Lazy CV users

[MacBreath]

We see a lot of CV players just sitting in the back if they were playing massive world of warplanes on their own disregarding what the team does. Worse than this they go for an inefficient CV sniping kill that takes more than 2 squadrons to get to, not mentioning the overtime it takes to go from corner to corner "hoping" that they wont be detected. But what is up with these CV uses just sitting in the corner knowing dd's visibility range is low and they can easily get sniped during the map while there is more than enough cruisers that you can use to screen from the enemy fleet and still not get in visibility range and firing range. I am just getting sick of these lazy kids that doesn't think for a minute to see what the tactical advantage is and how lazy their brain works. We need some type or penalty for not moving for certain amount of time because fleet goes where it goes and it cannot turn back firepower just to keep CV safe because he doesn't want to move. More or less I see some players using all of their plane squadrons focusing on torping the incoming dd. How dumb can you be to even try .... Please CV players, I know its just the game but seriously its not rocket science to use your position to screen from the enemy fleet by sailing and staying safe. For the flamers that blame the fleet for his destruction for camping in a corner (without even retreating the planes in a manner where his position is not noticed), dont. Its completely your fault for being lazy or dumb enough to even think that you are safe just sailing at 0 knots.

[renegadestatuz]

How is it dumb to use all your squads to focus a dd coming for you?

[cometguy]

CV play is far more involved than any other ship type in game. It's as close to rocket science as the game gets.

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

15 minutes ago, KOR_Yall said:

Its completely your fault for being lazy or dumb enough to even think that you are safe just sailing at 0 knots.

Apart from this reminder to CV player, the rest of your /rant is well, silly.

Different CVs with different loadouts will choose their targets according to a formula inc time2reach, threat, ability to scout/hurt, and much else besides. CV players tend to have much greater map awareness (from spending much of the game in tac map view) than the average warship player and will make decisions and choices a dd or battleship player cannot appreciate because in practice they do not share/use the same type of information. / For a Kaga with its staggered drop to attack a dd with torps, it makes perfect sense, as it does for a GZ with its laser accurate HE bombs, for a Hiryu or Lexington, it makes less sense. But, at the end of the day, CV players will attack what they see as a) greatest immediate threat to themselves, b) greatest threat to the team but will sensibly avoid non immediate threats with strong AA.

[MikeDSp]

Just now, cometguy said:

CV play is far more involved than any other ship type in game. It's as close to rocket science as the game gets.

Is it more involved than other ships too a point yes if you understand it but it isn't rocket science per say difficult yes rocket science no. Carrier are more of a support role ship support your fleet and teammates and prevent the enemy Torpedo bombersa dn dive bombers from getting to theme and killing planes.

[DiddleDum]

Just now, MikeDSp said:

Carrier are more of a support role ship support your fleet and teammates and prevent the enemy Torpedo bombersa dn dive bombers from getting to theme and killing planes.

In every CV game, a third of the team gives kudos for CV saving their butt.   Another third hates them for not saving their butts.   And the last third pays them no attention, as they're working on the task at hand - removing the red ships in front of them.

 

It can be a thankful and thankless job at the same time.

[Big_Tidday_Goth_GF]

the first thing I do when I play a CV is to chart a course around the map so I'm already moving if one of our flanks falls

[TTK_Aegis]

6 minutes ago, MikeDSp said:

Is it more involved than other ships too a point yes if you understand it but it isn't rocket science per say difficult yes rocket science no. Carrier are more of a support role ship support your fleet and teammates and prevent the enemy Torpedo bombersa dn dive bombers from getting to theme and killing planes.

And yet plenty of people will scream at a CV that's set up to kill planes over damaging ships. 

Everyone thinks they know how the CV player should be playing the game. Just stop. People aren't going to change how they play if you yell at them or call them stupid (like the OP). They're just going to stop playing the game, and that hurts all of us. Even the wolves need sheep. 

[TexJapan]

 

KOR-Yall....As a CV player, before you jump to conclusions, try to play CVs (T6 and above) and then come in with your comments.  

