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DrunkenSailor63

How come radar modules are never damaged?

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Topic title pretty much says it all.  Was just thinking about this.  Radar is inherently fragile, and on the exterior of ships.  Any shell hitting it would knock it out.  Yet it never gets knocked out.  Why?  

Could ask the same for any of the other components, but they aren't nearly as fragile as radar would be.  Sonar, for example, would essentially require a hit destroying the sonar room.  Radar would just require any shell hitting the radar mast.

FWIW, as an example, I've seen the Missouri's radar, and its right out on the bow of the ship.  It couldn't even fire its own guns forward without destroying it.

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Unless you have the precision in shooting the corning tower and radar equipment like Mirai in a manga named Zipang, you shouldn't think about it.

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Again, this game is not a realistic simulator, this is an arcade game. It would be pretty frustrating, for example, for a Des Moines taking great risks, attempt to help out the destroyers with their push, just to be instantly denied because some enemy destroyer decided to say "fk you" with their little pew-pew styrofoam launcher.

Plus, in this game, a lot of the ships with advanced radar systems cannot use radar consumable in this game. Almost all German ships that made to the mid-late part of WWII where equipped with advanced FuMO radars that are in every way on par, if not superior, to the contemporary foreign counterparts. I think in this case you are referring to truly throwing off the aim of ships by knocking out the fire control system in general, which includes numerous rangefinders also. They are also fragile, but the sheer number of multiple redundancies allowed for ships to remain capable of a prolonged fire exchange. 

Btw, the antenna thingy on the bow of Iowa ISN'T her radar. Just think about it, if you are a ship designer, would you put the ships' radar not on the vantage point on the mast, but on the bow, where it's in the way of her own main battery gun bloom, and being washed over by salt water all day long...?

Edited by The_first_harbinger
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The bird cage on the bow of the Missouri is not a radar antenna - it's an HF antenna.  (IRL)  but the mast they have up at the bow is the jackstaff - it's normally taken down when underway, and put back up when entering and exiting port.    so that the "Dont tread on me flag" can be hoisted when the ship is moored.   The jackstaff is also used to observe the athwardships movement of the ship's bow when mooring and anchoring and maneuvering in and out of the channel.

 

But I'm guessing it's not modeled.  Not just the radar antenna itself but the waveguide to get the radar from the radar room to the radar antenna.  There's tons of waveguides on the antenna, and there lots of placards warning not to damage it.  a small dent in one of the wave guides messes up the radar.

 

Edited by wtfovr

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14 minutes ago, DrunkenSailor63 said:

Radar is inherently fragile

Those ships with early electronics must have had to carry a crapload of spare vacuum tubes packed in excelsior. 

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6 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Same reason that smoke never gets knocked out or speed boost.

If someone paid for a premium consumable only to have it knocked out they would probably be really pissed.

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50 minutes ago, DrunkenSailor63 said:

Topic title pretty much says it all.  Was just thinking about this.  Radar is inherently fragile, and on the exterior of ships.  Any shell hitting it would knock it out.  Yet it never gets knocked out.  Why?  

Could ask the same for any of the other components, but they aren't nearly as fragile as radar would be.  Sonar, for example, would essentially require a hit destroying the sonar room.  Radar would just require any shell hitting the radar mast.

FWIW, as an example, I've seen the Missouri's radar, and its right out on the bow of the ship.  It couldn't even fire its own guns forward without destroying it.

 

Three things.

 

First, radar is very limited as it is.  Once activated it operates only for a few seconds, has a very short range, and has a minutes-long "cooldown" before you can use it again.  Radar is down most of the time during matches.

 

Second, this game is far, far from a simulator.  Other than the ship's visual appearance, almost nothing about this game is realistic.  So it will save you some frustration later on if you stopped comparing this game to any real-world examples, in any way.

 

Finally, that antenna on the bow is not a radar, but a discage HF radio antenna. 

