salvo. Then i have to rely on HE... and i'm doing almost the same amount of damage.  Fire chance isn't high but considering you shoot every 8.8 sec, it can compensate i guess. 

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There are players who use it to good effect.  It really shines in the late game, where it can go up against other ships in a one-on-one. 

It benefits from the extra HE penetration that all German cruisers possess, which means that while its HE is low-damage, it's quite reliable. 

 

While the torpedo set is relatively short-ranged, it sports 8 per side, which hit like a freight train in the right situations.  Such as: using your german hydro and copious torps to flush a DD out of smoke. 

 

Belt extends all the way to the bow, and the turtleback makes it a real trick to citadel at close range.  

 

If anything, I'd expect her to do better in CW than in randoms.  You have only one BB to worry about, and if there's one thing Hindenburg is good at, its bullying cruisers and DDs.

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Hindi is a push cruiser.  No other cruiser can push as well as hindenburg.

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The key strength of the Hindenburg is that she has no extreme weakness. She has a bit of everything, though there is one Thing at which she Excels being the Close quarters combat. I even think that there is no ship in the game at the Moment which could reliably win in a brawl against a Hindenburg. The turtleback makes her immune against citadel damage at those ranges, something that no other T10 Cruiser can boast. The Penetration of her AP Shells is by far enough to dpm the living crap out of your opponents and you have a heavy Torpedo broadside with good angles, and you can also use them without being deleted like a Minotaur would.

 

In CWs the Hindenburg brings a lot of stuff to the table. The 5.9km Hydro (and 5km Torpedo spotting with Vigilance and Hydro), a massive Alpha Strike and dpm that makes her a dangerous ship once she flanks and most importantly, she is one of the few ships that can reliably engage a bow-on Moskva. The ability to penetrate 50mm of armor with HE means a lot.

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Uh, what the hell is this. Hinden is the best cruiser in the game right now. Its extremely durable, fights well in open water, 203 1/4 HE pen wrecks everything angling and the AP does even more against stupid targets.

 

Unless this is a troll, this is the dumbest thing I have ever read in my time in this game.

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3 hours ago, Pulicat said:

Uh, what the hell is this. Hinden is the best cruiser in the game right now. Its extremely durable, fights well in open water, 203 1/4 HE pen wrecks everything angling and the AP does even more against stupid targets.

 

Unless this is a troll, this is the dumbest thing I have ever read in my time in this game.

 

Well sorry for not sharing your idea or whatever you call it. Like the title mentionned, it's just my impression meaning i can be right or wrong. I had more fun using a Zao rather than a Hindenburg and i felt more powerfull in a Zao than a Hindy. In a Zao i was able to citadel a Hindy angled just under her front turret, I can't do the same thing with a Hindy. As a Zao I can easily deal damage to other ship with both HE and AP, as a Hindy, I struggle with HE because the raw damage is meh and the AP bounce against little angle. 

Yes it is tanky and can fight really well in open water, but I could do the same with the Zao.

I can make her work, it's not an issue, i'm just sharing my feeling regarding this ship. Other may or may not be agree with me it's fine.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 it's just my impression meaning i can be right or wrong.

 

wrong in this case. Your feelings don't matter.

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Hindenburg is probably the best overall cruiser. Not the best at anything, but also not the worst. The Jack of All Trades cruiser. 

 

This is amazing for random battles. But meh for CW.

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1 minute ago, Xlap said:

This is amazing for random battles. But meh for CW.

I'd rate Hindenburg as the second best ship for CWs, right after the Moskva.

She can fight at alost all ranges, she can flank or she can push and most importantly her strength does not rely on Island cover like for Des Moines or some Moskva Players, it relies on positioning, target selection and Shell selection.

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In a bad RNG game, the enemy Hindenburgs are INDESTRUCTABLE.  17 HE hits from a Des Moines -- ZERO damage.  500hp for each AP hit.  Scratching the paint here.

And that's when RNG says we are allowed to actually hit it.

Meanwhile, the Hindenburg next to it is not enjoying the benefit of RNG  - so I set it on fire and AP it for 2/3 of it's health.

It's a game....

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Hey

I personally like the Roon better but the Hindy does a great job and if angled and up close, does a great deal of damage even to BB's.  The only thing I would change on the Hindy is 1 kt. faster and a quicker rudder steer so it would handle as good or better than Roon, 8km torps would be good too.  Otherwise it needs nothing, it's a very strong ship even in it's present state.  Hipper/Prinz Eugen need a buff if there is a need in the German line.

 

Pete

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14 hours ago, Pulicat said:

wrong in this case. Your feelings don't matter.

