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_Fantomex_

I felt like throwing up

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Not sure how much coverage this port will get, given the time of it's posting.

 

As you can see in my signature, I'm an XO for the clan Quality Potatoes [-QP-]. As of last night, we are one of only ten clans in Typhoon League on the NA server. We are relatively unknown (afaik), but we were... are able to fight against the best clans on the server and come out on top, or at the very least, not give them an easy win. Unfortunately, our clan isn't made of solid unicums. We aren't SALTY or Kraken or OPG, and as such, we have started encountering... difficulties in our matches in CB.

Getting to Typhoon, no offence to any of the teams we fought against, was relatively easy. We decided that we could run two teams once we were in Typhoon to allow all 30+ members of -QP- to have a chance at getting the CB reward missions complete, but we failed miserably, losing several matches in a row, and almost dropping out of Typhoon.

 

We realized that we simply can't risk running a non-ideal team comprised of not our most skilled members, cause we would pretty much immediately lose. That being said, running only our ideal team, our "A-Team" so-to-speak, denies the majority of our clan the chance at getting rewards, while running everyone denies all of us the chance at rewards, or at most, makes it a very un-fun grind to the 30 wins in Typhoon.

 

As a result, the leadership of -QP-, including myself, has had to make the vomit-inducing decision of restricting who in our clan can play Clan Battles, at least until our A-Team can establish a large enough foothold and point-buffer in Typhoon to allow for a loss streak when we eventually allow all our members to participate in Typhoon again. 

 

No one is happy with this decision, not even those of us who are on the "A-Team".

 

We have allowed our non-"A-Team" members into our second clan to allow them to play as they want in CB until our primary team gets ahead, but it's still a crappy setup. The idea of individual missions and rewards for a team based competitive format is, quite frankly, IMO, stupid. I do understand WG's point of view here; reducing "freeloaders", reducing the monetary loss from distributing rewards to hundreds of players, making the final rewards actually "elite" in nature. I do understand; but it also leads to decisions like this. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution.

 

I'm sure we aren't the only clan faced with this decision, and I'm sure those clans who don't have this problem are laughing at us, while the casual clans are wondering why we have a stick up our butts.

 

 

 

 

Who am I to decide who can and cannot get the rewards?

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CB is competitive and as such calls for your clans best members. Making a spot on your clan’s A-Team can act as an incentive for them to strive and improve to make the cut later

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I agree with both MeGrim and HEspam. Yes it is competitve and it should be your better players, but there are also some pretty big flaws in the mode, (excluding an entire class..). Personally I feel like this game mode was rushed into the game too quickly and needs to be looked at more closely.

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You have to decide what you want out of CB.

 

Do you want to simply "have fun" in a competitive format?

Do you want to be top of the leaderboards?

Do you want your Stalinhammer?

 

Unfortunately, for most clans, you can't have all three. It's critical that you communicate with your clan members and determine what your goals are. Otherwise, you'll likely have a lot of very discontent or disappointed people. 

 

Good luck out there!

Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT
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2 minutes ago, _Fantomex_ said:

 

Who am I to decide who can and cannot get the rewards?

 

Clan leadership.

 

Whether you're choosing who will play, distributing bulk rewards, or settling for dominating a lower league so everyone can participate, you'll have to make tough calls.

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This is happening to every clan where membership isn't contingent on skill. You're just going to have to wait a while. Eventually, more clans will reach Typhoon. Our primary was 8th into Typhoon. It's tough. We don't accept anyone outside our sekrit club.

 

The biggest problem I have is training. You cannot train people for CW meta without playing CW. But if your clan is good enough to move on, the less skilled members can't go back and play CW at their appropriate skill level. The only way they can practice is by hurting the clan and queueing against clans they can't deal with.

Edited by awildseaking

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It will be difficult. My clan can only field one team, and even then, it is a challenge. We're there to have fun, and get Stalingrad. We're not the best, we know that, but we can still get wins. Only the best of the best right now are in Typhoon.

 

Give it some time, and the skill will equalize.

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12 minutes ago, FireAndHEspam said:

CB is competitive and as such calls for your clans best members. Making a spot on your clan’s A-Team can act as an incentive for them to strive and improve to make the cut later

 

This.

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Even though the SW (Sea Wolves) is only Gale league we have 12 regular players and have the same issue with our "A" group.

Kombat_Wombat has stated the case clearly above---You have to decide what you want.

We as a Clan want our members to participate and gain rewards and have fun, even if we do not climb. We want to climb, but I feel we want to have fun.

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There seems to be a polar divide between the mentality of some players; those who have fun while playing, and those who have fun when winning.

 

Those who have fun while winning are the competitive minded players, and inherently, the better skilled players. So what ends up happening is you have some players on your team who play for fun, and players who have fun when winning, and they clash.

 

The "play for fun" group doesn't understand why the "fun while winning" group is getting angry or why they aren't allowed to play. If you cater to one group, the other gets unhappy. I wish there was a way to divide your clan into teams that fight at different levels with separate ratings. Which is kind of what we went for with a second clan, but then you have a "us vs. them" mentality form, which is never good, and can lead to clan fallouts.

 

I just hope this decision doesn't send our entire clan to an early demise.

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An award not earned has no value as an award.

