not_acceptable

stubborn red stains, part tres

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I have yet to have one, single, solitary WT signature without a red block in it somewhere. at one time I was convinced it was a conspiracy on WTs part, and even wrote 'them' in their 'support' asking why they were able to find the unique time frame in which my win rate is 46.99% (red) instead of 47.00% (orange) or WTR is one stinking point below orange. we're talking foil hats and suits, shooter on the hill, roswell stuff here. but I've moved past that now. I think. I hope?

never mind that my WT sig was solid red, deep, bloody red, thru 2800 random battles. never mind my WR was under 45% at one point. never mind my WTR was under 600 for a short period of time. in ship comrade, at one point, I was ranked 17,458 of 17,688 players in NA. in other WoWs stat sites, I have been in the bottom 5%, in all categories excepting MBHR, in which I am practically pretty much always close to average, and occasionally damage.

even with a multiple grinds tossed in the mix, as I refuse to play ships long enuff to really git gud in them, I have pulled up my stats to almost 'not entirely sucking'. it's been a major PITA, and I find myself thrilled that I am creeping ever closer to the exalted 'not entirely sucking' status. why just yesterday I played my usual 6 games or so, and not even once.... for the first time.... did I hear from a greenie before battle started 'oh, great, we have a supertater.' followed by richly deserved stat shaming and suggestions to AFK or uninstall. as I find that butthurtful, it was a relief not to hear it for a change. that was in a Fiji !!

one of my problems (which is a long, long list, both in game and out) is that it's taken me a very long time to figure out what my favorite play style is, or at least an enjoyable play style that will hang in there long term without utterly sucking in one of the ship types, and lines in the game.

I love the Zao, still figuring out how to balance boiling the ocean, burning down the islands and BBs with helping the team to win. loving the Russian CA line (excepting 4 km torps), again like burning BBs and watching battle chat erupt, earning lots of potential damage, and generally raising hell for entertainment purposes. one of the things I like about CAs is even if there is zero team play (and it does seem to happen), I can still play defense, and pull a couple reds waaay out of position trying to sink me while I kite, or even yolo off and drag some reds out of the real battle and scare the poo out of the CV while I shoot down his planes (which seem to have been nerfed again).

discovered I don't have the patience required for BBs. this I figured out after grinds up to the kurfurst, and yamato. derp. I will at least save myself the british BB grind, even tho they have fire.

next step is to start bringing up the stats to average, and it's pretty obvious this is going to require finding some players to division up with. I enjoy team play, have done it a few times with slightly above average results, and will probably even be willing to play BBs or DDs if the division needs that.

anyway, the purpose of this ramble is I know there are players that have brought their stats way up, from as low or even lower than mine to way higher than mine will probably ever be, and I would love to hear how you did it, and maybe some of the fun stuff that happened along the way.


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Practice always makes perfect that's if you really try

 

When I was first learning this game I would always sooner or later get killed by something stupid and I would always remember never to do that again and a lot of times I would jump on to other people ships and not just leave the battle after dying and watch them play and that was my teacher


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Don't feel bad about stats they don't necessarily relate how good or bad you are.


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I started WoWS by going down the US BB line.  I was particularly aggressive, pushing into caps early and often.  I'd get great games, or potato early on, for a mediocre average, a non-existent survival rate and a bad win rate.

Then I tried Ranked play with the only reasonable ship/captain I had available at the time: a cruiser.  It took me some time to adapt to that, but after ranked was over, I stuck to cruisers for a good while.  And that's when things started to improve.  My mistakes were punished quick and early, which made for a much better learning environment than BB's.  And I effectively took the fight to my nemesis while in BB's... DD's.

Now, even when I play BB's, I protect myself as I would playing a cruiser, and I shoot at DD's with the same fervor I did when playing Cruisers.  All in all, it seems to be working well enough that I pulled up my win rate from sub 50% to around 52%.


