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SojaHeroine

My cruiser are getting destroyed too fast

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I usually play BB or DD, but sometimes I try to play cruiser, I got the 2 ARP cruiser, but wth, I get destroyed after 3 salves from battleships, every time. This doesn't seem normal. On top of that the reload time of my main battery is slow, close to a BB. When I fight cruiser with my T6 or T7 BB, It need to hit them a lot. I play the german BB and my expertise say, they do the most damage per shell.

What am I doing wrong? I'm not the best player, I'm more mediocre, but my aim is pretty decent, I miss most shots because of the dispersion of shells, so why are most other players hit me with all their shells, there shells are most of the time very close and hit almost the same spot. Not all players, but some.

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19 minutes ago, SojaHeroine said:

I usually play BB or DD, but sometimes I try to play cruiser, I got the 2 ARP cruiser, but wth, I get destroyed after 3 salves from battleships, every time. This doesn't seem normal. On top of that the reload time of my main battery is slow, close to a BB. When I fight cruiser with my T6 or T7 BB, It need to hit them a lot. I play the german BB and my expertise say, they do the most damage per shell.

What am I doing wrong? I'm not the best player, I'm more mediocre, but my aim is pretty decent, I miss most shots because of the dispersion of shells, so why are most other players hit me with all their shells, there shells are most of the time very close and hit almost the same spot. Not all players, but some.

Well maybe your just a bit inexperienced with them, considering you small number of battle's you might just need more practice with them. 

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I know that I'm not really good with them, but still, how is it possible that BB can kill me after just 3 salves, when I need with my BB at least 8 if I don't hit the citadel or magazine. And why do other players have no shell dispersion at all, I get hit in a kinda shotgun way. All my ships have a high dispersion, It doesn't matter if I fire one after one or all at once, they spread far and wide, ship types don't matter.

I'm pretty good with movement, I increase and decrease my speed, try to turn my ship as much as possible, all to avoid enemy fire, often works. The ARP cc are as fast as dd's, but still funny to get hit with all shells.

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Couple of suggestions to try out, then you can move on to different tactics..

 

Play Cruisers strategically behind islands. Place yourself behind one at an angle and lob shells over it. Do not sit broadside just incase someone can hit you.

 

Don't be the first one available to be targeted.

 

Roll in a group, but be behind everyone else.

 

Think of yourself as shining at the mid to end of the battle, not the beginning.

 

Just because someone is in range doesn't mean you should start shooting at them that very second.

 

Speeding up and slowing down while maneuvering can make all the difference in the world when someone is shooting at you.

 

Don't show your broadside to anyone.

 

Attack BBs when their guns are pointed away from you.

 

Utilize your concealment when the heat is on you. Stop firing when needed.

Edited by Wulfgarn
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8 minutes ago, SojaHeroine said:

I know that I'm not really good with them, but still, how is it possible that BB can kill me after just 3 salves, when I need with my BB at least 8 if I don't hit the citadel or magazine. And why do other players have no shell dispersion at all, I get hit in a kinda shotgun way. All my ships have a high dispersion, It doesn't matter if I fire one after one or all at once, they spread far and wide, ship types don't matter.

I'm pretty good with movement, I increase and decrease my speed, try to turn my ship as much as possible, all to avoid enemy fire, often works. The ARP cc are as fast as dd's, but still funny to get hit with all shells.

 

Again experience, Are you getting close to the Big girls? (BBs?) they don't like it when you get too close and they will citadel you, which is why you die so fast to them. If you want to take out a BB don't sail in a broadside to them. Use you HE memes to burn them to death. AP won't work (well) against them at least not in low tiers. 

Dispersion? Ehh... it's not as bad as you might think it might just be that you don't know how to lead or aim properly. 

 

Try you best not to slow down too much, use your rudder and try to kite, (sail away from them in an angle) 

Watch some videos if you must, or I can give you some in game tutorials.  

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To survive and prosper as a cruiser, you have to ALWAYS be making yourself a difficult target.

WSAD. Angle. Don't YOLO. Get Priority Target captain skill. Don't show broadsides, especially when targeted. Watch enemy BBs targeting you, when they fire change your speed and heading and watch them miss a salvo. Use islands for cover and lob shells. Stop firing and gain concealment. Kite.