 

 

The only modules that get knocked out are those that enable the ship to move or deal damage (engine, turrets and other gun mounts, torpedo mounts, etc).  Consumables (Smoke, Radar, Repiar, etc) do not get knocked out.

 

Edited by Kuckoo

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45 minutes ago, DrunkenSailor63 said:

Topic title pretty much says it all.  Was just thinking about this.  Radar is inherently fragile, and on the exterior of ships.  Any shell hitting it would knock it out.  Yet it never gets knocked out.  Why?  

Could ask the same for any of the other components, but they aren't nearly as fragile as radar would be.  Sonar, for example, would essentially require a hit destroying the sonar room.  Radar would just require any shell hitting the radar mast.

FWIW, as an example, I've seen the Missouri's radar, and its right out on the bow of the ship.  It couldn't even fire its own guns forward without destroying it.

Magic LOL. I have asked the same question.

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22 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Once activated it operates only for a few seconds, has a very short range...

This made me lol.

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 Consumables don't get damaged.

Edited by m373x
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Module vs. Consumable. 

Radar is not a module, despite the fact the game does a poor job of differentiating between the two.

https://worldofwarships.com/en/content/guides/ship-upgrades/

In reality, ships have/had multiple different radars, used for different things.  The surface surveillance/search radar is usually represented by a fairly large antenna that somewhat resembles a mattress spring.  A few look like a dish; Missouri's is concave and oval shaped.  They are usually mounted at the top of the superstructure.

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58 minutes ago, DrunkenSailor63 said:

Topic title pretty much says it all.  Was just thinking about this.  Radar is inherently fragile, and on the exterior of ships.  Any shell hitting it would knock it out.  Yet it never gets knocked out.  Why?  

Could ask the same for any of the other components, but they aren't nearly as fragile as radar would be.  Sonar, for example, would essentially require a hit destroying the sonar room.  Radar would just require any shell hitting the radar mast.

FWIW, as an example, I've seen the Missouri's radar, and its right out on the bow of the ship.  It couldn't even fire its own guns forward without destroying it.

 

For the same reason why radar in game isn't or can't be activated constantly or at any time, for any duration of time.  

Edited by lemekillmister

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1 hour ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Again, this game is not a realistic simulator, this is an arcade game. It would be pretty frustrating, for example, for a Des Moines taking great risks, attempt to help out the destroyers with their push, just to be instantly denied because some enemy destroyer decided to say "fk you" with their little pew-pew styrofoam launcher.

Plus, in this game, a lot of the ships with advanced radar systems cannot use radar consumable in this game. Almost all German ships that made to the mid-late part of WWII where equipped with advanced FuMO radars that are in every way on par, if not superior, to the contemporary foreign counterparts. I think in this case you are referring to truly throwing off the aim of ships by knocking out the fire control system in general, which includes numerous rangefinders also. They are also fragile, but the sheer number of multiple redundancies allowed for ships to remain capable of a prolonged fire exchange. 

Btw, the antenna thingy on the bow of Iowa ISN'T her radar. Just think about it, if you are a ship designer, would you put the ships' radar not on the vantage point on the mast, but on the bow, where it's in the way of her own main battery gun bloom, and being washed over by salt water all day long...?

The tour guides specifically said it was the radar, and that it meant the guns could not fire directly forward.  And it's on the Missouri, not the Iowa.
Here's a couple of good pics of it.  I believe it was to remove it from all of the other signals around the conning tower.  It would also require relocation of the other radio communication equipment on the tower.  I get what you're saying, but assuming the people who's job was to talk about the ship all day every day, and who specifically mentioned this, were correct.  In any case, it's not really relevant to the discussion.  Conning tower, bow...still external, and still fragile.

Lots of things in this game are pretty frustrating. It's EXTREMELY frustrating, for example, that seemingly 100% of hits on a DD knock out its engine, yet that stays in game.  Yes, this would apply to their fire control systems as well.  Maybe even moreso...ships having their fire control systems knocked out happened fairly frequently.  And, yes, I get this is game play (I don't like the term arcade, arcade games don't go to great lengths to make their components look and act realistically, but maybe that's an error on my part).  This would ADD to the gameplay--another facet of war that would factor into how things play out.  Trending away from 'game' and into 'simulator'?  Yes, that would be a valid point.  