Nobody is happy to move up and get a higher medal in a competition because the winner was disqualified for violating a minor rule that had nothing to do with the competition.  It's a hollow victory, an undeserved reward.

Give your clan members more credit for understanding that if they want the rewards, they will have to play well enough to be allowed to compete as a second team.  If they complain about it and get over it, focusing on being good enough to earn the rewards, you are in great shape.  If they complain and whine about it without any effort to improve the situation, you know what to do - remove them from the clan or give up your role as Commander to someone who can do it.  Or just give in and ask the good players to not quit for a better clan because you felt like throwing up.

Either you are the Commander, or you are not - there is no middle ground.  Make the decisions fairly and stick to them if you want your clans respect.

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If it makes you feel any better, pretty much all friendly gaming groups encounter this when they decide to get serious.

I was the guild and raid leader for a friendly, all-welcoming guild in WoW back in the day, and we had a very clear split between /good/ players and players that showed up to most of the time pay attention, sort of, and get loot. During one expansion the guild made the choice to compete for server firsts in the new content, which meant fielding a raid of only our best players while the sub-par players had their own raid team. 

We got a lot of server firsts and for a time had some of the best geared/ranked players on the server, but while the pros were rocking Hard Mode raids and special achievements for their raid mounts, the other raid team could barely half-clear a normal difficulty raid because they had no one to carry them. No one on the pro team wanted to stop being awesome (myself included) to merge with the other team, and no one on the other team was content to see the guild get server-firsts they weren't a part of, even if they benefited in the long run.

Bottom line... mixing good players and meh to bad players only works when no one cares if they win or not. As soon as you care about winning, the cream floats to the top and doesn't want to mix back in again, and if you try to make them some (if not all) are going to abandon ship to a guild/clan that is going to allow them to challenge themselves and succeed at the level they deserve to succeed at.

Good luck. I know it's a tough call but if the clan wants to rank out, it's the call you have to make. 

Edited by TTK_Aegis
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At least y'all get to play. My entire clan hasn't been able to get one battle in due to real life commitments like work, family, and being asleep due to time zones.

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Doubloons is your answer.

Create multiple sub-clans with doubloons and let them have their fun while you climb up the ladder.

QP - The A team that wants Stalingrad

QP1 - The team that wants to win but doesn't worry if lost.

QP2 - Team just wants to play, win, loss doesn't matter.

QP3 - Team doesn't want to play CB.

That way your A-Team gets Stalingrad and your non A team gets usual clan rewards.

If you stick together, none of you will get Stalingrad.

(And disband the sub clans after CB season is over if you want)

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1 minute ago, Kitsunelegend said:

At least y'all get to play. My entire clan hasn't been able to get one battle in due to real life commitments like work, family, and being asleep due to time zones.

Likewise for many of our best West Coast players, both US and Canadian.  We have made every appeal possible in the thread dedicated to this subject.  An extra hour or two longer would allow them to take part on the Weds/Thurs events.  

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Its a tough call for sure and I'm glad I don't have to make calls like that. On the other hand clans with sub clan may face other difficulties if they end up facing one another.

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3 minutes ago, Kevik70 said:

Its a tough call for sure and I'm glad I don't have to make calls like that. On the other hand clans with sub clan may face other difficulties if they end up facing one another.

No difficulties I think. Their A-Team will defeat the non A-team.

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Just now, zuga_01 said:

No difficulties I think. Their A-Team will defeat the non A-team.

Sucks to be the other guys :Smile_teethhappy:

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8 minutes ago, Kitsunelegend said:

At least y'all get to play. My entire clan hasn't been able to get one battle in due to real life commitments like work, family, and being asleep due to time zones.

Isn't CBs the reason you created your clan? I remember your post where you asked if people would join your clan if you had created one.

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2 minutes ago, zuga_01 said:

No difficulties I think. Their A-Team will defeat the non A-team.

I think the difficulties include, not wanting to face one another.

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Just now, Kevik70 said:

I think the difficulties include, not wanting to face one another.

Can confirm, TSF-33 repeatedly beating the crap out of TSF-11 in last SL season led to Special Forces getting a new competitive team

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3 minutes ago, _Fantomex_ said:

Sucks to be the other guys :Smile_teethhappy:

 

1 minute ago, Kevik70 said:

I think the difficulties include, not wanting to face one another.

Why whats the problem? The Non A team is not getting the Stalingrad anyway.

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2 minutes ago, _Fantomex_ said:

Can confirm, TSF-33 repeatedly beating the crap out of TSF-11 in last SL season led to Special Forces getting a new competitive team

We don't even like facing each other in pubbies if we can help it, though sometimes it still happens. (Rip other team when we end up together.)

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This is what it is to be a clan leader. You EARN your benefits. 

 

I was in both Forge and Otter on WoT. I was about middle of the pack when it came to skill, but honestly, I wasn't the best CW player (too aggressive). As a result, I was definitely not picked for the really important battles against the top clans. Fortunately, in WoT there were enough battles against second tier clans to keep players like me busy. 

 

Did I resent it? Not really. So long as you are honest with your members, and don't deviate from your stated principles for reasons of favoritism or anything else then I suspect you won't have too many issue. 

 

You have to decide if you want to be buddies or if you want to win. You may find a way to be both, but you also may not. Decide what's important to your clan and don't feel guilty about it.

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