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Shadeylark

toxic players and what makes them toxic

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how many good players ever get called out and are given cause to accuse someone of being toxic?  how many bad players get called out and are given cause to accuse someone of being toxic? 

 

yes, yes, i know there are the occasional dbags that scores at the top and like to gloat and rub it in the face of others how much better they are than you are... but in over four thousand games, ive seen that maybe once or twice.  most of the times the people who complain about being on the receiving end of toxic chat are the players who, by their poor play, give their team reason to be toxic towards them.

 

simply put, if you play well, nobody is going to curse you out and you won't have any complaints about toxicity... but if you play poorly, you're going to piss off your teammates, and you're going to end up having complaints about toxicity.

 

now... im not the best player by far, but it seems to me that the better you play, the less likely you are to get cursed at by your teammates, and subsequent to that, the less toxic the game will be.  the bigger the burden you are for your team, the more toxic your team will be towards you... the more beneficial you are to your team, the less your team will be toxic towards you.

 

i guess what im saying is... if you want this game to be less toxic, stop giving other players cause to be toxic towards you.

Edited by Shadeylark
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 Bro, it is the internet. Why would anyone care about mean words on the internet? 

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I am not sure of the point of this post. If you mean that players that play badly, (in comparison to your own standards) there are essentially 2 kinds of 'bad' player, 

  1. deliberate bad play
  2. those who are genuinely doing their best

in both cases a suitable response is to make constructive suggestions/offer advice in chat. If you start hurling abuse at the "bad" player, you are being toxic, in the sense you are filling up the chat window with distracting and possibly offensive content that will hurt your teams chances of winning, rather than help. This is the essence of toxic behavior. 

  • In short, make your feelings know, politely and concisely, but don't bully.
  • You do have a report button, use it.

Don't forget, if in one match you are the better player, several matches later you will be among the worst, roles reverse very rapidly in WOWS.

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23 minutes ago, m373x said:

 Bro, it is the internet. Why would anyone care about mean words on the internet? 

you'd think that, but people still take offense in-game.

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15 minutes ago, nuttybiscuit said:

I am not sure of the poinjt of this post. If you mean that players that play badly, (in comparison to your own standards) there are essentially 2 kinds of 'bad' player, 

  1. deliberate bad play
  2. those who are genuinely doing their best

in both cases a suitable response is to make constructive suggestions/offer advice in chat. If you start hurling abuse at the "bad" player, you are being toxic, in the sense you are filling up the chat window with distracting and possibly offensive content that will hurt your teams chances of winning, rather than help. This is the essence of toxic behavior. 

  • In short, make your feelings know, politely and concisely, but don't bully.
  • You do have a report button, use it.

Don't forget, if one in match you are the better player, several matches later you will be among the worst, roles reverse very rapidly in WOWS.

the point is that if people want to complain that others are being mean to them in-game, they should look to themselves to see if maybe the reason people are being mean to them is because they gave reasons to others to be mean to them.

 

a bit of victim blaming maybe, but we've gotta admit that sometimes the victim also bears some culpability in what happens.

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Just now, Shadeylark said:

the point is that if people want to complain that others are being mean to them in-game, they should look to themselves to see if maybe the reason people are being mean to them is because they gave reasons to others to be mean to them.

 

a bit of victim blaming maybe, but we've gotta admit that sometimes the victim also bears some culpability in what happens.

What do you mean by "what happens"? You will have to be more precise. But if you make offensive, insulting, derogatory remarks, you are 100% reponsible for them, not the 'bad' player. Your own attitude is at fault. 

We all lose our cool, I do, from time to time. When I start insulting another player, I am being toxic, no matter how badly the other person has been playing. When you lose your cool, and forget this is an amateur game, and that your treatment of other players is one of the many rules of this game, you should stop playing, take a break, get some fresh air, and calm down.

Put simply, insult another player, for whatever reason, you are 100% in the wrong.

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50 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

simply put, if you play well, nobody is going to curse you out and you won't have any complaints about toxicity...

Have been top score in the past, with 3 kills, and way more XP than the rest of the team, and yet been accused of doing nothing. Even when you carry, there is a dead guy somewhere that thinks he would do better.

 

 

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I believe that what Shadylark is saying is that players should accept responsibility for their actions.

Now if players would accept responsibility for their remarks; that would be a fine thing.

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Why should you even care

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What makes a toxic player like me toxic ingame are idiots and cowards.

 

Like everyone huddling into the corner of the map to lose.

Or having that Lexington shoot down 1 plane, score 90 points, and be the very first ship to die in the match.  "How the hell do you do that???"

That fabulous gameplay where the DDs are hiding BEHIND THE BATTLESHIPS like yesterday.