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Play low tier american DDs for easy WTR farming, things like clemson/nicholas/faragut/mahan. And if you need a division mate, just hit me up, i might not be the best player out there, but i can give few advices. (And if nothing else, your WR will get higher too)

Edited by nothere01

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6 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Don't feel bad about stats they don't necessarily relate how good or bad you are.

All they are is a direct record of your past. Mostly just use them to judge your own improvement.


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16 minutes ago, silverdahc said:

Practice always makes perfect that's if you really try

 

When I was first learning this game I would always sooner or later get killed by something stupid and I would always remember never to do that again and a lot of times I would jump on to other people ships and not just leave the battle after dying and watch them play and that was my teacher

Never underestimate the value of spectating OP. I love spectating the match to the end if I die. For me, not only does it allow me to be a second set of eyes on the map and for the captain of whatever ship I'm following, but it also allows for learning from players that may be more experienced or better than I.

I almost always spectate to the end of a game if I'm dead. I've done this ever since I started playing 2 years ago. I feel that a lot of what I learned was because I sat and watched other players play ships, especially ships that I wasn't playing at the time. You can pick up a lot of little things from that which can improve your own gameplay.


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It sounds like you are having fun over growing your stats - and that's really a good thing. I've stopped worrying about damage and kills and focus on the win. If I don't sink a ship but know I contributed to the win I am satisfied (being the rabbit and kiting, just throwing smoke to cause panicked turns into green BB salvoes) and having fun doing it.

The one thing I can say made this possible is accurate gunnery. My shots count now and reduce the enemy strength. I join in on focused fire as often as possible. With a focus on accuracy my kills, damage, and win rate all go up.

This has helped my WTR charts show a gradual climb which is enough of an indication of improvement for me.

Good luck getting better! (And enjoying the game.)


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hello, I have no red blocks, yet...

Also, bring your stats up by research, yes, the horrible, mind-numbing pain of learning every bloody thing there is to know about this game. That's it, that all, this game requires a vast amount of knowledge, then finally, a little bit of experience, which helps you realize how to apply that knowledge.

Edited by megadeux

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7 hours ago, Lert said:

All they are is a direct record of your past. Mostly just use them to judge your own improvement.

hi lert. yes, but I wonder if they take into consideration the improvement or decline of play in the game overall? end up thinking some of my improvement is because the level of play of others is going down slightly? this may be a topic for LWM to answer, I have no clue.

7 hours ago, megadeux said:

hello, I have no red blocks, yet...

Also, bring your stats up by research, yes, the horrible, mind-numbing pain of learning every bloody thing there is to know about this game. That's it, that all, this game requires a vast amount of knowledge, then finally, a little bit of experience, which helps you realize how to apply that knowledge.

ugh. I have no clue which ships have radar (xcept chappy), and what the active time, range and SLT is. have a pretty good feel for the BB and CA reload rates, 2ndary range, but have pretty much no clue outside of the shima, fletcher, Zao and few other IJN played what different torp ranges are, or what numbers will indicate which range is used in ship compare before battle starts. I have a LOT to learn there. 


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22 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

hi lert. yes, but I wonder if they take into consideration the improvement or decline of play in the game overall? end up thinking some of my improvement is because the level of play of others is going down slightly? this may be a topic for LWM to answer, I have no clue.

Interesting question. I'll summon @LittleWhiteMouse, maybe she does have something to add to this discussion.

My personal musings:

There are several things to take into account with stats, and each deserve separate attention.

- Winrate: Since winrate is a zero-sum stat (for every 12 winners there have to also be 12 losers, no more, no less) any improvement in winrate is a direct improvement. The overall quantity of wins can't change, and over a long period of time you get the same quality of teammates as enemies, it all evens out, so winrate is a direct result of your actions. It can be padded with divisions which makes it less suitable to compare yourself against other players, but if your winrate is higher than a year ago, you've objectively won more and lost less than you did then.

