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Kpoole35

Changes that should be in place or considered.

Proposed changes.  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Should HE damage be nerfed against Battleships encouraging them to Push/play/tank?

    • Yes
      12
    • No
      62
  2. 2. Should the Matchmaker make it less common for players to join games in which case they are bottom tier?

    • Yes
      28
    • No
      46
  3. 3. Should the matchmaking Tier spread be two tiers instead of three? (eg. T10's would no longer be paired with T8's)

    • Yes
      31
    • No
      43

24 comments in this topic

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Over the last week i've been noticing that Battleships and Cruisers have no motivation to push. One reason happens to be the Constant HE spam from both Cruisers and Destroyers. Usually the trajectory of the rounds allows Cruisers and Destroyers to camp behind islands or just simply hide in smoke. I'm think that WG nerfs the fire chance from Cruisers and Destroyers against Battleships or Decreases the cool down of the damage control. another Proposal would be that it becomes harder and harder to light another fire on a ship thats already been on fire, it would add realism (Yes i acknowledge thats sometimes the only way to kill specific ships). Another reason being that players lack motivation is the tier spread does not make those who are bottom tiered to engage in play. For example a Tier 8 in a Tier 10 dominated match against Yamatos, Shimakazes and Z-52. Which simply is not encouraging because it can be overwhelming simply in the loading menu. I personaly am not against a two tier system, but i think it would be better for an implementation if they would make it to where a specific player from T8 does not commonly encounter a Tier 10 match up. Two complaints i see is "The MM has it out for T8's" and "I just got this ship (Tier 8)... Annnd its a Tier 10 Game". Because lets face it, its not a fun and engaging game when you get completely burned down and can't do anything about it or when you have a team of players who lack the motivation to engage in play from either of the reasons mentioned above. This thread is made in mind with giving ideas to encourage more play and engagement in order to make it a more fun game with a less toxic chat.

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How would it be more realistic to make it harder to set a ship on fire after it's already been on fire. If anything it would be more realistic to make it easier to be set on fire because odds are that the ship is already damaged from the previous fire and all the exposed wiring, leaking internal fluids (oil, gas, etc) would be already bare. 

 

Technically, it's more realistic for BBs to shoot at their max range, IRL you wouldn't be getting close up and personal because even though you would have a better shot on them, they have a better shot at you. 

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2 hours ago, Kpoole35 said:

Over the last week i've been noticing that Battleships and Cruisers have no motivation to push. One reason happens to be the Constant HE spam from both Cruisers and Destroyers. Usually the trajectory of the rounds allows Cruisers and Destroyers to camp behind islands or just simply hide in smoke. I'm think that WG nerfs the fire chance from Cruisers and Destroyers against Battleships or Decreases the cool down of the damage control. another Proposal would be that it becomes harder and harder to light another fire on a ship thats already been on fire, it would add realism (Yes i acknowledge thats sometimes the only way to kill specific ships). Another reason being that players lack motivation is the tier spread does not make those who are bottom tiered to engage in play. For example a Tier 8 in a Tier 10 dominated match against Yamatos, Shimakazes and Z-52. Which simply is not encouraging because it can be overwhelming simply in the loading menu. I personaly am not against a two tier system, but i think it would be better for an implementation if they would make it to where a specific player from T8 does not commonly encounter a Tier 10 match up. Two complaints i see is "The MM has it out for T8's" and "I just got this ship (Tier 8)... Annnd its a Tier 10 Game". Because lets face it, its not a fun and engaging game when you get completely burned down and can't do anything about it or when you have a team of players who lack the motivation to engage in play from either of the reasons mentioned above. This thread is made in mind with giving ideas to encourage more play and engagement in order to make it a more fun game with a less toxic chat.

 

The reason cruisers and dds don't push is becuase they are not willing to get too close to bbs that would nuke them. Cruisers have all of the motivation, that's why they use islands, smoke and tactics to get the most damage while still staying alive. Pushing in a cruiser usually doesn't end well, they need cover and an escape route. 

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One day, you may wake up and realize pushing into a line of defense isn't a good idea.

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Oh I sure as heck have the motivation, just 90% of the time I lack the support or the support leaves me half way through a push. Or like most matches I'll spawn by an objective  (lets say A) and ill say "I'm pushing A need help plz" mind you I'm top tier in my Yami. Then some rando tier 8 DD or cruiser well yell out "wez Got 2 g0 to C cap, durrrrr" and the whole team follows that guy. 

 

You can see my frustration and timidness with committing to a side when I'll die doing nothing good for the team or my stats (I care about my Yamato stats alot but I'm no snipe from the rear kinda guy)

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36 minutes ago, Pulicat said:

 

One day, you may wake up and realize pushing into a line of defense isn't a good idea.

