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Chaos_EN2

Advice on improving my game.

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As many of you know I am not the biggest Random player and a big supporter of the improvement of Co-Op. But I do play a random game off and on, so I have decided to post a replay here from one of my Random Games.One of those happen this past Friday, (I took the day off), and I was in my beloved HSF Graf Spee, I looking for input on improving my game as a whole not just for Random or Co-Op. 

So I hope this will not turn into Co-Op vs. Random posting that is not what I am looking for.

And Thanks ahead of time:Smile_honoring:

https://replayswows.com/replay/9026

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I have the Admiral Spee - not sure what differences there might be and can't remember if the HSF gets the same premium bonuses but the Spee has one of the highest WR for me for cruisers.  The game posted has decent numbers - 52K damage in a cruiser is generally above server average (Admiral Spee has an average of about 38K damage last I played).   

Couple of items in the first 5 minutes of the game

1.  You have heals - you can be a bit more aggressive early in the game.  When I start in that position I like angling toward the B cap near the big island - can give you an idea of who is there if DDs or CVs are not spotting.  Easy to kite from in general if needed.

2.  Your aiming can be better - you are not OP - you have only 6 shells.  In the middle of the A cap you fired between 2 BBs that had zero ability to hit either one.  Right after that you have a DD that smoked and you fired where the DD was - not firing ahead of the DD as he continued to move forward.

3.  If I remember correctly - Spee AP CAN cit a Fuso.  Makes up for the number of shells the IJN BBs can fling out.  Switch to AP when it matters - the Mogami could have been taken out easily with AP with a broadside. Tap the 2 key once - fire the loaded HE then AP loads up automatically for the next salvo.

Not a bad game at all - just a bit more situational awareness in regards to shell type and ship.

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There were several things out of your control that extended the match much longer than it needed.   The first is the map itself - TRAP.   A is the trap, and the bulk of your team streamed to A.   While it does provide cover, it tends to keep the team that caps A stalled at A.    It was the 8 minute mark before your front-most ships at A peeked around the corner.   

Your C group stalled.   If spawned at C, TAKE IT, since the majority of folks head to A/B.   They ran into a BB and CA and turned.   The French cruiser took his baguettes to the far corner, and wasn't a factor.   

They took B and moved to C, while they had a QE stalling your team at A.    Had the two red BBs stayed between B and A, instead of turning to C, it might have been a different story.

 

Now, on to your play.   Pretty much conservative cruiser play.   At distance, peppering the BBs with HE is good.   Good use of cover.

 

There were a couple of areas that were questionable.   The first is the DD that appeared in A.   You turned and fired.  That was ok.   The DD smoked, and there was a Cleveland and DD in the cap with the red DD.   Rather than keeping with your group that rounded A, you turned back to A to focus attention on the DD.    However, you did abandon that and rejoined your group that was pushing B.

 

When you got to B, you were peppering the Fuso, who's attention was on the Bayern.   But you appeared to hold fire, and stayed bow on (priority target wasn't lit), which allowed him enough HP to initiate the ram with the half-health Bayern.  A good trade-off for the red team.

 

The rest of the game was ok, torping the BB.   With the Mogami broadside, you stayed with HE, instead of switching to AP.   I'm not sure what the Graf's AP is like, so it may have been better to stay with HE.

 

   

Edited by DiddleDum

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With the Mogami broadside, you stayed with HE, instead of switching to AP.   I'm not sure what the Graf's AP is like, so it may have been better to stay with HE.

He should have switched - it is decent AP, especially against a broadside cruiser. 

 

LWM take on the Admiral Spee

 

Edited by CylonRed

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6 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

 

 

He should have switched - it is decent AP, especially against a broadside cruiser. 

 

 I played cruiser HE for the longest time, including against broadside cruisers.   Was in the Pensacola and someone told me to switch to AP.   Citadel city!   WHA?????  

 

Oh yeah, AP for the punch, baby!     While I still lob HE from time to time, AP is loaded for close-range fighting.

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So, I don't own the Spee, so all I can give you is some general cruiser notes.