- Damage done: There is an amount of hitpoints on the red team, and the more you remove, the less your team has to remove in order to win. That would suggest that increased damage is directly related to winning more, but it's not that simple. There's also quality of damage. 15k from a single DD is a lore more valuable than 15k from a single BB. I can have a very good game doing only 45k damage but removing 3 full-health DDs from the red team, while you have a 120k damage match removing 60k from two battleships, of which they then heal half back. Who did more for the win in this hypothetical situation? Just raw damage alone doesn't tell the whole story, and unfortunately the stats as we can see them on for example warships.today don't give us all the details.

- Tier played: This is directly tied to damage done. Someone pulling 45k DPG in average tier 4 is carrying more weight and doing relatively more damage to the red team than someone pulling 45k DPG in average tier 8. This is a simple result of bigger ships, more tonnage, more heals, more hitpoints going around.

- Ship type played: This is very simple. A BB is expected to do significantly more damage than a CA / CL or DD. Averaging 45k in a T4 BB is less impressive than averaging 45k in a T4 DD.

Then there are minor, less important stats, like KDR / KPG (Do you finish ships off a lot or leave them to your teammates), hitrate (Can you reliably put warheads on foreheads) or survival rate (Are you too aggressive or too passive) but those are far less important IMO than the ones I outlined.

Overall I think that it's more a case of you improving than the level of play of others going down. What might give you that impression is that while you improve, you start to recognize skill (and lack thereof) that you didn't before. What makes me think that it's less of the latter and more of the former is that several things are either zero sum (winrate) or don't change over time (hitpoint pool per team) - the latter only changes if you move up or down in average tier played.

In the end what I think matters most about stats is that you don't take them too seriously. They are a record, but far from a perfect record. Use your stats to compare yourself now to yourself a year ago. Do you see significant improvement? Looking at your stats, I do see significant improvement, and I have nothing but respect for that. You've shown yourself willing to learn and capable of doing so.

Mind you, this is my personal opinion and someone else might have a different, equally valid one.


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9 hours ago, Lert said:

Interesting question. I'll summon @LittleWhiteMouse, maybe she does have something to add to this discussion.

6qjiqX4.gif

            Dissomecussthiniong

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse

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I was a bad play for the first ~1.5-2k battles I played. But as you can see from my stats I've mostly pulled that up. I can point to the biggest change I have made is length of time alive. I went from a survival rate of ~5% to closer to 26 all time.

Staying alive makes you more effective because you have longer time to influence a match. I used to charge right in at full throttle and come out of that first exchange at half health or less. I can't stress this enough don't just charge ahead on your own, you get focused and you run out of options to escape. Try to plan escape routes and where the enemy might come from. Waiting a bit and going with teammates can make a world of difference in a fight.


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and if you're like me go back to the low tier stuff. ....I always want new ships and the t8 missions, but I've learned lately to run at my skill level and avoid the wallet warriors (ok I'm a little bitter there...)  I've been back in my Isokaze/Minekaze lately and reminded myself why I really like those and played them in the main. ...I check my WTR pretty frequently and tho I'm a red all told, I had a green square to look at today!...never seen that b4....(early on at low tier I was hit or miss but I didn't even know what WTR was yet)


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14 hours ago, Lert said:

Interesting question. I'll summon @LittleWhiteMouse, maybe she does have something to add to this discussion.

My personal musings:

There are several things to take into account with stats, and each deserve separate attention.

- Winrate: Since winrate is a zero-sum stat (for every 12 winners there have to also be 12 losers, no more, no less) any improvement in winrate is a direct improvement. The overall quantity of wins can't change, and over a long period of time you get the same quality of teammates as enemies, it all evens out, so winrate is a direct result of your actions. It can be padded with divisions which makes it less suitable to compare yourself against other players, but if your winrate is higher than a year ago, you've objectively won more and lost less than you did then.