I agree with Pulicat.

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There is too much complaining about being bottom tier around here.  Being bottom tier is not easy mode, but you are far from helpless.  I don't mind being -2 tiers.  For tiers 5, 6, 7 and 8 I have begun collecting screen shots post game when I was bottom tier and still scored 1st or 2nd on my team.  I have a bunch of them.  It really isn't too hard.  Tier 5 is probably the most challenging to play when facing tier 7's.  But it is still just a challenge, not an impossibility.

If you are bottom tier and you charge in like Rambo, you probably won't have much fun that game.  Instead, put your thinking cap on, utilize a bit of caution and strategy, and you should start doing better.

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No,No,No.

BBs have plenty of tools to deal with fire and fire is the one way many ships are capable of effectivity doing damage. If a BB is going to take to much damage then it's a sign they shouldn't be pushing in that moment. 

Being bottom tier is not a problem, people need to get over it. They even reward you for being bottom tier with extra cash and XP.

The MM spread is fine.

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Poll is curving HARD  against OP's hypothesis - 90% no, 81% no, 72% no on each question.

 

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2 hours ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Being bottom tier is not a problem, people need to get over it. They even reward you for being bottom tier with extra cash and XP.

Maybe they should buff that 'bottom-tier bonus' a bit at a time until the whining stops?

Edited by kerensky914

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If anything, game should disincentive BBs for sticking in the back. But I do agree with takao that you need to support your BBs when they do push. Personally, I'd rather go for a BB limit just like with CVs.

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1 hour ago, kerensky914 said:

Maybe they should buff that 'bottom-tier bonus' a bit at a time until the whining stops?

Because it never will :p

And I don't have problems with MM and I'm at New Orleans rn (and getting more exp for hitting ships higher than you is pretty nice).

Edited by PauloBR

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37 minutes ago, kerensky914 said:

Maybe they should buff that 'bottom-tier bonus' a bit at a time until the whining stops?

 

You assume the whining will ever stop lol. 

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2 hours ago, kerensky914 said:

Maybe they should buff that 'bottom-tier bonus' a bit at a time until the whining stops?

Pretty much agree

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13 hours ago, Gravtech said:

How would it be more realistic to make it harder to set a ship on fire after it's already been on fire. If anything it would be more realistic to make it easier to be set on fire because odds are that the ship is already damaged from the previous fire and all the exposed wiring, leaking internal fluids (oil, gas, etc) would be already bare. 

 

Technically, it's more realistic for BBs to shoot at their max range, IRL you wouldn't be getting close up and personal because even though you would have a better shot on them, they have a better shot at you. 

Because burning a ship of steel and wires is not an easy task, burning also cause boilers oil to leak. Wires dont catch fire twice unless the sleeving wasn't burned off the first time. Same for the wood decking, its pretty damn tough to light another fire on charcoal. Only ships i could see catching on fire as easy as the first time are the CV's with the amount of AvGas, light oil and grease present.

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7 hours ago, kerensky914 said:

Maybe they should buff that 'bottom-tier bonus' a bit at a time until the whining stops?

That is a pretty good idea.

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1 hour ago, Kpoole35 said:

Because burning a ship of steel and wires is not an easy task, burning also cause boilers oil to leak. Wires dont catch fire twice unless the sleeving wasn't burned off the first time. Same for the wood decking, its pretty damn tough to light another fire on charcoal. Only ships i could see catching on fire as easy as the first time are the CV's with the amount of AvGas, light oil and grease present.

It is interesting to note here just how many people have never been on or served on an actual warship. 

Almost everything is flammable in some way.  The very hull itself is coated in paint which is itself flammable (granted, very difficult to ignite).  Almost every available space between the interior compartments and the outer hull is used for ballast which is either potable water, fuel oil, or aviation fuel.  These spaces for flammable liquids are vital to a ship because of the need to divert these fuels form tank to tank to balance the vessel, otherwise it tips over.  With every hit taken in battle, flammables leak, or are scattered about, making fires more likely not less as the damage accumulates.

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On 11/11/2017 at 1:56 AM, Kpoole35 said:

Over the last week i've been noticing that Battleships and Cruisers have no motivation to push. One reason happens to be the Constant HE spam from both Cruisers and Destroyers. Usually the trajectory of the rounds allows Cruisers and Destroyers to camp behind islands or just simply hide in smoke. I'm think that WG nerfs the fire chance from Cruisers and Destroyers against Battleships or Decreases the cool down of the damage control. another Proposal would be that it becomes harder and harder to light another fire on a ship thats already been on fire, it would add realism (Yes i acknowledge thats sometimes the only way to kill specific ships). Another reason being that players lack motivation is the tier spread does not make those who are bottom tiered to engage in play. For example a Tier 8 in a Tier 10 dominated match against Yamatos, Shimakazes and Z-52. Which simply is not encouraging because it can be overwhelming simply in the loading menu. I personaly am not against a two tier system, but i think it would be better for an implementation if they would make it to where a specific player from T8 does not commonly encounter a Tier 10 match up. Two complaints i see is "The MM has it out for T8's" and "I just got this ship (Tier 8)... Annnd its a Tier 10 Game". Because lets face it, its not a fun and engaging game when you get completely burned down and can't do anything about it or when you have a team of players who lack the motivation to engage in play from either of the reasons mentioned above. This thread is made in mind with giving ideas to encourage more play and engagement in order to make it a more fun game with a less toxic chat.

