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Captain_Crooked_

AA Function Update! A Serious Proposal.

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I bring unto you all today, a series of Ideas that I have discussed with friends, whom are among the top CV players, as well as myself whom does not play CV at all, to have good perspective on both sides of the AA gameplay, and we have come up with some ideas that should be fair to both the CV players and non-CV players.

The year of 2017 was proposed to us by wargaming that this would be the year of the CV.
This is what it looks like so far:
AA.gif.f183fce37afa33616a0c18383767444e.gif

And with the recently announced USN CL tech tree, with the USS Worcester Anti-Aircraft Cruiser, things are not looking bright for CV players.

Thus myself and some cv and non-cv friends have come up with some changes to AA in how it functions, without actually nerfing the stats of high AA ships, by introducing some temporary conditions that can effect the AA performance of a ship, conditions that can be dependent on team play or that of a skilled CV player. This includes 2 new conditions that have a reasonable and sensible temporary effect to the AA of a ship.

Condition 1:
If a dual purpose weapon is reloading (whether it be a main or secondary weapon) it does not count towards the AA of a ship's AA aura. This would reasonably simulate the fact that a DP gun cannot both fire at aircraft and ships at the same time. This would also be semi-dependent on team-play, and can be done either by random players just happening to work together, or division mates acting on intentional team play. In the case of a battleship, cases where all secondary dual purpose guns are all busy are unlikely, so its not like a battleship will out right lose all their long range aa effect because they are being engaged in close quarters combat, only the part that is occupied will be effected. As for AA cruisers, such as Atlanta, Minotaur, and Worcester, it gives some skill to using their ultra powerful AA, meaning they will have to choose between firing at ships or firing at aircraft. Or they can do both by choosing an angle where some of their guns cannot be used for ship warfare, example, an Atlanta player could choose to be bow on to a target, their stern side guns would not be able to fire at a ship, therefore they are never in the state of reloading and are now currently in the AA role.

Overall, "Condition 1" gives team-play, and in some ships, skill, to using their AA effectively.

 

Condition 2:
AA Crew and Fire does not mix. Very realistic, so here is a game mechanic that can be based off of this fact. AA can be divided into 2 categories for this mechanic, Open AA and Enclosed AA. Most AA found on ships is Open AA, where the theoretical AA crew is exposed to the elements. Enclosed AA, which is usually (but not exclusive to) dual purpose AA, is AA where the crew is protected on all sides by some sort of armored encasement. For every fire a ship has, a penalty is applied to the DPS of AA aura. A ship's Open AA will receive 20% reduction to the dps of the ship's Open AA, and only a 10% reduction to the DPS of all Enclosed AA. 
Generally, the most powerful AA auras of a ship in-game is found in their dual purpose AA, and that is why I have figured it is fair if the enclosed AA is less effected by a fire on the deck. There are examples of ship's who have non-dual purpose AA that is fully enclosed, found on many Russian destroyers and cruisers, as well as Minotaur's medium AA is enclosed, and thus would only get the 10% Debuff to their DPS per fire.
This effect is additive between multiple fires. so if your ship has 2 fires set, the open AA will have a 40% DPS Debuff for the duration of the fire, while the Enclosed AA will only suffer a 20% losses in DPS. This mechanic would also increase the value of the Fire Prevention skill, which from what I hear from players is usually not a popular choice. Given the skill reduces the maximum number of fires to 3.
"Condition 2" I believe is a very reasonable temporary debuff to AA, that can rely on team play and/or the skill of the CV player.

If any of these numbers appear to be too extreme, then they can easily be modified if after play testing the effect is too strong or too weak. Overall, I feel these changes gives some more skill to AA, more teamplay to AA, without applying a dreaded nerf hammer to specific AA heavy ships. AA power creeping is all ways going to be a problem, so introducing new mechanics rather then nerfing specific ships is far easier to implement, and adds skill to what is, currently, a game mechanic that requires far less skill on the non-CV player then it does on the CV player.


Please, I do highly encourage you all to discuss these 2 new AA conditions.

  • Cool 8

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I can agree to this but. not sure about the dual purpose AA.. maybe for ships like Minotaur where its main armament is dual purpose. but, secondary dual purpose guns I cannot agree with. as secondaries operate based on range and manual fire control. and if you do not have manual fire... your secondaries are set by WG to be priority, its why secondaries are able to swivle and aim at targets and AA dont. so if youre secondaries are engaged... they wont even bother with planes... which I dont think is right...