The object is to make enemy BBs annoyed with how difficult you are to hit and look for another target.

..

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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I really like the ARP cruisers. Their guns are powerful and can set things on fire pretty easily. Building on what the others have said, you need to be constantly weaving left and right no matter what ship you're in. Line up for a shot, then start weaving again when you're reloading. You never want to sail in a straight line for too long. Keep an eye on your team mates and avoid being the leading ship. If you see your team mates turning away from the enemy, you should too. Otherwise you're the closest target to the enemy and you'll get focus-fired. If you find that the enemy is outside your firing range, be patient and push only when your team pushes.

 

Be sure to check out YouTube for guides or gameplay videos on cruisers. You'll be able to see exactly how players position their cruisers and how to avoid enemy fire. Or if you catch me in-game, feel free to send me a division invitation. I'm happy to play with any class or tier up to nine.

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So, there are a number of ways for CA/CLs to avoid being destroyed by battleships. The best is to use islands to your advantage to attack destroyers and other cruisers while never giving any enemy battleships a clear shot at you. However, this is usually not possible for any length of time, so you'll have to rely on another method depending upon the particular line you are grinding.

Royal Navy cruisers have smoke and so can get pretty close to BBs and then just pop smoke when they start getting targeted.

French, some Japanese and some American cruisers can be used as long range HE slingers, relying either on their speed or the great rudder shift time on USN cruisers to dodge shells.

Other American cruisers, particularly in later tiers, have very high shell arcs, allowing them to sling shells over islands while remaining undetected.

Lastly, more heavily armoured cruisers such as the German and Japanese ones can be used as second line cruisers, in which they basically act as support battleships. Because of their armour they can tank a fair number of shells from longer ranges as long as you don't go showing your broadside to everyone, but the main source of their survivability is never making themselves the best target for the enemy to shoot at. As long as there's someone else who's closer to the enemy, showing a better broadside to them, or in a better position to torpedo them, these cruisers will be safe.

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WASD, angle your ship, use islands, use concealment, use range, more WASD, use your team mates as meat shield, more WASD. 

 

Cruisers are the hardest ships to play with. But really good ships.

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Just to reiterate here:

Cruisers at T7 and above can get citadeled by BB AP from the tier below them and up EVEN DESPITE ANGLING.  That is, a T7 cruiser can get citadeled by a T6 BB even when you're not broadside. And if you're uptiered, those BB AP shells just punch through your armor like it wasn't there.

You CANNOT take hits in a cruiser from BB AP. Single shell hits now cause a minimum of 4k damage for a pen and 1k+ for an overpen, and 12k+ for a citadel. You'll hardly ever bounce one, and there will be no shatters.  Get used to the "LOLCitadel" - it's a fact of life that even when you're 15km away from a BB and running directly away, there's a pretty descent change that a full salvo from that BB (which will be 9-12 shells) can land at least one directly on you, and that shell has at least a 50% chance of citadeling you.  Even the very best unicom players in CAs tend to get eat at least one citadel per game - watch the youtube videos, and you'll almost always see them take at least one salvo from something that causes 15-20k in damage (and that might not even have been a citadel, just 3-4 pens).

The answer is that you need to start thinking of your cruiser like a Russian DD -  cover is very important, as is the ability to stealth up and go undetected at moderate (10km or so) distances.  You DO NOT want to be anywhere near (as in inside 8km) a BB without immediate cover nearby. And even there, try to make sure his main guns are pointing somewhere else and can't rotate towards you until you either get behind cover or disappear from view.

 

Cruisers at T7 and above are now Glass Cannons - they have significant firepower, but you CANNOT take very many hits and expect to survive. Even other cruisers shooting AP at you can single-salvo kill you if you're broadside. And you'll take a surprising amount of damage from AP-firing Russian and German DDs.  The mantra for this class is:  Dance, baby, dance, and pay very close attention to the positions (and likely positions) of enemy ships on the Minimap.  Cruiser play at the upper tiers is incredibly unforgiving of mistakes.