I think there are two base problems in this...

 

The first is that most players learn from others and bots. This is an effect and not a cause, the cause is there is a lack of cohesion in the matches. No one wants to push without support. You push without support you die regardless of the ship type or tier.

 

The second is match making. What I mean is that stock ships (ones just obtained) should never be low tier in a match (a stock tier VIII vs Tier X). This situation makes it really hard for many players to get the experience and credits they likely need to upgrade these ships. This is especially true for players that are in this boat and are div'd with friends.

 

I would throw one other thing with match maker. It should do a high/low approach for putting divs into matches and not a highest tier in divs. Seeing a Tier V in a Tier VIII match up is brutal for most players (although some can do it and really rock)

 

These are not for all players, but for the average players that are trying to improve and learn the ships and tactics that will help in the game.

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I'm fine with all of this stuff as it is.  With smart play, even lower tier ships can significantly contribute in a match.  One of those ways is with fire (HE), which is not an option in WoT and makes being lower tier a lot less fun in that game...

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5 hours ago, delp5117 said:

I'm fine with all of this stuff as it is.  With smart play, even lower tier ships can significantly contribute in a match.  One of those ways is with fire (HE), which is not an option in WoT and makes being lower tier a lot less fun in that game...

My comment is for those that are new to the game or on the curve. Personally, I love the challenge that it poses and aim to do my best in the matches I am in. Sometimes I do good or not, trying is the key.

 

I am hoping that our input as a whole will be useful as I aspire for the Wargaming games to be something that everyone will enjoy. :Smile_smile:

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off topic but,  how about fix smoke...yes I know.... fix it more than it is right now.  As it is, still, whichever team has the most smoke has a ridiculous advantage.  NO BB, CA, CL, or even DD should be able to sit still in smoke and repeatedly fire main guns without being visible. NONE OF THEM.   DD's firing torps or a couple of salvos yes, BBs sitting still to heal yes, they should be invisible,  I'd even be ok with CLs being able to fire once or twice.  but having multiple ships firing from smoke and or behind islands without even being visible or targetable really makes for annoying rounds.

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On 11/11/2017 at 2:13 AM, Gravtech said:

How would it be more realistic to make it harder to set a ship on fire after it's already been on fire. If anything it would be more realistic to make it easier to be set on fire because odds are that the ship is already damaged from the previous fire and all the exposed wiring, leaking internal fluids (oil, gas, etc) would be already bare. 

 

Technically, it's more realistic for BBs to shoot at their max range, IRL you wouldn't be getting close up and personal because even though you would have a better shot on them, they have a better shot at you. 

it is true they should be more in the back but.... with the horrendous accuracy they give some of the battleships (Excluding Iowas & Montanas), they have to get closer because Cruisers can turn pretty quick and have incredibly accurate guns.

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On 11/14/2017 at 7:46 PM, zazo_1 said:

off topic but,  how about fix smoke...yes I know.... fix it more than it is right now.  As it is, still, whichever team has the most smoke has a ridiculous advantage.  NO BB, CA, CL, or even DD should be able to sit still in smoke and repeatedly fire main guns without being visible. NONE OF THEM.   DD's firing torps or a couple of salvos yes, BBs sitting still to heal yes, they should be invisible,  I'd even be ok with CLs being able to fire once or twice.  but having multiple ships firing from smoke and or behind islands without even being visible or targetable really makes for annoying rounds.

I always thought like that towards smoke and islands. Can understand a few salvos and not see them but repeatedly firing? No i cannot fathom that. I usually ask myself "How can they be in smoke and see me without radar or Hydro? we should be able to have equal visibility then just like in the Cyclones." I saw a comment on facebook that CA's should take damage camping behind islands (which i disagree) But i do think the Trajectory SHOULD be fixed as no guns have ever had that kind ballistic trajectory especially between WW1-1955. It breaks physics quite honestly.

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This is a good example of HE against battleships. this is on the USS Iowa (BB-61) after a hit from a Japanese 4.7 inch projectile (120mm) on Battery #2 port side. very superficial damage.

5226692036_7c1623eba7_b.jpg

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