Do you look for opportunities to be rude and disrespectful? I can do that too.

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On 11/16/2017 at 11:21 AM, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

I personally like the Roon better but the Hindy does a great job and if angled and up close, does a great deal of damage even to BB's.  The only thing I would change on the Hindy is 1 kt. faster and a quicker rudder steer so it would handle as good or better than Roon, 8km torps would be good too.  Otherwise it needs nothing, it's a very strong ship even in it's present state.  Hipper/Prinz Eugen need a buff if there is a need in the German line.

 

Pete

If you want good rudder just take both rudder mods and CE. This allows you to keep a usable 13km detection while giving you a 5-6 sec rudder. Also if you want speed just use a speed flag, with that you get up to 33knts. Finally I do agree with the longer torp range, but there has to be some sort of trade of for that. Like longer reload, higher detection, or slower speed.

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 10:22 PM, AlcatrazNC said:

Maybe Hindenburg isn't a really good ship for CW, or maybe it's just me but I really have a tough time making this ship work.  If i find a target sailing broadside, I can melt her with AP, but every other cruiser could do the same thing. As soon as the ship angle, my damage goes from 8k-10k per salvo to 2k max per salvo. Then i have to rely on HE... and i'm doing almost the same amount of damage.  Fire chance isn't high but considering you shoot every 8.8 sec, it can compensate i guess. 

It sounds like you simply need more practice in Hindenburg to get the most out of her in clan battles.  She is unquestionably one of the stronger cruiser options available to players in the inaugural season.

  • HE shells do consistent damage to all targets, and light plenty of fires due to main battery rate of fire.  I very commonly slap CAs and BBs for 4-6k salvos with her HE; the penetration bonus German cruiser HE gets was a huge buff to her damage output. 
  • She can mount a Spotting Aircraft.  This is a vastly underrated ability, honestly, given how accurate her guns are, and she's one of the few T10 cruisers who can do this. 
  • Her concealment is not amazing, but is adequate for the role she fills in a clan battle.  She is out-spotted by all DDs and a few of the cruisers, but with her range it's not hard to hang 15+ kilometers from an enemy cruiser or battleship and still land shells.  She can always stop firing and go dark as needed at that kind of range. 
  • She's a superb cruiser for a push.  The last thing another ship wants to see is a Hindenburg charging them at close range.  Unless the Hindi screws up, the enemy is dead.
  • German hydro remains relevant, particularly on Mountain Range's C cap, Hotspot's C cap, and Sea of Fortune's A/B cap.  Plus, there are still teams that use Shimakaze

Hindenburg is a highly flexible cruiser that brings a lot of different tools to a match; the epitome of what a good T10 cruiser should be.  That moniker is valid in both random battles and in clan battles; I don't recall facing a team in Typhoon that didn't run at least one Hindenburg.  Two is fairly common, actually, and you occasionally see 3+.

Edited by SeaRaptor00
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3 hours ago, Nimitz_1701 said:

If you want good rudder just take both rudder mods and CE. This allows you to keep a usable 13km detection while giving you a 5-6 sec rudder. Also if you want speed just use a speed flag, with that you get up to 33knts. Finally I do agree with the longer torp range, but there has to be some sort of trade of for that. Like longer reload, higher detection, or slower speed.

Hey,

I do run double steering gears and concealment on mine.  Had a decent 107K damage game today, and tops on my team which was a win.

Pete

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Hey,

Had a battle a few weeks ago in which I did over 66K damage to a Conqueror at close range of 4km or less and my Hindy shrugged off everything he dealt; I would have killed him had other team mates not swooped in for an easy kill.  Hindy is very tough up close, and I am using the range mod instead of the ROF module.  Like above:  "Hindy Rocks!**".

 

Pete 

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I got my Hindenburg some months before the German Cruiser HE Buff.  For me at the time I was very disappointed with her compared to Tier IX Roon.  I tried but it wasn't working out.  I ranted about it in a match and the CV of our team was telling me how wrong I was about Hindenburg being a bad ship (putting it in polite terms for this thread :Smile_Default:).

 

I was acting very aggressively with this ship, pushing hard, fairly close to the DDs, the basic mistakes of Cruiser play.  I threw out a lot of lessons learned from past experience, thought my Tier X Cruiser will just blaze through because I had "Battleship" Hindenburg.

 

So, I played more conservatively and leveraged Hindenburg's strengths.  Play conservatively and let the guns sing for general play.  However, when the map, match situation permits, send this baby in for a close range fight.

 

Hindenburg is capable of a lot of things.