 

respectfully,

 

[Snargfargle]

I have a solution for the OP's dilemma. Since there usually is only one CV (at the most two) per match, why doesn't he just play a CV? In this way he will ensure that the CV player on his team is acting like he wants him to act. Oh, I see the reason why not. The OP has never played a CV, not once.

 

https://na.warships.today/player/1023888830/KOR_Yall

 

[Speedstang]

What? As a CV your primary targets are DDs.... They have practically nonexistent AA (save for high tier) and are by far the easiest ships to delete in one strike. Why would you not torpedo them....?

[AllysaRockz]

52 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Oh, I see the reason why not. The OP has never played a CV, not once.

https://na.warships.today/player/1023888830/KOR_Yall

 

Hm... pretty typical. If you've never even played the ship class yourself, how can you know anything about how it works? 

 

1 hour ago, KOR_Yall said:

We see a lot of CV players just sitting in the back if they were playing massive world of warplanes on their own disregarding what the team does. Worse than this they go for an inefficient CV sniping kill that takes more than 2 squadrons to get to, not mentioning the overtime it takes to go from corner to corner "hoping" that they wont be detected. But what is up with these CV uses just sitting in the corner knowing dd's visibility range is low and they can easily get sniped during the map while there is more than enough cruisers that you can use to screen from the enemy fleet and still not get in visibility range and firing range. I am just getting sick of these lazy kids that doesn't think for a minute to see what the tactical advantage is and how lazy their brain works. We need some type or penalty for not moving for certain amount of time because fleet goes where it goes and it cannot turn back firepower just to keep CV safe because he doesn't want to move. More or less I see some players using all of their plane squadrons focusing on torping the incoming dd. How dumb can you be to even try ....

 

Firstly, coming from somebody who has played American CVs up into the point where I can manual drop at T6, I can tell you that when you're playing a CV, it's an entirely different game to what the cruisers, destroyers, and battleships are playing. The only common ground for players in a CV is that you need to fight the reds and the reds are going to fight you. Considering you play a lot of battleships, I'm sure you have plenty of time between reloads to look around and assess the situation. I've had games where the carrier proceeds to hide in the corner of the map, and I've had games where the carrier will just sit in spawn like a runway, and refuse to move for any reason. But I've also had games where the CV follows the fleet, and sticks with them, not only to provide more effective air support, but to stay safe and cover themselves if a DD were to attempt to rush them. 

 

Now, get this; low tier CVs are not the fastest boats in the game. The Japanese can do 25 & 28 knots, which is fine, while the Americans can only manage 15 & 16.5 knots. Depending on what CV you have on your team, you have to remember that, at least in the lower tiers, the American CVs can't effectively re position. They're far too slow to evade any sort of ship that wants to hunt them down. Because of that, you'll find a lot of low tier US CV players hiding in the corners or hiding in the base, simply because they believe their too slow to follow the fleet. To state that you want to incur a penalty on people for not moving their boat for a certain amount of time is absurd. A good CV player will have good map awareness and will push up with the team, using cover to avoid being shot at or detected. However, when they get to those positions, that's basically what the have to do. You can't honestly expect the CV to sail out of cover and follow the Cruisers and Battleships into the fray, right? Because you and me both know exactly what will happen. You'll get shot at by every boat in range! I already said it, but CVs are playing an entirely different game, a kind of 'midair chess' with the enemy CV player that takes a lot of skill, at least in higher tiers. (T6+)

 

An aircraft carrier is entirely capable of nuking a DD with it's aircraft. I don't know what world you're living in, but CVs dominated enemy destroyers due to their weak AA power. (Minus the Kidd, but that thing is kind of OP) It worked in real life and it sure works well in game. In fact, eliminating DDs is quite a strong tactic for a CV player. Yes, a DD is harder to take out with an airstrike than a BB due to their maneuverability, but eliminating DDs directly impacts the enemies ability to hold onto and attack caps. If you take out all the DDs for your team, you allow your DDs freedom to roam and attack targets of opportunity, which means they'll push out from the caps and essentially crush the enemy team from the sides. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a CV using their planes to nuke a DD, because again, you've never played a CV before. Heck, you've hardly even played any DDs, so how can you comment on the capabilities of a strike against a DD anyways?

