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xXSpotted_HyenaXx

Helpful thing about battleships.

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Hello Captains! 

This little "opinion" article is inspired by some salt I have been getting lately while playing. I say opinion because, I dont consider myself an expert on this game, so newbies and vets alike take this all with a grain of salt yourselves!

Without further delay, let's take a look at the most fearsome and sometimes vastly misunderstood ships in the game, from my perspective. The Battleship. 

 

Battleships in their first incarnations from the days of sail were the most fearsome vessels afloat. Battleships carry the biggest guns, the heaviest of armor, and are the largest warships both in game, and in real life aside from the aircraft carrier. 

When one thinks about battleships, the first things that come to mind are "Huge cannons, thick stalinium infused armor plating nigh invincible to enemy fire". A ship able to wade into the thick of combat and spearhead an offensive against an impossible enemy. Right? I mean, it IS called a battleship for a reason. 

Unfortunately, while a couple of battleships live up to this generalized thought process, at least in real life. Most actually, do not. Let's take a look at a couple, shall we?

 

First off, it's important to know that in World of Warships, the class "Battleship" is quite generalized and broad. Some "Battleships" in world of warships are not quite battleships at all. Or are "Less of a battleship" than their stablemates. While dividing these queens of the seas into their own categories would be at best, tedious from a developer point of view, I can divide them here easily for you. 

 

1: Dreadnought and Super Dreadnoughts:

Dreadnoughts, such as the Queen Elizabeth , the Kawachi , the Colorado, and Bayern can be considered Dreadnoughts.  Dreadnoughts are characterized by their slower speeds and heavier armor. Usually, Dreadnoughts are the ones capable of leading a push (Behind destroyers spotting for those big guns).  Taking a punch as well as dealing one in return. 

 

2: Fast Battleships

Fast Battleships, such as my personal favorite, Dunkerque, and the North Carolina, are, as the name implies, capable of high speed. These battleships can deliver a whopping amount of damage from advanced guns in comparison to the dreadnought, but were designed in an age where high speed capitol fleets were the name of the game. Thus, fast battleships sacrifice armor plating to keep their guns but to develop high speeds.

 

3: BattleCruisers. 

Battle Cruisers, such as the Amagi, Myogi, or the HMS Hood serve as a bridge between the Heavy Cruiser and the Battleship. 

Battlecruisers are generally a bit smaller than most battleships, and in some cases such as the Myogi, carry less guns and even thinner armor than either a Fast battleship or a Dreadnought. (Especially a dreadnought). These ships were intended in real life, to sink heavy cruisers and maybe pinch hit as a battleship if absolutely necessary. 

However, a battlecruiser unless in a significantly advantageous position can not slug it out effectively with it's piers. (Look up what happened to the HMS Hood when it tried to fight the Bismarck. The HMS Hood a Battlecruiser and the Bismarck a Battleship).

4: The Graf Spee.

The Graf Spee in my opinion, and in the opinions of the British in world war two, gets it's own little category.

The Graf Spee is designated as a "heavy cruiser". But in my opinion, her fielding the 11cm main battery and a repair party puts her in the battleship class in my mind. Yet, she's ill armored even compared to a battle cruiser, and exhibits many cruiser like qualities. The English nicknamed the Deutschland Class Heavy cruisers "Pocket Battleships"  For this reason.  

 

To put this all in perspective in a different manner, lets take tangent off into infantry weapons.  Compare a Browning Automatic Rifle, to a RPK, to a M60.  All 3 can function (the latter two are purpose built for the role) as squad automatic weapons capable of laying suppressive fire. However, a Browning Automatic Rifle, while used in this role, is nowhere near effective in it as the M60 would be and thus, different tactics should be applied for it to be effective. 

 

Now that we know what different classes of ships fall into the general battleship categories, and their general characteristics (There are exceptions even to the rules above) Let's take a look at their general play style using a couple of examples. 

 

Lets take a look at USS. Colorado. An American built dreadnought. She's slow, she hits hard, and if used properly, is very -very- hard to penetrate by other ships in her tier. She's a tank, and as such, is more than capable of mixing it up in nitty, gritty, youtube gold materiel fire fights. But take heed, the Colorado, and battleships like her, tough as they can be are NOT invincible. These big queens of the sea need support from smaller, faster ships to be able to effectively use the qualities above and spearhead your team to victory. Still, a Dreadnought of this caliber should be on or near the front lines of a fleet, aggressively capturing a flag (or defending it)  and not sitting in the back firing it's guns from long range. Even though it is possible to do so from a ship such as the Fuso or Nagato, your team needs you in the thick of battle, captain. It is your participation which could ultimately win or lose a match!

