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Exciton8964

Matchmaking bad as always

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This is nothing informative or new. This is just a rant.

 

But this is also a reminder to WG that your matchmaking sucks. Stacking all odds against a player game after game after game is just frustrating and have you lose players in the long run

 

Yes, theoretically random matchmaking is fair to everyone. But being fair doesn't mean good. Lottery system is also random and fair but no nation will base their economy on a lottery system.

 

 

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So let me ask... When you get on a winning streak where your team outbalances the enemy team, do you sit there and get mad at matchmaking then too? 

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How can a T10 have bad matchmaking?  You're always assured to be top tier.

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1 minute ago, TTK_Aegis said:

So let me ask... When you get on a winning streak where your team outbalances the enemy team, do you sit there and get mad at matchmaking then too? 

I would be mighty pissed in a steamroll after another without anybody able to put up a good fight.

17 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

 

 

I can relate to your pain. Skill-based MM needs to be a thing. 

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5 minutes ago, TTK_Aegis said:

So let me ask... When you get on a winning streak where your team outbalances the enemy team, do you sit there and get mad at matchmaking then too? 

Some one else out there will suffer, right?

 

It is never good. Winning streak won't make me ecstatic. But losing streak will make ppl mad.

 

 

Edited by Exciton8964
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Just now, Exciton8964 said:

Some one else out there will suffer. Every game I win means some one else loses.

But do you get mad about matchmaking when it happens? If you were on those other teams that blew out the enemy team over and over again would you think "Wow, matchmaking is so unfair. I hate this system. Look at how imbalanced those matches were!" or would you think "I'm so great! Look at how hard I beat that other team!" 

 

Because it's either MM's fault or it isn't. If MM is broken, then it isn't just your losses, but your victories too that are the fault of MM. You can't only blame it for your blowout losses. You also have to credit it for your blowout wins too, because if the losses you posted here are the fault of MM, then the wins you posted here (the other team did win after all) are /also/ the fault of MM. I'm just hoping you see it that way, and don't only look to complain when you're losing. 

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Skill-based MM needs to be a thing. 

You have to define skill then and so far - no has been able to do that in WoWs yet.... Unless MM can eventually see into the future for all players.

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2 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

You have to define skill then and so far - no has been able to do that in WoWs yet.... Unless MM can eventually see into the future for all players.

 

Average damage per Battle, K/D ratio, main battery hit ratio, torpedo tube hit ratio, scouting done, potential damage taken...

Come on it's not rocket science.

 

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5 minutes ago, TTK_Aegis said:

But do you get mad about matchmaking when it happens? If you were on those other teams that blew out the enemy team over and over again would you think "Wow, matchmaking is so unfair. I hate this system. Look at how imbalanced those matches were!" or would you think "I'm so great! Look at how hard I beat that other team!" 

 

Because it's either MM's fault or it isn't. If MM is broken, then it isn't just your losses, but your victories too that are the fault of MM. You can't only blame it for your blowout losses. You also have to credit it for your blowout wins too, because if the losses you posted here are the fault of MM, then the wins you posted here (the other team did win after all) are /also/ the fault of MM. I'm just hoping you see it that way, and don't only look to complain when you're losing. 

Did you read my original post?

 

I said random MM is fair. But being fair doesn't mean being good.

 

As I mentioned, lottery is one of the most fair system out there. So shall we just build an economy where everyone's earning is based on a random chance?  By your logic, I have equal chance to earn more or earn less so I should never complain no matter what outcome is.

 

The bottom line is that RNG system itself is bad. It doesn't matter what outcome you are getting .Win or lose is irrelevant.

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6 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

 

 

You have to define skill then and so far - no has been able to do that in WoWs yet.... Unless MM can eventually see into the future for all players.

Well, it is actually pretty simple.

 

Every game you gain exp. Divide that exp by the average exp of every player in that game. This index should already include everything.

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16 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

I would be mighty pissed in a steamroll after another without anybody able to put up a good fight.

I can relate to your pain. Skill-based MM needs to be a thing. 

If that ever happens you'll be waiting 30 minutes to go into battle  

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2 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Average damage per Battle, K/D ratio, main battery hit ratio, torpedo tube hit ratio, scouting done, potential damage taken...

Come on it's not rocket science.

 

It is far more difficult than that....  So many can be manipulated (like WR) and ion many cases the WR for one ship is drastically better than another.  Damage - can be farmed outside of WR and plenty of players can do better than server average and the next game do well under average.  Again - until MM can see the future and know how the players will play in that game - skill is completely elusive.  Not to mention how many players will start a new account when they know more and manipulate the WR/Damage/K/D ration even more.

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3 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

Well, it is actually pretty simple.

 

Every game you gain exp. Divide that exp by the average exp of every player in that game. This index should already include everything.

Except there are plenty of bonuses from flags and ships themselves that skew the XP.  XP can also be manipulated to an extent as well.  Not to metnion - a couple bad games suddenly make you look like an average player and then you have the one game that blows it out of the water and people will whine about the bad MM.

I do want to say that back in beta - probably closed beta) a skill based MM was tried and well - it is not being used.  I believe I remember reading about this when I started a couple years ago - maybe one of the longer term players can confirm or deny this happened.

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Just now, Eric_Von_Hess said:

If that ever happens you'll be waiting 30 minutes to go into battle  

I mean, it can happen with a larger player base, especially with the new steam influx...

We have to wait a few years for them to be clubbed into proper captains thou :Smile_playing:

Just now, CylonRed said:

It is far more difficult than that....  So many can be manipulated (like WR) and ion many cases the WR for one ship is drastically better than another.  Damage - can be farmed outside of WR and plenty of players can do better than server average and the next game do well under average.  