 

 TLDR Version: You don't have any CV experience and therefore do not have the knowledge nor understanding to comment on how CV players play the game. Also, you don't have anywhere near enough DD experience either to comment on how CVs pick their targets.

[MacBreath]

So considering the low speed CV in low tiers and its normal for CV players to have less map awareness even though teammates look out for them and tell them to move or send warning on certain map squares where dds might sneak up due to the fleet in some side doesnt really comprehend. As you know CV will take a major role during a game and due to that I dont think CV is too busy to look at maps lies doesnt really add up since there are planes going around the map and its the only class that has the entire map to himself constantly. I have played alot of CV in my asia account and I always put my carrier on move far from the fleet but still keeping them between the enemy and ours which is called screening and be successful to at the same time torp bb and help allied fleet. Even though there is a auto pilot mode that allows you to keep moving at the speed you set and give you enough time to focus on your planes. Its like click, click, click about 10 seconds to get your vessel on the move. As I said, since CV carries variety of squadrons, it should be used to the maximum for the fleet not for selfish kills on enemy CVs. If our dd can go sneak thats good since dds dont have much role except for spotting and torpedoes (also late tier) during the early games which buys them enough time to sail around and let the fleet engage while dds do it. CV not being aware of where allied fleet is and is just standing at one spot for the entire game regardless its a capture, spawn capture, epic center doesnt really add up and the excuses of "CV have too much to do" doesnt quiet give a right reason for CVs being lazy and feeling proud that they can stay one spot and expect all the other players to support him. Its not rocket science, you can autopilot since many people give out plans or the fleet is not that fast moving for CV to predict and move from spot to spot to avoid detection from dd which might result in inefficiency of plane squadrons focusing on just for the CV itself while the other team squadrons are bombing the heck out of our fleet with 0 air support.

[MacBreath]

58 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I have a solution for the OP's dilemma. Since there usually is only one CV (at the most two) per match, why doesn't he just play a CV? In this way he will ensure that the CV player on his team is acting like he wants him to act. Oh, I see the reason why not. The OP has never played a CV, not once.

 

https://na.warships.today/player/1023888830/KOR_Yall

 

because of the spread, and how the dd can avoid them real easy compared to bb and crs. and I meant it by just using up all the planes for one dd sneaking up due to the inability to read the map and start moving no matter how many warning CV gets from teammates

[HazeGrayUnderway]

Hold on guys, the player with 0 matches as a CV is telling us how it's supposed to be done!

[MacBreath]

59 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I have a solution for the OP's dilemma. Since there usually is only one CV (at the most two) per match, why doesn't he just play a CV? In this way he will ensure that the CV player on his team is acting like he wants him to act. Oh, I see the reason why not. The OP has never played a CV, not once.

 

https://na.warships.today/player/1023888830/KOR_Yall

 

And as I said, I have more than 500 battle exp on CV in my asia account and always moved away and predicted from enemy dd sneaking up and still managing to avoid long range fire unless team is overpowered to a defeat and there is only 4-6 ships left vs 7-8 ships

[MacBreath]

Yeah for all the ignorant CV players in NA, really use your brains and start thinking. your a ship before your a plane

[HazeGrayUnderway]

"The Expert"

[AllysaRockz]

31 minutes ago, KOR_Yall said:

Its not rocket science, you can autopilot since many people give out plans or the fleet is not that fast moving for CV to predict and move from spot to spot to avoid detection from dd which might result in inefficiency of plane squadrons focusing on just for the CV itself while the other team squadrons are bombing the heck out of our fleet with 0 air support.

 

For a lot of new players it is rocket science, because there's nothing to prepare you for those first games in a carrier. You go from sailing on the sea to being top down over the ocean. Heck, I didn't even know how to switch the camera back when I first started playing CVs. Again, there's nothing to prepare you for that change in pace and play style.