- Terrific AA but Defensive Fire competes with Hydro in the same slot.  Still, if you want a Cruiser that can have deadly AA, Hindenburg easily affords that option if you want to go that route.

- Extremely heavy torpedo loadout, 6km of a Hindy is a very dangerous spot for any ship.  Double launchers per side with more useful launch arcs than Zao.  Only Minotaur is more dangerous in that envelope with her massive torpedo capability, but Mino has terrible armor.  If a Hindy and Mino get into a knife fight it's not going to last long at all, that's for sure! :Smile_teethhappy:

- Very good at range with shell flight characteristics ideal for such fighting.

- With MBM3, can spam shells at 8.8 second reloads with 12 203mm guns.

- Hindenburg's protection is ideal for the short range fight.  However, when I get rekt in one big salvo is a long range BB AP salvo.  As with other Cruisers, manage how many can actually shoot at you.  Otherwise even Hindenburg will collapse easily with multiple citadels from BB AP.  You still need to respect Tier X Cruiser AP.  Go ahead and flash that broadside to a Moskva.  See what happens.

- Sports the Best Hydro in the game, Tier X German Hydro!  In the right map, right time, right place, this is a powerful consumable.  However, competes with Defensive Fire for the slot.

 

The ship is great.  She can stand off and be a tormentor.  If the time and place is right, she can assert dominance in a short ranged fight.  Really, if a Hindenburg comes around an island and you're not ready and the range is about 6km or less, you're dead.  DD, Cruiser, Battleship, you're dead.  Between the Hydro, guns, good protection, and heavy torpedo loadout, she is a very dangerous short ranged fighter when given the chance.

 

By the time I understood how to play the ship, and reign in my aggressive play a bit, the German Cruiser HE Buff was about to hit.  Post-Buff, Hindenburg got even better.  Before the buff, you rarely saw the ship and nobody really cared about her, save some few who kept it a secret :Smile_glasses:  Now, it's understood that she's a great Cruiser.  Hell, ALL the Tier X Cruisers are great ships.

 

Edit:  To showcase her flexibility, consider what the Tier X Cruisers excel at.

 

Minotaur - Stealth, medium and short range AP spam, huge torpedo capability, smoke.  Poor long ranged fighter due to floaty shells.  But when the ranges get shorter, that's not an issue anymore.  If positioned right and lays an ambush, Minotaur will quickly work anyone down, even a BB.

 

Zao - Stealth, long ranged prowess, terrific shell availability, Zao Hellfire Shells.  The F3 torps are a weapon of conflicting use.  You'll hardly use it but if you do have that chance, someone is going to have a bad day with those things hitting them.

 

Moskva - S--t stealth but Russian Railguns, tough head on, excellent at range.  Long Range Radar capability.  However, she feels clumsy in a short ranged fight.

 

Henri IV - Fast a.f., very good at range also.  Her speed, handling with Engine Boost on?  If she's in open water and has room to play, HIV is a very annoying ship as she avoids gunfire and pelts with those big guns.  However, if she needs to fight close, she's not idea despite having some torps.  She feels big and clumsy in short ranged fights.

 

Des Moines - One of the "Division Ace" ships in this game.  Can have a combo of Radar + Hydro.  Very fast firing guns.  Solid AP that will punish given the chance.  Combine that with the fast reload, Adrenaline Rush, maybe MBM3 also, and DM can melt people real fast with HE or AP shells.  However, she is the 2nd squishiest of these ships and her floaty shells can be annoying at long range.  This is a ship that gets stronger the shorter range the fight gets.

 

Hindenburg - Can play at range just as well as Zao, Moskva, Henri IV, and unlike DM and Minotaur.  She can also be dangerous in a short ranged fight like DM and Minotaur, and unlike Moskva, Henri IV.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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On 21/11/2017 at 9:28 AM, SeaRaptor00 said:

 

 

  • She can mount a Spotting Aircraft.  This is a vastly underrated ability, honestly, given how accurate her guns are, and she's one of the few T10 cruisers who can do this. 

 

Yep that's what i'm using. I find it more usefull than catapult fighter since i'm using reload mod. 17.8km isn't bad but sometime when i need to harass people from range, it's kinda meh and the spotter plane does help in that regard.

5 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I got my Hindenburg some months before the German Cruiser HE Buff.  For me at the time I was very disappointed with her compared to Tier IX Roon.  I tried but it wasn't working out.  I ranted about it in a match and the CV of our team was telling me how wrong I was about Hindenburg being a bad ship (putting it in polite terms for this thread :Smile_Default:).