No backbone to contest any of the caps.

"Hey man, be careful at that cap!  Your DM has no support at all!" [DM proceeds alone to some cap to get spotted by a DD and get shelled by 3 BBs and 2 CAs.  Get rekt.]

When you watch your Tier IX Iowa of your team sit in the middle of the map, broadside to the entire red team, and be STATIONARY.

"Why'd you do that?"

"I want to use all my guns.  Stationary also makes my gunfire more accurate." :Smile_sceptic:

You see the buffoonery on display and confirm it at the results screen when most of the team scores around 200 pts or less.

When you see a Top Tier BB score 200 pts or less.

When you see a CV score 200 pts or less.

 

I can go on...

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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13 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

What makes a toxic player like me toxic ingame are idiots and cowards.

Made me laugh when I saw that.

You are outspoken. Toxic is very different. Some of those kids out there need a mouthwash.

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, IvanPonomarev said:

If words hurt your feelings ask WG to disable chat for you.

So the solution to toxic chat is too ignore it?

Feel free to ignore players who don't meet your standards then. No reason to chat about things that are beneath your contempt.

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This is a very good question, and one which doesn't just apply to chat outbursts in a game or forum posts. I've had a bit of training dealing with emotionally-disturbed patients as a paramedic, and have developed an understanding of animal behavior in general as a biologist, so maybe I can throw in my two cents.

 

There is a phenomenon called displacement behavior. Let's say that a mouse runs into a hollow log to escape a hawk that has landed outside, only to find itself facing a weasel. The mouse can neither fight nor flee so it just starts preening its fur.

 

Patients, especially abused patients, routinely attack those who are trying to help them. If you're lucky, such attacks are only verbal. However, I have scars on my arms that show they oftentimes are not. This is just their way of trying to to make the pain go away. They can't attack the pain itself, nor can they attack their attacker, so they attack their rescuer.

 

To a lesser extent, one sees the same thing in game chat. People get emotionally caught up in a game and take it personally when someone gets in the way of their winning. This emotionally-charged state is enhanced when there actually is something tangible to be achieved by winning. I play this game for free but still have won virtual items worth hundreds of dollars had I purchased them. Those who have spent said hundreds of dollars have something of tangible value also associated with the game.

 

Some people lash out in chat because they are frustrated with things in their life and can't lash out against their peers, siblings, parents, teachers, etc. without repercussion. I have to admit that it's in my nature to lash right back. However, I've been trained to possess at least a modicum of discipline, so I try to evaluate a situation before calling an apparent fool a fool. 

 

If a child is reaching for a rattlesnake you slap their hand away with a sharp "NO!" Sometimes people need to have a bit of a tongue lashing in order to set them back on the right path. However, one needs to take care that this doesn't go too far. There are too many instances of emotionally disturbed people actually killing themselves because something someone said in a chat room or on a forum pushed them over the edge.

Edited by Snargfargle
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10 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

This is a very good question, and one which doesn't just apply to chat outbursts in a game or forum posts. I've had a bit of training dealing with emotionally-disturbed patients as a paramedic, and have developed an understanding of animal behavior in general as a biologist, so maybe I can throw in my two cents.

 

There is a phenomenon called displacement behavior. Let's say that a mouse runs into a hollow log to escape a hawk that has landed outside, only to find itself facing a weasel. The mouse can neither fight nor flee so it just starts preening its fur.

 

Patients, especially abused patients, routinely attack those who are trying to help them. If you're lucky, such attacks are only verbal. However, I have scars on my arms that show they oftentimes are not. This is just their way of trying to to make the pain go away. They can't attack the pain itself, nor can they attack their attacker, so they attack their rescuer.

 

To a lesser extent, one sees the same thing in game chat. People get emotionally caught up in a game and take it personally when someone gets in the way of their winning. This emotionally-charged state is enhanced when there actually is something tangible to be achieved by winning. I play this game for free but still have won virtual items worth hundreds of dollars had I purchased them. Those who have spent said hundreds of dollars have something of tangible value also associated with the game.

 

Some people lash out in chat because they are frustrated with things in their life and can't lash out against their peers, siblings, parents, teachers, etc. without repercussion. I have to admit that it's in my nature to lash right back. However, I've been trained to possess at least a modicum of discipline, so I try to evaluate a situation before calling an apparent fool a fool. 

 

If a child is reaching for a rattlesnake you slap their hand away with a sharp "NO!" Sometimes people need to have a bit of a tongue lashing in order to set them back on the right path. However, one needs to take care that this doesn't go too far. There are too many instances of emotionally disturbed people actually killing themselves because something someone said in a chat room or on a forum pushed them over the edge.