- Damage done: There is an amount of hitpoints on the red team, and the more you remove, the less your team has to remove in order to win. That would suggest that increased damage is directly related to winning more, but it's not that simple. There's also quality of damage. 15k from a single DD is a lore more valuable than 15k from a single BB. I can have a very good game doing only 45k damage but removing 3 full-health DDs from the red team, while you have a 120k damage match removing 60k from two battleships, of which they then heal half back. Who did more for the win in this hypothetical situation? Just raw damage alone doesn't tell the whole story, and unfortunately the stats as we can see them on for example warships.today don't give us all the details.

- Tier played: This is directly tied to damage done. Someone pulling 45k DPG in average tier 4 is carrying more weight and doing relatively more damage to the red team than someone pulling 45k DPG in average tier 8. This is a simple result of bigger ships, more tonnage, more heals, more hitpoints going around.

- Ship type played: This is very simple. A BB is expected to do significantly more damage than a CA / CL or DD. Averaging 45k in a T4 BB is less impressive than averaging 45k in a T4 DD.

Then there are minor, less important stats, like KDR / KPG (Do you finish ships off a lot or leave them to your teammates), hitrate (Can you reliably put warheads on foreheads) or survival rate (Are you too aggressive or too passive) but those are far less important IMO than the ones I outlined.

Overall I think that it's more a case of you improving than the level of play of others going down. What might give you that impression is that while you improve, you start to recognize skill (and lack thereof) that you didn't before. What makes me think that it's less of the latter and more of the former is that several things are either zero sum (winrate) or don't change over time (hitpoint pool per team) - the latter only changes if you move up or down in average tier played.

In the end what I think matters most about stats is that you don't take them too seriously. They are a record, but far from a perfect record. Use your stats to compare yourself now to yourself a year ago. Do you see significant improvement? Looking at your stats, I do see significant improvement, and I have nothing but respect for that. You've shown yourself willing to learn and capable of doing so.

Mind you, this is my personal opinion and someone else might have a different, equally valid one.

thanks lert.

winrate is most important to me, and also the most frustrating, as I can only think of one battle I felt I carried a team, and only a few I felt I was instrumental in helping the greens win a game that could have gone either way. I stay in battle after being sunk, watch and try to learn from watching, or help with SA, defense (uh, nobody close to our base, and 2 DDs unaccounted for), altho, as I am sure most of you have experienced, this sometimes does not go over well. replays will often times clearly show errors, but rarely illustrate what I did that was the right thing to do. obviously what I was doing wasn't the right thing to do with more losses than victories.

one of my remaining issues is my teamwork isn't as good as I want it to be, and this is exacerbated when I see evidence of poor teamwork in most battles from the start, in combination with little or zero communication. in the brief time I was in a clan, and played in divisions, we were in random battles vs other divisions and the win rate was almost identical to my solo results. ranked battles results have been slightly worse than solo random, and this really bothers me, as I like and want to be good team player.

just before CW started, I moved, and my new job conflicts with the CW schedule. at this time i'm pretty frustrated, and while I figure there's a clan, division or team out there in the game that would fit me perfectly, don't know how to find it. when I look for a division while in game, have yet to find one. have sent chat messages when I watched a clan or division play well, with no responses so far. feel this is the next step needed to have more fun, and hopefully keep my stats up as well.

tier played.... haven't even looked at the relationship between tier played and damage done, or what that relationship is. been enjoying the Fiji, even tho it has no fire (she's a cold one, but they can't heal that, can they) but those pesky little shells hit what you aim at, yah. even if there's no ship where they land.

on the research side, somebody has a link to radar on ships, range and stuff, is this wulfgarn?? anybody remember who has that link? could also use a guide on radar use, using it correctly or usefully has been a complete crapshoot for me, and I don't really like relying on dumb luck.  

thanks.