I don't like going to the A cap on that map in a cruiser because most cruisers have too little health and too low range to traverse the open waters between A and B without the support of their battleships, which can lead to you getting stuck or left behind if the enemy does not come out to meet you at A. This is largely what happened in that battle, but even so you were way too cautious. You played like a third line french cruiser, or an IJN battleship, both of which are ship lines with a lot more shells to waste on dispersion than you in the Spee.

As a result, your damage output was severely neutered.

 

This was made worse by you never switching to AP, which could have easily allowed you to citadel that broadside cruiser at the end (and maybe, according to other people in this thread, the broadside Fuso as well). In any case, your main mistake in the brawl at the end was that you did not wiggle your ship enough. You should use your long reload times to angle the ship, and then swing out to fire a volley once the guns are reloaded. As it was, you sailed mostly in a straight line at an angle where the cruiser (a mogami?) could consistently AP penetrate you from the front. There's no need to point your rear turret at him if it's not reloaded. 

Because you never deviated your course, you were also showing a full broadside to the Scharnhorst at the end, and it was only by his astronomically terrible aim that you avoided being deleted right then and there. Find an angle at which you show as much armour to both opponents in a brawl. If that is not possible, then wiggle to make yourself as difficult a target as possible.

 

As a more overall note, you spent just about the entire game firing at battleships, which isn't really a cruiser's role. Maybe it's different for the Spee, especially as fighting DDs would be very difficult in it, but in general, fights against other cruisers should be preferred to fights against battleships, as your damage will be more valuable, your armour and angling more effective, and your shells more likely to citadel. THis was again a result of your extremely cautious strategy.

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3 minutes ago, senseNOTmade said:

As a more overall note, you spent just about the entire game firing at battleships, which isn't really a cruiser's role. Maybe it's different for the Spee, especially as fighting DDs would be very difficult in it, but in general, fights against other cruisers should be preferred to fights against battleships, as your damage will be more valuable, your armour and angling more effective, and your shells more likely to citadel. THis was again a result of your extremely cautious strategy.

It depends.   I'll grant you the biggest impact will be to eliminate other cruisers.   It was a bit hard in this match, as the green team had three cruisers behind the islands at A.   The lone B cruiser didn't last long, and the French cruiser at C surrendered to the corner.

 

In the case of this game, there weren't any cruisers to go after, except three at the end of the game - New Orleans and Cleveland at the B island (which were looked at, but not fired at - instead firing at the Fuso), and the Mogami at the end.

 

So, I say it depends, given how the map is playing out.  If there's a cruiser available, I'll probably go after that.   However, if I see a stall (such as TRAP A), I may go into the open and start peppering the BBs, hoping they'll turn attention to me and allow the stall to start moving again.

 

I get shiny-object syndrome when I'm playing the BB.   See a cruiser pop up, and I'll switch targets quickly.  Sometimes, that's a potato move, as it takes me from finishing off a BB, or other obstacle in front of me.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, senseNOTmade said:

 

 

46 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

 

 

1 hour ago, CylonRed said:

 

Thank you all, I will try to use your advice. I know the Map Awareness is one of my big weakness, with the HUD being in the lower right side and my vision it is a bad combo even big as it is I have a hard time seeing it, wish it could be moved. 

Using only HE and the DDs, that was DUh! moments on my part, no other excuse!

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Any time!   I appreciate the opportunity to armchair quarterback, and upvoted you for the courage to throw the replay out for constructive advice.   I may do that at some point, once my skin grows thicker :etc_hide_turtle:

And yes, the game is easy to play, but a bit harder to master, juggling positioning, aim, re-positioning, ammo-choice, situational awareness, and prediction.    You can get most of those right, and still lose a match or end up potato-flavored.  And even with wins, there's always something else that could have been done more effectively.  I have a long way to go, myself!  o7 

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4 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

I get shiny-object syndrome when I'm playing the BB.   

This happens also to me with some targets, not just while play a BB. Especially if I get into revenge mode, i.e. "I am going to get you, ya little bastard", I think that is what happen with the Scharnhorst.