1

Just compare these stats with server average. You think you did well in your Belfast? Compare it to the server average. 

Plus you should take these data from a board sample (if not all) of your games played, that takes out the individual cases like you "do well under average"

2 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

skill is completely elusive.  

 

That is just blatantly untrue. No matter how much one may [edited] about WR manipulation, a unicum like Pulicat driving a Yorck is definitely capable of trashing a scrub driving a Belfast.

5 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

 Not to mention how many players will start a new account when they know more and manipulate the WR/Damage/K/D ration even more.

 

Which is exactly why we need Skill based MM, so that at low tiers the seals can learn the game while the clubbers can club each other to oblivion.

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13 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

Except there are plenty of bonuses from flags and ships themselves that skew the XP.  XP can also be manipulated to an extent as well.  Not to metnion - a couple bad games suddenly make you look like an average player and then you have the one game that blows it out of the water and people will whine about the bad MM.

I do want to say that back in beta - probably closed beta) a skill based MM was tried and well - it is not being used.  I believe I remember reading about this when I started a couple years ago - maybe one of the longer term players can confirm or deny this happened.

There is something called base exp which cannot be modified by anything.

 

Games vary in length and quality. That is why I am suggesting base exp divided by average exp earned by all players in that game..

 

I don't know anything about CBT. But knowing WG, I don't believe they even tried that. They will only consider skill based MM after they start losing players.

Edited by Exciton8964

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Plus you should take these data from a board sample (if not all) of your games played, that takes out the individual cases like you "do well under average"

So you play badly for a few days and MM still puts you in game where it expects you to do better - well - eventually it will likely be correct  Till then - MM sucks will still continue.

a unicum like Pulicat driving a Yorck is definitely capable of trashing a scrub driving a Belfast.

The average player that MM deals with - are not, and will never be unicum.  This would benefit a tiny portion of the players who only want to play...  outside of the riff raf.  I don't think that is healthy for the game.

Some very good points in this thread - first page around the double digits posts:

 

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26 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Average damage per Battle, K/D ratio, main battery hit ratio, torpedo tube hit ratio, scouting done, potential damage taken...

Come on it's not rocket science.

 

Average Damage per Battle can be manipulated.  Seriously Torpedo hit ratio?  ok.. I'll just walk away.

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2 minutes ago, Exciton8964 said:

 But knowing WG, I don't believe they even tried that. They will only consider skill based MM after they start losing players.

Bad idea to simply believe blindly - just because it fits in your view.  How about looking to see if it was tried and if so - find why it was not used after.

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1 hour ago, Exciton8964 said:

By your logic, I have equal chance to earn more or earn less so I should never complain no matter what outcome is.

No, not really. Here I'll try again.

 

You're clearly upset by your losses and you're blaming it on the matchmaker, or at least affected by it enough to make a post about it. Your title even says matchmaking is bad, so whether you think it's fair or not, you clearly think it is at fault. My argument has nothing to do with whether or not it's /fair/. Pretty sure I never even said the word. What I'm asking is are you upset because you lost or are you upset because matchmaking is a bad system?

 

See I never see anyone on here complain about MM except when they're losing. I don't see people say how bad it is when it works in their favor. Therefore, they are /not/ mad at the MM system. They can't be. If they were they'd be mad at it regardless of how it worked out for them personally. If they only complain about MM when they lose, then they are mad about /losing/ not about the matchmaker and how it puts teams together, because if they were, they'd be upset about winning when MM assembles unbalanced teams too. 

 

Now I'm sure there are people who hate unbalanced games whether they win or lose. We've seen one example of that in this thread already. I was just curious as to whether you were legitimately anti-MM or just anti-losing, because one deserves kudos for consistency and the other deserves introspection. 

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31 minutes ago, TTK_Aegis said:

I was just curious as to whether you were legitimately anti-MM or just anti-losing

Cant be both? 

 

No one likes to lose, but its part of the game, one team wins and the other loses. The problem is when you have so many defeats even doing well. And this heppens because the MM gave to you bad teams while the enem team was good. 

 

Around a week ago i had 15 defeats in a roll. The worst part? I was top 3 XP of my team in 14 of the 15 battles. I was playing well and my stats out of win rate increassed. No matter what i tried i just coudnt win. Why? Because my teams were unable to stay alive for more than 5 min. The MM just keept trolling me with terrible teams. 

 

Yesterday i had a five win streak, just one of those five games was fun, because in the other four the enemy team was worst than bots and the battle ended in five mins. 

 

Where is the fun when the MM decides what team will win and lose from the start? When one team gets the good players and the other gets the bad players. When you either win or lose that hard its not fun.

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1 hour ago, Xlap said:

Where is the fun when the MM decides what team will win and lose from the start? When one team gets the good players and the other gets the bad players. When you either win or lose that hard its not fun.

See this is why I never go into a match expecting or needing on some personal level to win. Only to do my best with the cards in my hand. I can be on endless fail teams and still have fun, so long as I personally did my best. The games that frustrate me are the ones where RNG just won't cooperate. Where you just can't set a fire or get a good shell dispersion or when you're in a dead slow ship and everywhere you go the battle is happening somewhere too far away. Even on a win, that frustrates me, because I don't feel like I helped enough. 

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4 hours ago, Eric_Von_Hess said:

If that ever happens you'll be waiting 30 minutes to go into battle  

 I'll take it. Better than waiting 30 seconds for a crapbattle, 1000 times in a row.

Edited by m373x
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4 hours ago, Exciton8964 said:

 

Every game you gain exp. Divide that exp by the average exp of every player in that game. This index should already include everything.

 

Just remember to tell WG not to count premium lol.

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