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On 11/14/2017 at 2:09 PM, not_acceptable said:

one of my problems (which is a long, long list, both in game and out) is that it's taken me a very long time to figure out what my favorite play style is, or at least an enjoyable play style that will hang in there long term without utterly sucking in one of the ship types, and lines in the game.

 

It helps if you start developing habits which help you:

 

1. Situational awareness: Are you aware of the closest enemy? I just saw one video by Notser where he complained of a BB shooting at another ship 20 km away while ignoring a destroyer 7 km away from him. There's a term for that: Target Fixation. The tactical situation in Random Battles can change from one moment to the next. Here are some basic steps not to fall into that trap. If you're using these already, good for you.

 

a. Increase the mini map size. Hit the "+" key 1-2 times before the fight starts in crease the map size.

b. Toggle in what pertinent  information you need: Your secondary range if your a BB. Your hydro and radar rangers if your a CA. AA ranges if your facing CV's. Last known enemy ship position.

c. Go for full salvos rather than ripple fire. Use RMB for the free look and check the minimap during the reload cycle time.

d. If you're hiding in smoke, check when the smoke expires.

 

2. if you use these habits, you start to:

 

a. Avoid areas that get you killed quickly or at least be aware of the danger.

b. Go to areas that allow you to kill ships.

c. Know what ships can/needed to be dispatched.

 

Great oaks follows from small acorns.

 


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20 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

 

It helps if you start developing habits which help you:

 

1. Situational awareness: Are you aware of the closest enemy? I just saw one video by Notser where he complained of a BB shooting at another ship 20 km away while ignoring a destroyer 7 km away from him. There's a term for that: Target Fixation. The tactical situation in Random Battles can change from one moment to the next. Here are some basic steps not to fall into that trap. If you're using these already, good for you.

 

a. Increase the mini map size. Hit the "+" key 1-2 times before the fight starts in crease the map size.

b. Toggle in what pertinent  information you need: Your secondary range if your a BB. Your hydro and radar rangers if your a CA. AA ranges if your facing CV's. Last known enemy ship position.

c. Go for full salvos rather than ripple fire. Use RMB for the free look and check the minimap during the reload cycle time.

d. If you're hiding in smoke, check when the smoke expires.

 

2. if you use these habits, you start to:

 

a. Avoid areas that get you killed quickly or at least be aware of the danger.

b. Go to areas that allow you to kill ships.

c. Know what ships can/needed to be dispatched.

 

Great oaks follows from small acorns.

 

good list. 1 c started ripple firing in the Fiji because full salvos almost always cause the BBs to start WASDing if they are not already, ripple fire more than half of them don't bother changing course. this may only be a small caliber AP thing, as ripple firing with HE spammers results in far less % of fires started. 

I catch target fixation when I whittle down a CA or BB to low HP, and get a bad case of it when they are less than 1k HP, and want to get the kill. by the time they are that low, they are usually headed for a red controlled zone, or are kiting, buying time for a heal, etc, and this is when I usually get sunk. my kill rate is low enuff, every time I back off somebody else gets the kill, and then I find myself more susceptible to target fixation the next time. lol don't know if there's a fix for this with me...


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On 11/14/2017 at 10:53 PM, Lert said:

(for every 12 winners there have to also be 12 losers, no more, no less)

+1,

And my biggest personal gripe with WoWs; I don't mind losing a close match if I did well, but I quite mind losing two-thirds or more of my battles per session on top of an abysmal contribution that isn't solely down to me.

 

With all of the WG titles it is however entirely possible to be on that losing side of the equation more often in the short term than would seem reasonable for what should be a completely random chance.

Over time players can rack up an average amount of wins, but the everyday sessions over the past few months have gotten pretty awful across all of the tiers, which isn't conducive to making folks want to play more.

 

Vicious circle; the highly skilled play less due to boredom or etc while the average get frustrated and cut back, leaving the new or unknowing/uncaring as an even greater chunk of an already unbalanced population.

Edited by Soylent_Red_Isnt_People

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