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1 minute ago, EAnybody said:

Just to reiterate here:

Cruisers at T7 and above can get citadeled by BB AP from the tier below them and up EVEN DESPITE ANGLING.  That is, a T7 cruiser can get citadeled by a T6 BB even when you're not broadside. And if you're uptiered, those BB AP shells just punch through your armor like it wasn't there.

You CANNOT take hits in a cruiser from BB AP. Single shell hits now cause a minimum of 4k damage for a pen and 1k+ for an overpen, and 12k+ for a citadel. You'll hardly ever bounce one, and there will be no shatters.  Get used to the "LOLCitadel" - it's a fact of life that even when you're 15km away from a BB and running directly away, there's a pretty descent change that a full salvo from that BB (which will be 9-12 shells) can land at least one directly on you, and that shell has at least a 50% chance of citadeling you.  Even the very best unicom players in CAs tend to get eat at least one citadel per game - watch the youtube videos, and you'll almost always see them take at least one salvo from something that causes 15-20k in damage (and that might not even have been a citadel, just 3-4 pens).

The answer is that you need to start thinking of your cruiser like a Russian DD -  cover is very important, as is the ability to stealth up and go undetected at moderate (10km or so) distances.  You DO NOT want to be anywhere near (as in inside 8km) a BB without immediate cover nearby. And even there, try to make sure his main guns are pointing somewhere else and can't rotate towards you until you either get behind cover or disappear from view.

 

Cruisers at T7 and above are now Glass Cannons - they have significant firepower, but you CANNOT take very many hits and expect to survive. Even other cruisers shooting AP at you can single-salvo kill you if you're broadside. And you'll take a surprising amount of damage from AP-firing Russian and German DDs.  The mantra for this class is:  Dance, baby, dance, and pay very close attention to the positions (and likely positions) of enemy ships on the Minimap.  Cruiser play at the upper tiers is incredibly unforgiving of mistakes.

1) Russian DDs ARE cruisers, except they're faster, have lower detection ranges, and can't be citadeled.

2) they can't citadel you if they can't detect you. you will take some grief from friendlies for staying out of detection range till the red BBs are busy with something else, but you can mitigate that by kill stealing via fire spamming after greens are done softening them up. contrary to popular opinion, most players on both teams love late game fire spamming and kill stealing a lot, BTW, they just like to say it takes no skill.

3) don't try too hard to contribute to the team winning, or spotting, or zone control, this will result in getting detected, which will lead directly to you getting sunk unless you run away fast. similar to early (pre supernerf, but that is not a thing, i just made it up in my fantasy land dreamworld, not real) IJN DD play, the late game hit and run napalm spam is the cruiser's forte, and they are better at it now than most DDs if you be willing to put up with all the crap from the greens.

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2 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

1) Russian DDs ARE cruisers, except they're faster, have lower detection ranges, and can't be citadeled.

I used the Russian DD concept because most players under T7 will have encountered that particular playstyle already, as the T5+ Russian DDs all do it.

3 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

2) they can't citadel you if they can't detect you.

Oh yes they can. The better upper tier BB players are very familiar with maps and all the island camping locations. They're also good enough to lob shells blind into the most likely position your CA is sitting in. Even undetected, be aware that better BB opponents CAN hit you if they have just a little luck.  If you're in a CA and lobbing shells while undetected, be aware that a good BB STILL has a half-decent chance of hitting you. And if they can hit you, they can citadel you.

Sure, it's pretty safe, and certainly safer than most other options. But you still do run some danger, and you will take a hit every couple of games or so in what you might think is a safe position.

8 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

3) don't try too hard to contribute to the team winning, or spotting, or zone control, this will result in getting detected, which will lead directly to you getting sunk unless you run away fast.

Being detected isn't a death sentence, you just have to manage it well, which means staying at long range when you are near BBs. If you're NOT in BB range, a good cruiser driver can absolutely bully other cruisers and DDs - they certainly can do close range cap support and zone control.  RN and IJN CAs both have the stealth and firepower to nuke DDs trying to cap if they don't have BB cover fire, and even there, if I've got sufficient island cover nearby, it's entirely possible to "shoot and scoot" between the islands:  run out, shoot a salvo at a DD, then duck behind the next island before the BBs can target me.

