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GreyFox78659

This dead horse must be beaten!

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Please Tone was a scout/AA heavy cruiser not a hybrid CV 

 

Just slap some AA and a larger inventory of scout planes or fighters on the model and release her already.

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Only 8 main guns, going to be hard to balance if the scout plane component does not add anything for a cruiser.  Would you  operate like a Nelson, Izumo or Dunkerque?  

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Seems to me that there's no point to the Tone within this game, aside from some collectors wanting to see it in their ports.

There are no true scout planes in the game, only spotters and cat fighters.  A true scout plane should be able to be given an order to go to a way point on the map and then return, maybe 2 way points.  But that kind of ability doesn't exist in the game. 

Another way that true scout planes could be implemented would be similar to carrier planes (though as single planes) that were fully controllable but were not armed (or maybe had a rear gunner, though a single plane with only a rear gunner seems rather weak in any fight with a full squadron of fighters).  That said, fully controllable scout planes would quickly become the bane of DDs, at least those without great AA, like the Kidd and some others.

 

Furthermore, just packing a Tone with a bunch of extra spotters and/or cat fighters just for the sake of getting her released seems pointless.  All you'd end up with was an inferior heavy cruiser with all 4 dual turrets mounted in front of the superstructure, and the last two of them only having broadside-ish arcs.  Also, in any battle with carriers, I'm not sure that there'd be any significant value to the Tone even with scout planes as I described what they could be like above.  In battles without carriers, yeah, such scout planes could have some value.

Overall, the Tone seems like it would be a very underpowered heavy cruiser, though I suppose that with only 8 guns, perhaps it could work at tier 7.  The real question is what do they do with the ship's compliment of planes.  And until that question is answered, it seems to me like the Tone will be left on hold.

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7 hours ago, Panzer1113 said:

Only 8 main guns, going to be hard to balance if the scout plane component does not add anything for a cruiser.  Would you  operate like a Nelson, Izumo or Dunkerque?  

Hipper and PE have eight and do just fine. I have played Tone in other games if anything she plays pretty close to a standard Japanese cruiser only with better AA.

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14 hours ago, Crucis said:

 

Overall, the Tone seems like it would be a very underpowered heavy cruiser, though I suppose that with only 8 guns, perhaps it could work at tier 7.  The real question is what do they do with the ship's compliment of planes.  And until that question is answered, it seems to me like the Tone will be left on hold.

 I pretty much told you how to handle the compliment in the first post instead of 3 scout planes in inventory give her 5. Literally that is what Tone did scout nothing else. Because of her design of all guns forward she had really good AA installed on the rear half.

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Hey

I think it would be very easy to do a Tone or a late war Ise BB; just give them a choice of increased spotter/fighter compliment like any other ship, just increase the reload times of those aircraft when they get shot down and allow more than 2 to be in the air at any given time, otherwise the ships would operate like any other.  Question is would wargaming even entertain the idea and could they pull it off without the likes of another ship we saw released this year?

 

Pete

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IRL Tone carried only scout planes, but that is true for pretty much every ship in the game with a catapult fighter. She would need some gimmick to make her viable which will involve some sort of superior aircraft complement. The AA is mostly 25mm so very short range making it for self defense only, even with DF.

Hipper only has 8 guns but those are better guns and can shoot to the rear, and better (2X) secondaries, and better long range AA, and better armor...

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19 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

IRL Tone carried only scout planes, but that is true for pretty much every ship in the game with a catapult fighter. She would need some gimmick to make her viable which will involve some sort of superior aircraft complement. The AA is mostly 25mm so very short range making it for self defense only, even with DF.

Hipper only has 8 guns but those are better guns and can shoot to the rear, and better (2X) secondaries, and better long range AA, and better armor...

No gimmicks the gun layout is gimmick enough. Just extra plane reserves and AA. Tier 7 needs another premium cruiser anyways. If you want a gimmick give her optional as planened triple 152mm guns on the Mogami. Tone was planned to get those guns but Japan pulled out of the treaty and so they built her already converted.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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1 hour ago, GreyFox78659 said:

No gimmicks the gun layout is gimmick enough.

A gimmick would be something to helps the ship. I see the gun layout as a huge drawback to the ship.  Not looking for smoke or radar. DF would be one possibility but the planes have to be something special (compared to all other non=CVs) to make it worth having the bad gun arcs and "only" 8 guns. The ship would need to have some way to compete with the other CAs at its tier.  Not sure if having constant spotter planes up would be enough.

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DF would work I like that. Also Tone would have tier 8 guns on tier 7 if it ends up there.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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5 hours ago, GreyFox78659 said:

 I pretty much told you how to handle the compliment in the first post instead of 3 scout planes in inventory give her 5. Literally that is what Tone did scout nothing else. Because of her design of all guns forward she had really good AA installed on the rear half.

But spotter planes are NOT "scout" planes.  Not really.  Scout planes are meant to head out a great distance from their ship to truly scout for the enemy, rather than spot ships for their home ship to engage at extended ranges as "spotter" ranges are intended to do.  Creating a Tone with a boatload of spotter planes seems rather boring and ahistorical to me.

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Hey'

Talking about drawback having all guns up front and yet in game we have Nelson, Dunkerque, Izumo and yes those guns can be a downside but it can be worked around if done correctly.  Just give her decent range on the guns to work from distance, use her aircraft as fighters or spotting of selection between the two.  Build the Tone!

 

Pete

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