 

30 minutes ago, KOR_Yall said:

because of the spread, and how the dd can avoid them real easy compared to bb and crs. and I meant it by just using up all the planes for one dd sneaking up due to the inability to read the map and start moving no matter how many warning CV gets from teammates

 

I'll tell you again, so what if a DD sneaks up behind to chase the carrier? As a CV, you should prioritize a DD as a good target anyway, provided you know where they are (or have a good idea) and they're spotted. If they're chasing you and firing at you, why wouldn't you send your planes to obliterate them?  DDs are quite sneaky, and I've had games where I have managed to break through and kill the enemy CV. I've had games where I'm the CV and it's happened to me, to. This sort of thing can happen, depending on how well your team controls the map. As the CV player, you need to provide spotting for enemies like DDs, and cover the gaps that your team leaves, since they're quite stealthy and have deadly torpedoes. Nobody starts off as a pro when they get into a CV, and since you say you have 500+ battles in CVs on another account, you should know that already.

 

29 minutes ago, KOR_Yall said:

And as I said, I have more than 500 battle exp on CV in my asia account and always moved away and predicted from enemy dd sneaking up and still managing to avoid long range fire unless team is overpowered to a defeat and there is only 4-6 ships left vs 7-8 ships

 

And that's what we call map awareness. It's the same problem with a lot of WG products, where people don't look at the map at all or often enough to really gauge how a battle is developing. Not everybody is amazing at multi tasking, and a CV requires a lot of micro management and multi tasking. Again, you should know that. This is what I meant by CVs playing an entirely game; they're looking after the welfare of all the ships on their team through air superiority, something the friendly ships can either play a big roll or a small roll with. The best way to learn how a ship plays is to physically play that class of ship, though everybody learns at different speeds and paces. Again, CVs are not for everybody; some people are extremely skilled and know exactly how they work, while others, like me, just have a general understanding and play them for fun. Is it unreasonable to think I am in the majority, here? Not everybody is a super unicum when they jump into a CV to fight.

 

28 minutes ago, KOR_Yall said:

Yeah for all the ignorant CV players in NA, really use your brains and start thinking. your a ship before your a plane

 

Yes, because belittling them on the forum is going to make them into better players. If you hate the CV players on our server that much, why not do something more productive like a post on how to play CVs? Why not help them out in-game after you've died or something, or when the game is a clear victory? Turn something negative into a positive!   Be supportive and give them a reason to listen to you. If you believe you can help out CV players, then why not?

[aethervox]

38 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

What? As a CV your primary targets are DDs.... They have practically nonexistent AA (save for high tier) and are by far the easiest ships to delete in one strike. Why would you not torpedo them....?

I play CVs & I 'want' to kill DDs asap. A DD slipping into the rear spells disaster.

My CVs almost never 'anchor' - I am moving them virtually all the time & I almost never go to a corner or along a border edge (unless the situation warrants it).

One cannot legislate good CV play, OP, the 'uninformed' CV player will still go to a corner, a border edge or behind the obvious islands & not move their CV.

[IcyThor]

I play CV about 1/3 of the time.  Its a constant learning process.  I have games where my team hits P to turn off their AA to hide their own position, while the fighters I use to protect them are being blown out of the sky.  I have games where my team works to help me, to help them.  This is a TEAM game.  Every type of ship needs to help each other. 

 

 

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

47 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

What? As a CV your primary targets are DDs.... They have practically nonexistent AA (save for high tier) and are by far the easiest ships to delete in one strike. Why would you not torpedo them....?

*cough* not anymore/ US dds can be and often are well specced for AA work, the USS Kidd being the lastest example at tier , but lower tier (Sims) are equally viable for their MM band in AA work.

[anonym_Hf93Jbjm9WjT]

One positive thing about this thread, the majority of respondents are CV players. Which makes a change, it is tiring seeing thread after thread about what needs to be done for the CV rework, filled with comments by people who don't play CVs. (Supertesters included).

So let's keep this up, CV players, speak your minds!

[Snargfargle]

30 minutes ago, KOR_Yall said:

And as I said, I have more than 500 battle exp on CV in my asia account 

If so, then you really should play some CVs here before chastising CV players on this forum with your first post. For all you know, CV play may be different on the NA server than on the Asia server. Even if it is not, like I previously said, if you don't like the way others are playing CVs in your games then play one yourself. In most games you will be the only CV present. If not, then you can tell the other CV what to do (if he will listen).

[Dr_Venture]

The CV givith and the CV takith away....accept your fate from your flat topped god.