Thoughts on a regular gaming night: Blowouts, destroyers, and gud botes

[DingBat]

On Wednesdays, She Who Must Be Obeyed is out of the house and I have some time for blowing stuffs up. It was an interesting, and good, night last night and I had a few idle thoughts about some of the aspects of the game. 

 

Details:

Games played: 9

Wins: 7

Ships played: Anshan, Maass, Blys x 2 (2 wins), Kagero x 3 (2 losses, 1 win), Udaloi, Akizuki

 

As I said, a good night. I had 4 games > 100k damage. Those games were in the Maass, Blys, Kagero, and Akizuki. Worst game was 10k damage in a Kagero. Of course, that was the win. 

 

On "Blowouts"

Let's say, just for the sake of this post, that blowouts are any game where you win by 5 or more ships. Last night, I had 5 such games. Fortunately, I was on the winning side for 4 of them. Strangely, the loss was a 100k+ game in my Kagero. 

 

In my limited view while playing, the blowouts were due to "large scale" stuff, not tactics. I mean, I can't point out any specific instances of potato play. What I can point out is large scale issues such as:

 

• Extreme passivity on the part of team battleships
• Poor destroyer risk/reward play
• Really bad planning

 

For example, the blowout that we lost was on North. In that particular example, one of our battleships convinced a third of the team that steaming around the 9-10 line was a winning strategy. Their entire team proceeded to beat up on the remaining 2/3s that stayed in the middle. 

 

There were a couple of follow ups to this. 

 

I was initially a little uncomfortable about putting this in the post but then I decided to go ahead anyway. I'm not normally one to make a big deal about poorer players. After all, I need targets. And as I said in another post yesterday "Don't tap on the aquarium". Anyway, after the battle, I checked on the battleship player. He was a solid red, 46% win rate, poor damage, etc, etc. A definite "fail your way to the top" player. This player was QUITE vocal in chat about the best way to win this map. So, this speaks to a couple of things. First: be realistic about your abilities. I completely agree that skill should have nothing to do with your enjoyment of this game and that no, in the end, it IS just a game. However, if you've lost more games than you've won and do less damage than most players 2-3 tiers below you then you really need to ask yourself if you should be trying to form team strategy in a match. 

 

Second. Look, guys, there's no kind way to say this: Any route to the enemy that involves excessive travel and puts you in a place where you will have trouble finding and attacking targets is a REALLY STUPID IDEA. If you're in a slow ship, then it becomes an INCREDIBLY STUPID IDEA. Don't be stupid. 'nuff said. 

 

There was one other factor that I think contributes to blowouts, but more on that later. 

 

Destroyers. Destroyers everywhere!

I did not have a single game last night that had fewer than 4 destroyers per side. Not one. 

 

And after last night my main conclusion is: There are some really bad destroyer players out there. 

 

And this contributes to blowouts. When you have a team with 4-5 destroyers and 3-4 of them are dead in the first orgasm of cap rushing, it's pretty hard to recover. Especially when the odds say that the destroyer captains that survived on the enemy team are the GOOD destroyer captains. 

 

Some random thoughts:

1. If you're a destroyer captain in a match with that many dd's per side and you head off to a cap alone, you deserve whatever happens

2. You don't HAVE to die on a cap in the first few minutes. If the enemy has more ships, or is better positioned, then run. Ships have rudders for a reason.

3. Good cruiser and battleship players don't freeze up in the presence of so many dd's. They realize that their dd's need support regardless.

 

I can see why a lot of people complain about blowouts. I think, as a DD main, I can usually see the point where an even match collapses into a blowout. As a BB main I think distance makes it harder to see that happening and, as a result, there can often be a lot of "Where did my team go?" shock moments, with the accompanying disillusionment. I think even good BB players would be extremely frustrated in that situation.

 

Gud botes

Some thoughts on the boats I'm playing recently. 

 

Anshan

Love this boat. Maybe it's not Gremmy love, but it's still there. Speed. Good guns. Usable torps. It warms me in a special place to citadel cruisers in a destroyer, so that's bonus. I've decided to start working on a pan-asian captain, so I'll be playing this one for a while. 

 

Udaloi

Where have you been all my life, darling? I'm almost preferring this to the Khab. Sure, not as many pew-pews, but the torps are wonderful. Plus, same speed and great handling. If the Groz is better than this I have happy days ahead. 