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1 minute ago, _ARMORED__TWINKIE_ said:

I can agree to this but. not sure about the dual purpose AA.. maybe for ships like Minotaur where its main armament is dual purpose. but, secondary dual purpose guns I cannot agree with. as secondaries operate based on range and manual fire control. and if you do not have manual fire... your secondaries are set by WG to be priority, its why secondaries are able to swivle and aim at targets and AA dont. so if youre secondaries are engaged... they wont even bother with planes... which I dont think is right...

This is true, but at the same time you won't ever have situations where all your dual purpose guns are engaged on both sides of your ship, unless you have been surround by targets on both sides of your ship, AND, you don't have manual secondary control skill which would prevent one side of your ship to not engage a target.

Currently, the battleships that have the best AA in the form of their secondaries are also the same ships that don't have good secondaries anyways, like Montana and other american BBs.
If you have specced into the effectiveness of your secondaries to maximize that effect, it is only natural to lose out in other effects. So in some cases it would be better for your AA if you also don't have buffs to their secondaries role, to ensure that they are more dedicated to the role of AA. This would also go to the skill of the CV that would need to be able to capitalize on being able to target a ship that has its secondaries engaged onto another ship. So yes, this is going to make CV's situationally more powerful, which is the point, as AA is too strong in general.

 

A lone battleship with these conditions is going to be just as powerful of an AA fortress, if they have specced into being an AA fortress, as they would be before the implementation of these new conditions. These 2 new conditions would not grant the ability to a CV to devestating strike a BB from full health like they use too before the power creep. Just merely grant them, if they have the skill, be able to take advantage of situations with team play.
 

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I actually really like the feel of these two conditions.  It also forces certain ships to chose what they're doing, rather than being awesome at everything all the time.

Your example of the Atlanta is particularly meaningful.

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That would be a very complicated programming, and would take some serious code writing. Right now AA is on or off. The status of wow right now, seems to be more comfortable to stay in the Arcade Realm. Would be great if they decide to switch to simulator. 

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and everything is working so well right now ...

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Can the servers even handle an extra check if DP guns are reloading and apply different values every time?

 

If yes then I'd request that any debuffs (while on fire or reloading) be negated while the Defensive Fire consumable is active not to further nerf the Cruiser class.  

 

P.S I'm actually an EU player with ~2400 battles.

Edited by JohnnyBftw

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On 11/5/2017 at 5:56 AM, JohnnyBftw said:

Can the servers even handle an extra check if DP guns are reloading and apply different values every time?

 

If yes then I'd request that any debuffs (while on fire or reloading) be negated while the Defensive Fire consumable is active not to further nerf the Cruiser class.  

 

P.S I'm actually an EU player with ~2400 battles.

That is a good suggestion.

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It might be easier to just slightly (~10-15%) nerf AA DPS across the board and see if it improves things. 

It also seems like AA increases in higher tiers much faster than aircraft HP - maybe a slight buff to lower tier AA and a nerf to higher tier AA would also work, while maintaining the class and ship based balance which exists. 

I think it is a better idea to try small, simple changes first while working on something like the OP's suggestion in the background - it is too big of a change to implement all at once. 

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I think wargaming needs to give back the usa advantage of the best AA. nerf DF on all nations by x1. USA CA x3 damage, DDs x4, Other nation CA x2 and DD x3. That will reduce the aa damage and make playing USA an advantage at their tiers. minus Cleveland its pretty strong for 6 but that is changing soon.

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I think 1) they really should animated DP artillery to fire at aircraft targets, 2) when DP artillery is working against aircraft, they shouldn't be usable against surface targets... 

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On 11/5/2017 at 5:56 AM, JohnnyBftw said:

Can the servers even handle an extra check if DP guns are reloading and apply different values every time?

 

A way I could foresee this being achievable based upon the OP's suggestions are 1) check if the gun arcs allow the guns to be fired 2) check if they are ready to fire (loaded) for some fraction of their reload time. This would help determine a players intentions, at least roughly, and provide the game engine easy checks based on already accounted for mechanics

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That's certainly interesting. Although it would mean that the British CLs that have dual-purpose main battery guns would only get one firing per attack. 

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On 3/19/2018 at 3:36 PM, Thorthemighty said:

That's certainly interesting. Although it would mean that the British CLs that have dual-purpose main battery guns would only get one firing per attack. 

I have no idea what you mean by "one firing per attack"
There are only 2 RN CLs that have dual purpose main guns, the Neptune and Minotaur. (Technically the Black Swan too should have her main guns be DP, but in game they are not, but it's T1 so who cares)
If they are not firing their guns, their AA remains the same as it is now, if they fire, those dual purpose guns are removed from the AA aura until they are reloaded. There AA aura reverts to full strength until they fire their main guns again.

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