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7 hours ago, DiddleDum said:

In the case of this game, there weren't any cruisers to go after, except three at the end of the game - New Orleans and Cleveland at the B island (which were looked at, but not fired at - instead firing at the Fuso), and the Mogami at the end.

 

Broadly I agree with you. Damage on battleships is by no means worthless, and if the strategic situation isn't favorable to cruiser hunting, firing on BBs is a perfectly acceptable tactic. I think my point was more that by deciding to go to A and by playing in such a cautious way, he made firing at BBs the only viable option. Given different choices at the beginning and during the match, he may have had more opportunities to fire at cruisers.

7 hours ago, Chaos_EN2 said:

Thank you all, I will try to use your advice. I know the Map Awareness is one of my big weakness, with the HUD being in the lower right side and my vision it is a bad combo even big as it is I have a hard time seeing it, wish it could be moved. 

Using only HE and the DDs, that was DUh! moments on my part, no other excuse!

Yea, np, I was very happy to give advice. Upon re-reading I feel like my original post was a bit too critical, so I just wanted to make clear that your game here was perfectly acceptable, you made generally the right decisions and played it smart. It's better to be a live damage dealer than a dead yolo potato. It's just kinda hard to improve your game on praise, so I focused a lot on the things you could have done better. You by no means played badly in that battle.

 

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6 hours ago, senseNOTmade said:

Upon re-reading I feel like my original post was a bit too critical

No it was just fine, I take that type, it is the foul language type you see in game that gets me going. 

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Here is a video I put together a while ago on some things that helped me out.  Now before you crucify me for suggesting stats, hear the video out and let me explain further what I mean... plus there are some other things listed there that aren't stat related:

 

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On the Spee, FWIW, use AP - don't bother with HE. Use cover and release your fighter to spot. Angle at all times. Never exit cover broadside to the enemy. Shoot at anything any of your guns are pointed at. Turn to get guns on target, do not wait for them to rotate. Use torps liberally, but preserve them late in the game to surprise unsuspecting BBs.  

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7 hours ago, UrPeaceKeeper said:

Here is a video I put together a while ago on some things that helped me out.  Now before you crucify me for suggesting stats, hear the video out and let me explain further what I mean... plus there are some other things listed there that aren't stat related:

Thanks UrPeaceKeeper I have seen that video - A Big Thumbs up:cap_like:, it is one of the reasons that I am even trying to improve my game and playing Randoms. And I recommend your videos to other players a lot. In fact yours, Notsers, NoZoup's, IChase's have all helped me in more ways than I can ever type here.

7 hours ago, NashW8 said:

On the Spee, FWIW, use AP - don't bother with HE. Use cover and release your fighter to spot. Angle at all times. Never exit cover broadside to the enemy. Shoot at anything any of your guns are pointed at. Turn to get guns on target, do not wait for them to rotate. Use torps liberally, but preserve them late in the game to surprise unsuspecting BBs.  

Thank you NashW8, I will try working on those.

Edited by Chaos_EN2

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On 11/15/2017 at 7:52 AM, Chaos_EN2 said:

As many of you know I am not the biggest Random player and a big supporter of the improvement of Co-Op. But I do play a random game off and on, so I have decided to post a replay here from one of my Random Games.One of those happen this past Friday, (I took the day off), and I was in my beloved HSF Graf Spee, I looking for input on improving my game as a whole not just for Random or Co-Op. 

So I hope this will not turn into Co-Op vs. Random posting that is not what I am looking for.

And Thanks ahead of time:Smile_honoring:

https://replayswows.com/replay/9026

 

Didn't watch the video, but the general tips for play in the Graf Spee are:

 

- Flee from battleships.  Don't sit there and try to farm damage on them.

- Aggressively engage enemy cruisers

- AP is your friend

 

Basically, play as if you're a battlecruiser with no armor.

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1 minute ago, TheDreadnought said:

 

Didn't watch the video, but the general tips for play in the Graf Spee are:

 

- Flee from battleships.  Don't sit there and try to farm damage on them.

- Aggressively engage enemy cruisers

- AP is your friend

 

Basically, play as if you're a battlecruiser with no armor.

Thank you.

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