Edited by DrunkenSailor63

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Should plane catapult launchers also be vulnerable to being knocked out? How about individual guns on main turrets? How about the zooming scope by taking out the conning tower?

 

Too much realism actually ruins a game.

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14 minutes ago, lemekillmister said:

 

For the same reason why radar in game isn't or can't be activated constantly or at any time, for any duration of time.  

Hmmmm, yes this is a very good analogy, and does explain it.

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55 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Those ships with early electronics must have had to carry a crapload of spare vacuum tubes packed in excelsior. 

 

Just firing the guns could often take out a ship's radar.

 

In the Biz engagement, when the UK CAs spotted them, the Biz was lead followed by Eugen.  When the Biz engaged the CAs, the Biz's main guns wiped out the radar.  The CAs ran away, but because the Biz's radar was out, the Eugen took lead.  As the last time the Brits saw the ships was Biz in lead, this caused ID issues when the Hood and POW engaged.  The Eugen silhouette looks like the Biz.

 

As for taking out radar, it could happen.  During the Scharn engagement, a British CA shell took out one of the main radar of the Scharn.  This enhanced the DOY ability to surprise the surprise Scharn.

 

Of course, WOWS is NOT a simulation.  So certain things don't get modeled in terms of being taken out.

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1 minute ago, Aiser50 said:

Too much realism actually ruins a game.

Not  necessarily, but it does add complications, and make the game either more intricate, or more difficult, depending on one's point of view.  It also makes balancing more difficult (although could be a balancing factor...ie, make radar fully functional all the time, but also make it susceptible to being knocked out).  

I like some games that are  pretty involved, but then there are others of the same type that are much simpler, and just as, or more, enjoyable.  it also depends on how they are implemented.  Hearts of Iron is a good example.  Different versions of the game were too complicated, or quite functional and enjoyable, depending on how they were implemented.

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"How come radar modules are never damaged?"

 

For the same reason Torpedo Launchers don't cause detonations when they get hit.

For the same reason we have inifinite ammo.

For the same reason Battleship gunnery is more accurate in WoWS than IRL.

For the same reason we can reload torpedoes in a battle.

Do we want to play the Realism angle?  I'm fine to continue that, I got more cards to play.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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7 minutes ago, Aiser50 said:

Too much realism actually ruins a game.

 

True for this game, perhaps.

 

However, some of us are clamoring for a naval sim with much more hardcore realism.

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41 minutes ago, DrunkenSailor63 said:

The tour guides specifically said it was the radar, and that it meant the guns could not fire directly forward.  And it's on the Missouri, not the Iowa.
Here's a couple of good pics of it.  I believe it was to remove it from all of the other signals around the conning tower.  It would also require relocation of the other radio communication equipment on the tower.  I get what you're saying, but assuming the people who's job was to talk about the ship all day every day, and who specifically mentioned this, were correct.  In any case, it's not really relevant to the discussion.  Conning tower, bow...still external, and still fragile.

That's a broadband Discone radio antenna for long range communication, and was added during a post war refit.  Radar vs. Radio.  Tour guides aren't necessarily experts on the subject matter, and for someone without a background in radar or radio communications, the difference might not even be apparent.

As for being able to knock out radar during gameplay, how about knocking out your damage control or repair party?  'Cause you know, damage to your ship can kill your crew.  How about a hit to the bridge removing total control of the ship while your command staff relocates to the backup? 

Too much realism makes it a sim, and less fun.

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2 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Same reason that smoke never gets knocked out or speed boost.

Or the Damage Control Party and Repair Parties...

Edited by Darksaint1071
Can;t seem to spell today.

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Can I knock out your Damage Control reload too, since we're on the topic?

Ninja'd by DarkSaint :cap_haloween:

Edited by Mulletproof
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