 

Akizuki

I struggled with this one in my first couple of games but now I think I've got her. I like the skill level required for great games in this thing. She's slow, so it's a bad place to be without smoke and a lot of enemy nearby. On the other hand, smoke popped at the right time means a "mad minute" of fire that causes even the toughest enemy captain to turn and run. She can beat up on most destroyers at her tier and higher. Fun ship.

 

Maass

This is one boat I need help with, so if anyone has tips, please share. 

 

Good

- Torps are great. 

 

Not so good

- Guns are underwhelming

- Spotting range is not great

- Speed is ok

- Handling is ok

 

And I'm not really sure about the AP. I try using the AP in the same situations as I would with Russian boats but the results are underwhelming. I'm pretty much sticking with HE these days, but I can't seem to go toe to toe with other destroyers at my own tier. Thoughts?

 

Anyway, that was Wednesday night. 

 

 

 

 

[Cobraclutch]

6 minutes ago, DingBat said:

 

Maass

This is one boat I need help with, so if anyone has tips, please share. 

 

Good

- Torps are great. 

 

Not so good

- Guns are underwhelming

- Spotting range is not great

- Speed is ok

- Handling is ok

 

And I'm not really sure about the AP. I try using the AP in the same situations as I would with Russian boats but the results are underwhelming. I'm pretty much sticking with HE these days, but I can't seem to go toe to toe with other destroyers at my own tier. Thoughts?

 

Anyway, that was Wednesday night. 

 

 

 

 

Yes the guns are quite underwhelming. 

 

But what makes up for that is the ability to use hydro as a DD at tier 7. 

 

Go into a cap situation, where you will do the standard face check / smoke dance with red DD's. 

 

Force them to blow smoke, then approach into hydro range and profit. 

 

The rest is pretty standard stuff, try to use your superior HP to bully targets into using smoke, one you have done that you have basically won. Abuse their smoke and hydro them up. 

 

Use torpedoes on quick reload to cycle dots and fire damage.  I try not to use the guns that much in the open though, and I try to keep the smoke saved for DD encounters so i can abuse that with hydro. 

 

Try to use the speed boost mod  or Hydro mod, i prefer speed boost but both are very good options. 

[DingBat]

Thanks Cobra. To be honest, I think I've effectively used the hydro once in all my games so far. I hadn't really thought about making that the focal point for the boat. I'll try this.

[Stauffenberg44]

Ok look Ma it's part of a dying breed--a real life DD-man.

12 minutes ago, DingBat said:

In my limited view while playing, the blowouts were due to "large scale" stuff, not tactics. I mean, I can't point out any specific instances of potato play. What I can point out is large scale issues such as:

 

• Extreme passivity on the part of team battleships
• Poor destroyer risk/reward play
• Really bad planning

Agree completely, and you can usually spot a team fail within the first 2 mins: BBs stay way back and do their fish school thing; DDs traipse around, who cares about contesting caps or spotting?; enemy team grabs most or all of the caps straight off.

Good post +1.

[Cobraclutch]

10 minutes ago, DingBat said:

Thanks Cobra. To be honest, I think I've effectively used the hydro once in all my games so far. I hadn't really thought about making that the focal point for the boat. I'll try this.

Another thing I should of mentioned, and i am not 100% sure on..

 

Do the 150's now increase the smoke firing bloom more then the 127's? 

 

When I played her, the 150's where what I went with 100% of the time.. but there was no smoke firing bloom. If they now increase your smoke firing bloom to a higher degree, you will most like want to keep with the 127's.

 

 

[DingBat]

1 minute ago, Cobraclutch said:

Another thing I should of mentioned, and i am not 100% sure on..

 

Do the 150's now increase the smoke firing bloom more then the 127's? 

 

When I played her, the 150's where what I went with 100% of the time.. but there was no smoke firing bloom. If they now increase your smoke firing bloom to a higher degree, you will most like want to keep with the 127's.

 

 

I'm using the 127s as I prefer faster rate of fire to alpha. Still not sure if that's the right thing or not for this boat. 

[Cobraclutch]

Just now, DingBat said:

I'm using the 127s as I prefer faster rate of fire to alpha. Still not sure if that's the right thing or not for this boat. 

It's really a matter of preference. 

 

Both guns have their strength and weaknesses. There is no clear progression from one to the other. 

 

If you enjoy the 127's. Stick with them, once you get to tier 9 that is all what is left. 

