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Taichunger

Illegal Scavenging of War Wrecks is Skyrocketing

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Is anyone really surprised by this?  There is virtually no enforcement to protect those sites.

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A few years ago I learned that all 8 propellers from HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales have been scavenged, somewhere around $250,000 worth of phosphor bronze. Very sad news.

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It's sad to see how low humans can sink, but it's like a purse that you leave in public: someone will eventually come up and take some of the Money once no one looks

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The remains of the sailors, long ago been consumed by the aquatic life, barely a trace of skeletal remains..  ending up as sand on a beach or buried in the sediment pulled far away by the ocean currents.  Most of the crew that didn't get off were swept off during the sinking process.  Those entombed inside water-tight compartments imploded when a critical depth was reached.

After this much time, it would be sheer luck to find any human remains at these shipwrecks.  All you find are a few buttons and buckles from the clothing stored in their lockers.

I see the wreckage of these ships as a mere symbolic symbol of death.  Basically, it's a tombstone at the bottom of the ocean.

Logically, it's scrap metal that is being wasted.  Logically, the granite and marble in cemeteries is also scrap materials being wasted.

Would you tolerate someone building a house out of re-purposed tombstones?  Hey, if it's not their house, and they can save a few bucks...  some folks have absolutely no moral compass.  Money is money.

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I wonder if any compartments did implode on PoW and Repulse?   PoW is only 223' down.  Seems like she should have had quite a few of the compartments intact when she hit bottom. 

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Just lay some mines around the sights post a marker buoyand GPS marker for a warning and that should suffice. 

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Is this really any different from the robbing of graves in Egyptian pyramids, for example?  After all, those pyramids are just gigantic mausoleums. 

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1 hour ago, JuiceEFruit said:

I wonder if any compartments did implode on PoW and Repulse?   PoW is only 223' down.  Seems like she should have had quite a few of the compartments intact when she hit bottom. 

The West Virginia was sunk in shallow water on 7 Dec 1941 -- and raised on 17 May 1942 -- 5.5 months...   What they found was pretty sad.

"Three were found in a storeroom compartment, where they had survived for a time on emergency rations and fresh water from a battle station; a calendar indicated that they were alive through 23 December."

If you've ever gone snorkeling, you feel the pressure after 20 feet.  At 30 feet, you REALLY feel it.  The breathe you took has compressed pretty far, and you feel the impulse to take another breathe.

 

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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

Is this really any different from the robbing of graves in Egyptian pyramids, for example?  After all, those pyramids are just gigantic mausoleums. 

 

most of the Pyramids were robbed back in antiquity, as were many of the tombs in the valley of the kings. The Pyramids and tombs themselves still exist, though they are empty.

 

These sunken ships ARE those sailor's tombs. These scrappers are literally blowing up these ships and then ripping up the blasted steel to take and melt down. I doubt they are even checking to see if they have remains or not in what they haul up.

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11 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

 

most of the Pyramids were robbed back in antiquity, as were many of the tombs in the valley of the kings. The Pyramids and tombs themselves still exist, though they are empty.

 

These sunken ships ARE those sailor's tombs. These scrappers are literally blowing up these ships and then ripping up the blasted steel to take and melt down. I doubt they are even checking to see if they have remains or not in what they haul up.

First, yes, most of the pyramids were robbed very long ago.  But those doing the robbing were no less criminals then than they'd be today.

Yes, the sunken ships are sailor's tombs, but so are the pyramids.  The only two differences that I see are 1) the pyramids are like 3,000+ years old as opposed to the far more recent sunken ships from WW1 or WW2, and 2) the pyramids were made of stone rather than steel.  Regarding point #2 though, yes people do scavenge the ships for the raw materials, but in the past, IIRC, people also scavenged the pyramids and/or other ancient temples on occasion for the stones to use as building materials.  So, in truth, there's not really as much difference as one might think.

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4 hours ago, Kunra_1 said:

Just lay some mines around the sights post a marker buoyand GPS marker for a warning and that should suffice. 

 

If they have time to spare, no amount of mines will keep them away. Remember that these scumbags are already diving into wrecks full of unexploded ordinance.

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Proximity sensors :fish_boom:

Edited by Kunra_1
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6 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

The West Virginia was sunk in shallow water on 7 Dec 1941 -- and raised on 17 May 1942 -- 5.5 months...   What they found was pretty sad.

"Three were found in a storeroom compartment, where they had survived for a time on emergency rations and fresh water from a battle station; a calendar indicated that they were alive through 23 December."

If you've ever gone snorkeling, you feel the pressure after 20 feet.  At 30 feet, you REALLY feel it.  The breathe you took has compressed pretty far, and you feel the impulse to take another breathe.

 

I know all that, and I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote.  I wondered if, at 223', the internal compartments all imploded or not.   Some might have held up....that's not that far down.  It's far for a human body, but not for armor plated steel.    I mean heck....the stern could sink to the bottom and most of the ship would still be above the surface.   It's not a long descent where the ship will have a hard impact at 20+ knots like Bismarck supposedly did.   Some of the compartments could have held up....IF they were sealed.  

And IF anyone was sealed in and the compartment held up, there'd be no pressure on them in there.  They'd just run out of air.  


Theoretically though, they shouldn't have been.  The crew abandoned ship.  I'd think everything was wide open.   And if that's the case, there's nothing left of anyone there. 

Edited by JuiceEFruit

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1 hour ago, JuiceEFruit said:

I know all that, and I'm not sure what that has to do with what I wrote.  I wondered if, at 223', the internal compartments all imploded or not.   Some might have held up....that's not that far down.  It's far for a human body, but not for armor plated steel.    I mean heck....the stern could sink to the bottom and most of the ship would still be above the surface.   It's not a long descent where the ship will have a hard impact at 20+ knots like Bismarck supposedly did.   Some of the compartments could have held up....IF they were sealed.  

And IF anyone was sealed in and the compartment held up, there'd be no pressure on them in there.  They'd just run out of air.  


Theoretically though, they shouldn't have been.  The crew abandoned ship.  I'd think everything was wide open.   And if that's the case, there's nothing left of anyone there. 

Watertight compartments are not designed like a submarine hull.  In fact, the upper ones didn't even seal the roof.  Those areas will implode at 100 feet or less.

When the Hood went down, all the water-tight compartments were sealed.  It is barely recognizable and splattered like roadkill.   It may have gone down in two pieces, but the sealed compartments tore it apart.

On the other hand, Bismarck was scuttled and abandoned.  All the water-tight compartments were opened resulting in a near pristine condition it was found.

If they can pick the Bismarck up, it wouldn't take much to make it seaworthy again.

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2 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

Watertight compartments are not designed like a submarine hull.  In fact, the upper ones didn't even seal the roof.  Those areas will implode at 100 feet or less.

When the Hood went down, all the water-tight compartments were sealed.  It is barely recognizable and splattered like roadkill.   It may have gone down in two pieces, but the sealed compartments tore it apart.

On the other hand, Bismarck was scuttled and abandoned.  All the water-tight compartments were opened resulting in a near pristine condition it was found.

If they can pick the Bismarck up, it wouldn't take much to make it seaworthy again.

Hood isn't recognizable because she was at full speed and blew up.  I'm sure there might have been some compartments that popped on the way down, but she's a mess mostly because she blew up, catastrophically.   Same with Yamato.  

Biz IS in pretty good shape.  Wish she wasn't so deep and a lift could be arranged.  

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