K60iHQ4.gif

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1 hour ago, Quaffer said:

I believe that what Shadylark is saying is that players should accept responsibility for their actions.

Now if players would accept responsibility for their remarks; that would be a fine thing.

I respectfully disagree because I believe your comment gives Shadylark far too much credit.  Rather I think that Shadylark is just looking to excuse and justify his ranting at players.  Anytime something does not go their way (like they loose a battle) they must find someone to blame so as to avoid any responsibility themselves.  Also, they have a bizzare view that their view of how a battle should unfold is the only right way and if anyone does anything different then they are noobs, potatoes, idiots, etc.  Case in point I was watching Flambass' Twitch stream.  North spawn on Land if Fire, he went west in a Kutuzov.  He popped smoke and started firing.  He was quickly lit up by radar from a Chappy and died.  His rant against the enemy Chappy player was hillarious because he was pissed that the Chappy had done the wrong thing..."what kind of idiot goes to A on this map in a Chappy"...well the kind of idiot that just killed YOU!

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I have this tin-foil-hatted notion that WG themselves have devised programming algorithms that create this 'toxic' behavior.

After all, have you ever watched a Jerry Springer show without toxic behavior.... b.o.r.i.n.g.

And so the games plays us.  We get 8 straight losses in a row, followed by a win that barely breaks 3 digits of damage.

Your team has 2 AFKs and a Lexington, while the other team gets single-digit ranked unicums and an Enterprise.

You are lowest tier 80% of the time.

No matter how hard you try, your shells never land on target, and if they do, they bounce or over-pen.

Torpedo alarms don't go off, and your steering freezes.

Atlanta turrets crawling along slower than the Warspite when you spot a close DD.

Display malfunctions keep flipping your view the opposite way when you zoom in/out.

Yes..  and if this is your only time permitted to play, and your 'game time' is running out...  you are really getting hot under the collar.

And so the salt flows...  Everybody has a limit.  Quality entertainment -- Thank You WG.

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1 minute ago, Captain_Dilbert said:

His rant against the enemy Chappy player was hillarious because he was pissed that the Chappy had done the wrong thing..."what kind of idiot goes to A on this map in a Chappy"...well the kind of idiot that just killed YOU!

 

Sometimes the "stupid thing" is actually the right thing to do because it's unexpected. 

 

“All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.”  Sun Tzu, The Art of War


 

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

What makes a toxic player like me toxic ingame are idiots and cowards.

 

Like everyone huddling into the corner of the map to lose.

Or having that Lexington shoot down 1 plane, score 90 points, and be the very first ship to die in the match.  "How the hell do you do that???"

That fabulous gameplay where the DDs are hiding BEHIND THE BATTLESHIPS like yesterday.

No backbone to contest any of the caps.

"Hey man, be careful at that cap!  Your DM has no support at all!" [DM proceeds alone to some cap to get spotted by a DD and get shelled by 3 BBs and 2 CAs.  Get rekt.]

When you watch your Tier IX Iowa of your team sit in the middle of the map, broadside to the entire red team, and be STATIONARY.

"Why'd you do that?"

"I want to use all my guns.  Stationary also makes my gunfire more accurate." :Smile_sceptic:

You see the buffoonery on display and confirm it at the results screen when most of the team scores around 200 pts or less.

When you see a Top Tier BB score 200 pts or less.

When you see a CV score 200 pts or less.

 

I can go on...

Don't forget being detonated by the first shell that manages to hit your ship

Or somehow being hit dead center of your citadel repeatedly by an enemy 22km away while you're dodging wildly...

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2 hours ago, m373x said:

 Bro, it is the internet. Why would anyone care about mean words on the internet? 

Why do I care about foul language on the internet ... because it’s rude,disrespectful and just plain not nice, people do it For a host of reasons, there brought up with no respect for others....mental illness,medication, they get off on the Bully tactic.. and just to be clear here we’re not talking about  

The occasional bad word here.... 

that is all

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2 hours ago, nuttybiscuit said:

I am not sure of the poinjt of this post. If you mean that players that play badly, (in comparison to your own standards) there are essentially 2 kinds of 'bad' player, 

  1. deliberate bad play
  2. those who are genuinely doing their best

in both cases a suitable response is to make constructive suggestions/offer advice in chat. If you start hurling abuse at the "bad" player, you are being toxic, in the sense you are filling up the chat window with distracting and possibly offensive content that will hurt your teams chances of winning, rather than help. This is the essence of toxic behavior. 

  • In short, make your feelings know, politely and concisely, but don't bully.
  • You do have a report button, use it.

Don't forget, if in one match you are the better player, several matches later you will be among the worst, roles reverse very rapidly in WOWS.

I have not seen it expressed better: +1

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