Cruisers are the DPM monster of the game - nothing else can put out the sustained damage that a cruiser can, and, if you learn to play them well, they can be a VERY significant torpedo threat. In fact, the T7+ IJN Cruisers have a BETTER torpedo hit rate than the IJN DDs, and use them more than many DDs do.

The key is to make sure you are aware of where you are, AND where the enemy BBs are (and especially where the enemy BB's GUNS are pointed).


 

Early game, you support your DDs in their capping by doing the "peekabo island" strategy described above - killing DDs early on is a real benefit to your team, and CAs are best equipped to do that, given you KNOW where the DDs are generally going to be. You also focus on the enemy support CA and BBs, primarily trying to keep them on fire.

Mid-game, you find weak opponents and kill them - you're the kill stealer.  Also, you harass - spend time at long range throwing out shells to annoy the crap out of your BB and CA opponents.  Often, getting them to chase you puts them way out of position, and that's a HUGE strategic advantage to your team.

Late game, you're most likely very wounded, and caution reigns again.  Ambush hunting is your best bet - try to predict where your low-health opponents will be, and position yourself so you can kill them with no more than 2 full salvos.

 


 

Frankly, one of the best CA tricks is to start a fire on a BB or CA that's just been hit by torpedoes. Wait 10 seconds after you KNOW they've burned their Damage Control Party consumable, then open fire on them again with HE, and you'll get a nice full-duration fire. A great way to encourage this was pointed out by Flamu - set a fire on a BB, then switch targets. See if the BB is dumb enough to put out that fire - if he does, switch back to shooting at him until you get another fire.

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3 minutes ago, EAnybody said:

 


Early game, you support your DDs in their capping by doing the "peekabo island" strategy described above - killing DDs early on is a real benefit to your team, and CAs are best equipped to do that, given you KNOW where the DDs are generally going to be. You also focus on the enemy support CA and BBs, primarily trying to keep them on fire.

Mid-game, you find weak opponents and kill them - you're the kill stealer.  Also, you harass - spend time at long range throwing out shells to annoy the crap out of your BB and CA opponents.  Often, getting them to chase you puts them way out of position, and that's a HUGE strategic advantage to your team.

Late game, you're most likely very wounded, and caution reigns again.  Ambush hunting is your best bet - try to predict where your low-health opponents will be, and position yourself so you can kill them with no more than 2 full salvos.

island peekaboo sucks and I refuse to play that way, that belongs in tanks. I watch a lot of CAs, DDs and lately even BBs trying to play that way, and mostly it results in losses. thing is, they either move out, or stay there. if they stay there, you know right where they are, easy target, and if they move out, you can figure right where they are going, easy target. the exception is belfasts and atlantas that can hide behind an island and burn down the map, but this is dependent on their being no CVs, or lousy green CV players that won't spot in game.

yes, you are right, if you fire behind an island, sometimes you will hit something not detected hiding there, I don't want to be the guy that gets hit w/out being detected because i'm playing predictably. I vastly prefer to stay out in the open, WASDing like a drunk, and drawing enemy fire (average potential damage in CAs is up there lately). been hit while undetected only one time in almost 1k CA battles doing that.

the challenge is to get teammates to do something BESIDES hiding behind an island while you're drawing fire, or sucking a couple reds badly out of position while kiting for damage. greens may be watching you pull them off, or even better, pull them into a great ambush, ("bringing them your way, ready to focus fire") only to watch them turn behind an island, or leave an undefended cap just sitting there.

a great CA game is one in which battle chat is littered with complaints about fire spamming, cheating, challenges to come out and brawl (solo vs 3 BBs) and bouncing shells from BBs... the bouncing shells are a rarity.

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I feel like a whole lot of this advice could be summed up as "play BBs instead"

 

If you play it right.. and do everything perfectly.. you stand to have an ok game

 

 vs

 

if you play ok, and do everything okish, you stand to have a pretty good game

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On 11/13/2017 at 11:48 AM, EAnybody said:

They're also good enough to lob shells blind into the most likely position your CA is sitting in.