 

I was acting very aggressively with this ship, pushing hard, fairly close to the DDs, the basic mistakes of Cruiser play.  I threw out a lot of lessons learned from past experience, thought my Tier X Cruiser will just blaze through because I had "Battleship" Hindenburg.

 

So, I played more conservatively and leveraged Hindenburg's strengths.  Play conservatively and let the guns sing for general play.  However, when the map, match situation permits, send this baby in for a close range fight.

 

Hindenburg is capable of a lot of things.

- Terrific AA but Defensive Fire competes with Hydro in the same slot.  Still, if you want a Cruiser that can have deadly AA, Hindenburg easily affords that option if you want to go that route.

- Extremely heavy torpedo loadout, 6km of a Hindy is a very dangerous spot for any ship.  Double launchers per side with more useful launch arcs than Zao.  Only Minotaur is more dangerous in that envelope with her massive torpedo capability, but Mino has terrible armor.  If a Hindy and Mino get into a knife fight it's not going to last long at all, that's for sure! :Smile_teethhappy:

- Very good at range with shell flight characteristics ideal for such fighting.

- With MBM3, can spam shells at 8.8 second reloads with 12 203mm guns.

- Hindenburg's protection is ideal for the short range fight.  However, when I get rekt in one big salvo is a long range BB AP salvo.  As with other Cruisers, manage how many can actually shoot at you.  Otherwise even Hindenburg will collapse easily with multiple citadels from BB AP.  You still need to respect Tier X Cruiser AP.  Go ahead and flash that broadside to a Moskva.  See what happens.

- Sports the Best Hydro in the game, Tier X German Hydro!  In the right map, right time, right place, this is a powerful consumable.  However, competes with Defensive Fire for the slot.

 

The ship is great.  She can stand off and be a tormentor.  If the time and place is right, she can assert dominance in a short ranged fight.  Really, if a Hindenburg comes around an island and you're not ready and the range is about 6km or less, you're dead.  DD, Cruiser, Battleship, you're dead.  Between the Hydro, guns, good protection, and heavy torpedo loadout, she is a very dangerous short ranged fighter when given the chance.

 

By the time I understood how to play the ship, and reign in my aggressive play a bit, the German Cruiser HE Buff was about to hit.  Post-Buff, Hindenburg got even better.  Before the buff, you rarely saw the ship and nobody really cared about her, save some few who kept it a secret :Smile_glasses:  Now, it's understood that she's a great Cruiser.  Hell, ALL the Tier X Cruisers are great ships.

 

 

Hindenburg - Can play at range just as well as Zao, Moskva, Henri IV, and unlike DM and Minotaur.  She can also be dangerous in a short ranged fight like DM and Minotaur, and unlike Moskva, Henri IV.

 

 

She's not a bad ship but yeah I'll need to get used to this kind of gameplay. When brawling I don't expose my broadside even if i have torps because I know i'll get citadel but in a Hindenburg since you're more or less immune to citadel at close range it might be a good idea to show enough broadside and torps. I'm still not used to not get deleted in 1 salvo when showing broadisde on a brawling fight : Chapayev has no armor so you get devastating strike, except Atago, IJN cruiser can not torps unless the ennemi is a potatoe . French cruiser does have good torps angle but brawling in a Saint Louis might now be the best option.

 

My impression was based on 3 thing :

 

-HE damage : When i'm fighting against skilled player, I don't expect them to show broadside so HE is the go to shell.

-Concealment : It is probably overestimated in this game but having concealment allow you to dictate most engagement. 

-Range and Reload .

 

When I played this ship, I knew HE damage was weak and concealment was bad so it didn't really encourage me to grind the line. I didn't take into account thing such as armor or manoeuvrability for instance, because every T10 cruiser (with the exception of Minotaure) can tank a lot of shell when they are angled. Manoeuvrability as a pure stat is a bit irrelevant, it really depends on Range and Reload and Concealment. 

 

I guess i'll give her another chance since she's not a bad ship. 

 

 

Thanks for all replies :D

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53 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

When I played this ship, I knew HE damage was weak and concealment was bad so it didn't really encourage me to grind the line.

 

The HE shell damage is deceptive.  You won't usually get the flashy 10k salvos like you do from Zao, but you have a significant ROF buff over Zao, and the additional regular pen damage from her HE shells adds up fast. 

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14 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

- Terrific AA but Defensive Fire competes with Hydro in the same slot.  Still, if you want a Cruiser that can have deadly AA, Hindenburg easily affords that option if you want to go that route.

When I first started to play the game I had a bad experience with Carriers. So I now run an AA Hindenburg. Let's just say my AA is so good that it keeps the Carriers out of the queue ;)

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