 

Now, let's take a look at the Dunkurque. She looks big, right?  Those guns sure do look intimidating. But don't be fooled.  Dunkurque and ships like her often times just do not have the armor to mix it up with the big boys at the center of an objective. These ships are better suited, like their smaller cousins, the Battlecruiser, to a second line support role where their guns can still be used to great effect....but maybe from a bit more of a protective position like behind the bigger, heavier brawlers in their tier. 

I'm not going to say that if absolutely necessary, I won't cut in on a heavier warship with my Dunkerque or stay away from capturing an objective. But generally, you will not see me leading a charge in her unless I am heavily supported. 

Doing so, for a fast battleship would be at best, suicide, and no one's guns are any good when the ship they're mounted on are at the bottom of the sea. 

 

The same goes for ships such as the Amagi and Myogi, if not double so.  While a Battlecruiser, much like fast battleships look scary, and have those massive battleship like guns. A battlecruiser in my mind serves more as a floating artillery platform than anything. Their armor is thin and easily penetrated like glass. These ships don't have a prayer without heavy support, and despite their generalized classification as battleships in game, should be treated much like a very big cruiser. Move within range, and pound your enemy until their battleships turn their guns on you. Then, it is time to use your battlecruiser's high speed to disengage, while firing your main batteries during your withdraw. Rinse, and repeat!

 

 

In conclusion, there are exceptions and extraordinary circumstances in which these different types of battleshisp can be used to fill the role of one or the other. There are many times in my Dunkerque that I have had to fill the niche of a front line dreadnought. There are times, that these tactics may succeed, and I am certain there are many captains in this forum willing to tell us a war story in which they had. 

I wanted to write this article as a helpful guide for newbies who may become a bit upset when they see one of these big scary looking behemoths disengaging from a heavy firefight to seek the cover of distance or their teammates. 

Before you chide your fleet mate for being a 'n00b' or a 'scrub',  look at their hit points, and especially, take a look at what kind of battleship they may be sailing and keep in mind, maybe they are playing their ship to it's strengths. 

 

Good luck and fair seas. 

  

Edited by xXSpotted_HyenaXx
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English NEWSPAPERS called the Deutschland a "pocket battleship".  This was not an official designation.  Furthermore, the Deutschland is absolutely still a heavy cruiser in every way.  It has heavy cruiser tonnage.  its guns are 8" in size or greater, the treaty definition of a heavy cruiser.  And so what if it has a repair party?  So do RN LIGHT cruisers!  And no one is going to call THEM "battleships"!!!  Seriously, just because the D-lands don't fit the heavy cruiser paradigm perfectly doesn't mean that they're still not heavy cruisers.

Furthermore, the D-land wasn't really any worse armored that the early RN BC's like the HMS Invincible.  Those early RN BC's were very poorly armored.

Third, the Colorado was not a "dreadnought".  It was a "super dreadnought".  The first super dreadnoughts were the Orion class RN BB's.  The primary feature that made them super dreadnoughts was that they carried 13.5" guns, rather than the 12" guns that the original dreadnoughts mounted.

Fourth, battlecruisers were not generally smaller than battleships.  They really weren't.  All they did was trade some tonnage in armor for extra tonnage for engines.  Otherwise, they were the same general size with about the same armaments.  Also, you're incorrect to imply that all BC armor incredibly thin compared to BB armor.  It depended on which nation's BC's you're talking about. If you're talking about RN BC's, then you'd be  essentially correct.  But when you look at German BC's, it's not as true, because German BCs were still quite well armored, in large part because while like RN BCs they traded armor for engines, they just didn't give up as much armor and didn't add quite as much speed, with the result being the German BCs were generally quite tough ships, just not as fast as RN BCs.

Edited by Crucis

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

English NEWSPAPERS called the Deutschland a "pocket battleship".  This was not an official designation.  Furthermore, the Deutschland is absolutely still a heavy cruiser in every way.  It has heavy cruiser tonnage.  its guns are 8" in size or greater, the treaty definition of a heavy cruiser.  And so what if it has a repair party?  So do RN LIGHT cruisers!  And no one is going to call THEM "battleships"!!!  Seriously, just because the D-lands don't fit the heavy cruiser paradigm perfectly doesn't mean that they're still not heavy cruisers.

Furthermore, the D-land wasn't really any worse armored that the early RN BC's like the HMS Invincible.  Those early RN BC's were very poorly armored.

Third, the Colorado was not a "dreadnought".  It was a "super dreadnought".  The first super dreadnoughts were the Orion class RN BB's.  The primary feature that made them super dreadnoughts was that they carried 13.5" guns, rather than the 12" guns that the original dreadnoughts mounted.