 

Now if only we could get the Spähkreuzer with the 6  150mm's and 10 torpedoes as a premium!! that would be epic :P 

[Bill_Halsey]

33 minutes ago, DingBat said:

3. Good cruiser and battleship players don't freeze up in the presence of so many dd's. They realize that their dd's need support regardless.

A good cruiser captain should see DD's as a priority target. The issue is to be within supporting distance of a dd pushing into a cap. I define that being 3-5 km behind the dd in the first minutes. Close enough to provide immediate support and far enough not to be picked up before the dd. What does annoy me are dd players whose idea of support for them is to have a bigger ship in front of them. 

[DingBat]

4 minutes ago, Bill_Halsey said:

A good cruiser captain should see DD's as a priority target. The issue is to be within supporting distance of a dd pushing into a cap. I define that being 3-5 km behind the dd in the first minutes. Close enough to provide immediate support and far enough not to be picked up before the dd. What does annoy me are dd players whose idea of support for them is to have a bigger ship in front of them. 

 

I admit I'm not always the best at smoking teammates, but it's something I'm working on. The one problem I'm finding is that I'm running a lot of gunboats these days that aren't always the best cap challengers. 

[Wulfgarn]

Good suggestions. 

[HazardDrake]

I do better in the Udaloi than the Khab. Like the Khab better though. 

 

Groz, run full stealth build with RPF. Fit torpedo reload module, AA module, def AA, and let hilarity ensue. 

[kerensky914]

1 hour ago, DingBat said:

I was initially a little uncomfortable about putting this in the post but then I decided to go ahead anyway. I'm not normally one to make a big deal about poorer players. After all, I need targets. And as I said in another post yesterday "Don't tap on the aquarium". Anyway, after the battle, I checked on the battleship player. He was a solid red, 46% win rate, poor damage, etc, etc. A definite "fail your way to the top" player. This player was QUITE vocal in chat about the best way to win this map. So, this speaks to a couple of things. First: be realistic about your abilities. I completely agree that skill should have nothing to do with your enjoyment of this game and that no, in the end, it IS just a game. However, if you've lost more games than you've won and do less damage than most players 2-3 tiers below you then you really need to ask yourself if you should be trying to form team strategy in a match. 

Second. Look, guys, there's no kind way to say this: Any route to the enemy that involves excessive travel and puts you in a place where you will have trouble finding and attacking targets is a REALLY STUPID IDEA. If you're in a slow ship, then it becomes an INCREDIBLY STUPID IDEA. Don't be stupid. 'nuff said.

Most of the time, the guys squawking the loudest about what *should* be done are the ones you do not want to be listening to.  I'm not much better than that guy stat-wise - BB main, fairly solidly 49% win rate, tho my average damage/xp rate has gotten a lot better.  But you generally won't catch me suggesting "strategy" like that moron.

Especially in a slow BB, I would rather stick close to the map center.  Sure I die more often, but I figure if it takes me awhile to go down and I manage to take some of the reds with me, I've done more good than harm to my team.  Even so, if the lemming train is headed for the map edge, I'm not gonna wander into B by myself and get 12-to-1'd to death. ;)

[Reymu]

2 hours ago, DingBat said:

Maass

This is one boat I need help with, so if anyone has tips, please share. 

 

Good

- Torps are great. 

 

Not so good

- Guns are underwhelming

- Spotting range is not great

- Speed is ok

- Handling is ok

 

And I'm not really sure about the AP. I try using the AP in the same situations as I would with Russian boats but the results are underwhelming. I'm pretty much sticking with HE these days, but I can't seem to go toe to toe with other destroyers at my own tier. Thoughts?

 

Anyway, that was Wednesday night. 

Maas's AP won't cut it except vs. broadside cruisers within 7km and BBs' superstructure at any range. I generally stick to only HE vs. other DDs; only Kiev is large enough to get consistent hits with AP if he stays broadside, and even cruiser 203mm AP can bounce off DD armor.

 

I otherwise play her like a torp boat, not gun boat. She can bully, but not for long. Also, if dueling a DD and he's letting you get close, keep one torp salvo in reserve for him. I generally survive DD duels more or at least take the red with me if I have those citadel blows.

 

Mixed results using smoke to hide from DD and then hydro. It'll make evading torps easier, but unless other DD smokes, hydro-ambush is pointless--and especially if he has backup. Instead of blindfiring torps into smoke, I get close, pop hydro, and fire the torps if they'll have a chance of hitting him.