Must be running that (should-be-a-cheat) mod that puts a little x on the map where the guns are aimed.

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you don't need mod to shoot at ships hiding behind island.   after about 5000+ matches, you just know where to aim .   I hit ships behind island all the time whether they are moving or not by looking at the icon moving,  minimap and estimating where they will be.  

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1 hour ago, centarina said:

you don't need mod to shoot at ships hiding behind island.

It is pretty tough if the ship isn't spotted at all which is what was implied from the previous post. Once you break target-lock, you are now shooting at the island. Lobbing shells over an island at a spotted target is relatively easy (with high arc guns).

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3 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

It is pretty tough if the ship isn't spotted at all which is what was implied from the previous post. Once you break target-lock, you are now shooting at the island. Lobbing shells over an island at a spotted target is relatively easy (with high arc guns).

Nope, not that difficult at all.

And you don't need a mod, or a cheat, either.

 

Trick is, NOT to aim the guns at the island OR where you think the ship is (i.e. don't leave the gunsight on the same place where it was when you detected it). You'll ram your shells right into the island.

No, the trick is to place the aiming cursor Juuuuuuust above the crest of the island. That will very often work, especially if the enemy isn't literally beached next to the island. It works best for ships which have the nice "moonshot" style guns (e.g. US, in partiuclar), but it's OK for stuff that isn't railguns, too (i.e. it generally won't work with Russian ships, and many German ones too).  The key here is that you need to be 8-10km away, and the island can't be too tall. But it will definitely work in a minority of the times, and every time it does work, it tends to spook the enemy into moving from their shelter.

Even better, if you've got a spotter plane up, even if you cant' detect the enemy ship, that makes it pretty easy to just target the area of ocean behind the island.

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On 11/12/2017 at 9:45 PM, SojaHeroine said:

... how is it possible that BB can kill me after just 3 salves...

Because it became World of Battleships some time ago.  Nerfs to ships BBs target are buffs to BBs.  It's important to remember this: BBs are the most expensive ships to play, which means they provide WOW with the greatest profit potential.  It's a business, and in business it's best to keep the cash cows happy.

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 you can beat BBs in a cruiser, but takes more skill.   cruisers have higher ceiling, but  high floor as well.      My 90day stat shows that I have higher wtr, WR and survivability in cruiser than BB  by small amount while playing bit higher tier.    BB does do more  avg dmg though.  I've played cruisers the most as well.     

 

the key is don't get hit while hitting back as much as possible and starting fire.  :D

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Overall between DDs, CLs, CAs and BBs, CLS and CAs are the most challenging ship type in general to do well with.  DDs stand out as the easiest, most impactful and gratifying to play followed by BBs.  

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On 11/17/2017 at 5:01 PM, EAnybody said:

Nope, not that difficult at all.

And you don't need a mod, or a cheat, either.

 

Trick is, NOT to aim the guns at the island OR where you think the ship is (i.e. don't leave the gunsight on the same place where it was when you detected it). You'll ram your shells right into the island.

No, the trick is to place the aiming cursor Juuuuuuust above the crest of the island. That will very often work, especially if the enemy isn't literally beached next to the island.

By placing your reticule just above the crest of the island, your ship will be targeting the ocean well past the island. This will not cause your shells to fall just over the obstacle as you claim, but rather 5k behind the obstacle.

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1 hour ago, FleetAdmiral_Assassin said:

By placing your reticule just above the crest of the island, your ship will be targeting the ocean well past the island. This will not cause your shells to fall just over the obstacle as you claim, but rather 5k behind the obstacle.

This is more my experience but I suppose it depends on the range of your guns, the moonshot characteristics of those guns and the height of the island. Spotter plane may make it possible also.

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26 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

This is more my experience but I suppose it depends on the range of your guns, the moonshot characteristics of those guns and the height of the island. Spotter plane may make it possible also.

The game attempts to auto-calculate distance for every shot for you, whatever you are locked onto tells it the distance (that's why if you're locked onto one ship but fire on another farther away, you'll miss). With nothing locked, it determines distance by whatever is in your reticule. if you are aiming above the mountain/hill top at water beyond, you are actually aiming at water way far past the island and the game will set that as the distance.

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