Fourth, battlecruisers were not generally smaller than battleships.  They really weren't.  All they did was trade some tonnage in armor for extra tonnage for engines.  Otherwise, they were the same general size with about the same armaments.  Also, you're incorrect to imply that all BC armor incredibly thin compared to BB armor.  It depended on which nation's BC's you're talking about. If you're talking about RN BC's, then you'd be  essentially correct.  But when you look at German BC's, it's not as true, because German BCs were still quite well armored, in large part because while like RN BCs they traded armor for engines, they just didn't give up as much armor and didn't add quite as much speed, with the result being the German BCs were generally quite tough ships, just not as fast as RN BCs.

Again. I'm not an expert, I only call it from my experience. Most of my experience has been in sailing (and fighting) Japanese Battlecruisers which are paper thin. 

Also, English newspapers werent the only ones. It may have started with English Newspapers, but it certainly didnt end there, I am aware that they arent officially designated "Pocket Battleships", and since they don't fit the cruiser paradigm, but arent exactly battleships either, I deemed it worth getting their own little spot. 

As for the Colorado, if you re-read, I mentioned Colorado as a super dreadnought at first, I assumed the reader would continue to think of it in that category as I described it in further detail. In my book, D-Lands are not classed correctly, and there really isnt much you can tell me that says otherwise. Treaty or not. 

I also stated that there are Exceptions to the rules even within their own categories. Which implied that yes, some battlecruisers may not be as thin as others, or have heavier armor than others. I wasn't going to make an already long post 10 paragraphs longer by micro examining and comparing individual ships against one another. There's already someone that does great reviews on individual ships here, so I dont feel the need to go into detail other than a few off the wall examples. 

Edited by xXSpotted_HyenaXx

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48 minutes ago, clammboy said:

As u can see I need the help badly !!!

Statistics mean nothing much to me Clamm. Many things can bring your statistics down, not necessarily something you're doing. This is a team game, after all, and terrible team can ruin even the best of player's stats. I stopped caring about statistics since World of Tanks. 

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 Inspired by Salt hmmm..that might have been a more exciting read, (lol) I like hearing the other guys opinions .... +1, GJ M8 - 

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1 minute ago, chopshop64 said:

 Inspired by Salt hmmm..that might have been a more exciting read, (lol) I like hearing the other guys opinions .... +1, GJ M8 - 

Aye, I get salt thrown at me sometimes when I command the Dunkerque. The salt comes in because I make it a point to not get under 10 km of enemy battleships and slug it out toe to toe with them. So when someone on my flank gets sunk, they yell at me about not being in the fight (Even though I'm clearly within range and have been firing my weapons). When I tell them that the Dunkerque has light armor and relies on speed and bow on tactics generally to survive, I get told 'Dude you're in a battleship, you NEED to be right there fighting it out at close range".  While this is partially true, I dont think any BB should be camping at the back of the map firing at 20km out, not everything classed as a BB in this game is capable of going toe to toe with other ships in it's category. Thats what this post was for, to make people stop and take a look at the ships and realize that not all BBs are floating fortresses. 

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Agreed I have played many great games and got nothing for them and played many bad games and got the win. However I'm just sick of looking at all red if u know what I mean over 2000 games played and still all red depressing . And like I said I've played a lot of good games and just got smoked but I have played my share of clunkers and I'm not doing enough damage either because I die to quick when I stay alive I win almost all the time but my survival rate is bad ,

47 minutes ago, xXSpotted_HyenaXx said:

Statistics mean nothing much to me Clamm. Many things can bring your statistics down, not necessarily something you're doing. This is a team game, after all, and terrible team can ruin even the best of player's stats. I stopped caring about statistics since World of Tanks. 

 

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7 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Agreed I have played many great games and got nothing for them and played many bad games and got the win. However I'm just sick of looking at all red if u know what I mean over 2000 games played and still all red depressing . And like I said I've played a lot of good games and just got smoked but I have played my share of clunkers and I'm not doing enough damage either because I die to quick when I stay alive I win almost all the time but my survival rate is bad ,

 

I know what you mean. But without seeing what you're actually doing I can't give you specific advice, and again, at a little over 800 battles I may not be the best person to be taking advice from. Like I said in my topic, take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm most definitely not a wise old bearded admiral, here. 

But what I can say, as far as surviving more, choose your battles, watch the map closely at the beginning of a battle, you can usually tell quickly how things are going to go as soon as the red fleet is spotted. If you're one BB, and you're facing down 3 BBs. Prod your boiler crews and turn that boat around. Some call it cowardice, but when your damage is way high and the ones throwing salt at you are in life boats, you can take heart knowing you made the right call. Surviving the encounter to me is the majority of my decision to engage or not. As long as you survive, your guns are firing. As long as your guns are firing, you are doing damage, and doing damage is the name of the game. 

Edited by xXSpotted_HyenaXx

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You know I'm one of those idiots who knows when its time to turn and go but for some reason I just can't leave especially if someone needs help or I feel like I'm being challenged it's just stupid .

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1 hour ago, xXSpotted_HyenaXx said:

Again. I'm not an expert, I only call it from my experience. Most of my experience has been in sailing (and fighting) Japanese Battlecruisers which are paper thin. 

Also, English newspapers werent the only ones. It may have started with English Newspapers, but it certainly didnt end there, I am aware that they arent officially designated "Pocket Battleships", and since they don't fit the cruiser paradigm, but arent exactly battleships either, I deemed it worth getting their own little spot. 

As for the Colorado, if you re-read, I mentioned Colorado as a super dreadnought at first, I assumed the reader would continue to think of it in that category as I described it in further detail. In my book, D-Lands are not classed correctly, and there really isnt much you can tell me that says otherwise. Treaty or not. 

I also stated that there are Exceptions to the rules even within their own categories. Which implied that yes, some battlecruisers may not be as thin as others, or have heavier armor than others. I wasn't going to make an already long post 10 paragraphs longer by micro examining and comparing individual ships against one another. There's already someone that does great reviews on individual ships here, so I dont feel the need to go into detail other than a few off the wall examples. 

My "experience", such as it is, comes from reading a few naval related books, mostly on BBs.

As for the D-lands, I'd have to say that we rather disagree.  I think that they fit the cruiser paradigm to a tee, even if they're hardly letter perfect examples thereof.  They're slow for cruisers but overgunned.  And yet they mount cruiser grade armor.  Personally, whenever I read anyone use the term "pocket battleship" in any sort of justification for thinking of them as anything other than cruisers, I cringe because I see that term as nothing more than propaganda from newspapers engaging in jingoistic yellow journalism.

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

My "experience", such as it is, comes from reading a few naval related books, mostly on BBs.

As for the D-lands, I'd have to say that we rather disagree.  I think that they fit the cruiser paradigm to a tee, even if they're hardly letter perfect examples thereof.  They're slow for cruisers but overgunned.  And yet they mount cruiser grade armor.  Personally, whenever I read anyone use the term "pocket battleship" in any sort of justification for thinking of them as anything other than cruisers, I cringe because I see that term as nothing more than propaganda from newspapers engaging in jingoistic yellow journalism.

This may be true, but again this thread is my opinion and nothing more. In my opinion, Graf Spee exhibits more BB like behaviors than cruiser behaviors. Which isnt a bad thing, but it's enough in my mind to warrant it being in it's own little nook in my mind. Off doing it's own thing. 

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26 minutes ago, clammboy said:

You know I'm one of those idiots who knows when its time to turn and go but for some reason I just can't leave especially if someone needs help or I feel like I'm being challenged it's just stupid .

Dont get yourself killed because someone made a bad decision and found themselves in a pickle. I've done this a few times myself, and the usual outcome is the person I am trying to help dies, and I along with him. For what? 23,000 damage or so? That's a habit you gotta break :)

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20 minutes ago, xXSpotted_HyenaXx said:

This may be true, but again this thread is my opinion and nothing more. In my opinion, Graf Spee exhibits more BB like behaviors than cruiser behaviors. Which isnt a bad thing, but it's enough in my mind to warrant it being in it's own little nook in my mind. Off doing it's own thing. 

Well, the thing is that while I still think that the D-lands are heavy cruisers, you're not entirely wrong to say that because of their exact nature, the D-lands might fight a little differently.  But they're still heavy cruisers, just heavier cruisers.  Or rather, more heavily gunned cruisers, since they're really no heavier than late war heavy cruisers in terms of tonnage.

Another point is that they were built as raiders, rather than more traditional heavy cruisers, and that's a mild difference, in terms of their intended mission and targets.

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On 11/10/2017 at 5:38 PM, clammboy said:

You know I'm one of those idiots who knows when its time to turn and go but for some reason I just can't leave especially if someone needs help or I feel like I'm being challenged it's just stupid .

Don't push crappositions.  That genius that wants to go take A alone is poofed 95% of the time.  Losing 2 ships for nothing is much worse than losing one for nothing.  Hard to always read it right in pubs though.  People obviously still think Crazy Ivan is a thing LOL

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Thanks for this generalized guide. It’s helping me to firm up ideas I’d had about different “battleship” play techniques. I have recently purchased the Dunkerque, and after having only played the American super dreadnauts, realized quickly a difference in gameplay was required. I’m still trying to feel her out, but am finding the different style refreshing. 

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