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Madwolf05

Is it time to balance the game outside of BBs?

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I think it's becoming more and more apparent that Battleship drivers are going to do whatever they like in this game. No matter how much they've been catered too. No matter how much War Gaming has buffed them, nerfed Cruisers, Destroyers, and Carriers, there is no forcing Battleship players to engage in objective play, or team work. As the amount of Battleships has increased, game play has gotten worse and worse. A ship so essential to winning the game cannot be catered too if the meta of that ship so strongly encourages this type of behavior is not good to the game. It's time to restore the balance and let other ships have a greater impact on the outcomes of the games by supporting their team mates and working together.

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I actually provided a rewards strategy that would force BB players to play to the objectives.

 

I don't know how in a WW2 naval game you get around an overweighting of battleships so long as you allow the players to play whatever they like.

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1 minute ago, TheDreadnought said:

I actually provided a rewards strategy that would force BB players to play to the objectives.

 

I don't know how in a WW2 naval game you get around an overweighting of battleships so long as you allow the players to play whatever they like.

Simple. You make torps actually dangerous and hard to spot again. 

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@Madwolf05 I agree, it almost feels as though sometimes no matter how well cruisers and dds play it just never seems to matter. I do think that battleships are too strong and too influencing on the meta and how games play out right now, simply because the fact that someone can sit at range and miss shots left and right (metaphorical and literal) and not play the objective and still somehow be a help to the team is appalling. Its almost so bad right now, that I have thought about what it would be like if WG put a cap on the number of battleships that can be put in one match....

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Is the OP implying that other classes dont have a great amount of impact on the game? DDs and CVs already have significantly more impact on winning games  as well as arguably cruisers plus BBs are probably the worst class at playing objectives other than CVs. 

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1 minute ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Is the OP implying that other classes dont have a great amount of impact on the game? DDs and CVs already have significantly more impact on winning games  as well as arguably cruisers plus BBs are probably the worst class at playing objectives other than CVs. 

The problem is their impact is dependent upon BBs. Win the DD meta? You hold caps and spot so your BB can win the game. Bad BB play invalidates a DD advantage. Win the CA meta? That's almost impossible without BB and the whole point of taking out CA is to let BB fight among themselves? CV? Just lol.

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15 minutes ago, hexeris said:

Just limit the number of BB's in a game like they did with CV's, 3 max. maybe even 2.

No.  If you limit BBs to 2, there wouldn't be much of a reason to play any torp boats.  

 

Speaking on the subject, BB's are suppose to make up roughly 35% of the fleet as per WG's numbers.  IIRC they are currently at ~42%.  Not off by that much.  

Edited by XpliCT_PaiiN
ninja'd %'s, found the original post

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1 minute ago, awildseaking said:

The problem is their impact is dependent upon BBs. Win the DD meta? You hold caps and spot so your BB can win the game. Bad BB play invalidates a DD advantage. Win the CA meta? That's almost impossible without BB and the whole point of taking out CA is to let BB fight among themselves? CV? Just lol.

 

Sorry I must have lost my way and ended up in a different game forum, can someone point me back to the world of warships forum? 

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Why don't we just realize that game design makes BBs too influential and all the nerfs to torpedoes and IJN DDs causes huge problems? 

 

IJN torp detection down to 1.4km. Give them back some better guns. 

Raise citadel on UK BBs. No need for 2 lines of citadel immunity. 

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9 minutes ago, hexeris said:

Just limit the number of BB's in a game like they did with CV's, 3 max. maybe even 2.

As a cruiser "main", please no. 

 

Matches with more cruisers than any other class are even worse than 5+ BB's per team. It's fun to farm BB's, it's not fun having your cruiser burn to death from four fires.

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MM allows too many of them per match. It's like playing chess with 6 queens per side then wondering why the other pieces aren't as used. BBs are perfectly manageable as they are now if the MM capped the BBs per side at 3 instead of the current 5. There are so many right now there is no place for lighter ships to take cover. The BBs start spread across the map, If you get spotted by any allied ship, a BB that wasn't itself spotted can nail you with a devastating strike and you have no chance of seeing it coming. 

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Interesting perspective... in my experience it seems that CV and DD play have the greatest impact on most matches. On a losing streak I hop in my flether as I feel I can carry hardest with that ship.

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I don't consider myself a main anything but from my BB play I'll just say this. If you expect more "team work" from BBs then the CAs and DDs shouldn't cut and run at the first shell fired at them. Being left hanging in the breeze without the CA ROF to deal with DDs or their AA to deal with air attacks; without DDs to move forward and spot targets that are otherwise invisible to the BB all means that the rest of you have condemned that team mate to a slow death.

The rest of you want support from the BBs then that's exactly what you need to give to them. Otherwise don't expect any BB driver to be sticking out their necks only to get it cut off.

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Just now, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

 

Sorry I must have lost my way and ended up in a different game forum, can someone point me back to the world of warships forum? 

Just saying that BB occupies the role of primary damage dealer. They impact the game the most. Everyone else is just trying to enable their BB to succeed.

 

There's a reason they have higher WR.

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2 minutes ago, CrazyHorse_Denver said:

I don't consider myself a main anything but from my BB play I'll just say this. If you expect more "team work" from BBs then the CAs and DDs shouldn't cut and run at the first shell fired at them. Being left hanging in the breeze without the CA ROF to deal with DDs or their AA to deal with air attacks; without DDs to move forward and spot targets that are otherwise invisible to the BB all means that the rest of you have condemned that team mate to a slow death.

The rest of you want support from the BBs then that's exactly what you need to give to them. Otherwise don't expect any BB driver to be sticking out their necks only to get it cut off.

CA/CLs and DDs have to cut an run if the enemy BBs aren't silenced or at least distracted. To quote a famous admiral 

Spoiler

Image result for meme our cruisers can't repel firepower of that magnitude

 

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My vote would be to leave in-game balance alone, and encourage people to play more of other classes through tweaking economic factors further.

Make cruisers the go-to for people to grind credits and XP and they may get an uptick in popularity, once you have 5 cruisers and only 4 battleships in a game instead of the reverse it's generally more pleasant for the cruisers.

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3 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

Just saying that BB occupies the role of primary damage dealer. They impact the game the most. Everyone else is just trying to enable their BB to succeed.

 

There's a reason they have higher WR.

I'm sorry, we must be playing different games.  BB's definitely do not have the largest impact on the game.  DD's have a FAR greater impact on a team winning and losing than a BB does.  Capping, contesting and harassing are what wins games, not raw damage.  DD's are far greater than any other ship in the game at doing those things.   

CV's do, on average, more damage than every BB at their tier, with the exception of the conqueror.  

Finally, you do realize that the WR across ships will ALWAYS equalize at nearly 50%?  MM tries to balance the game so each side has the same number of ships.  This means for every match, you have an equal, or very close, number of BB's, CA's and DD's per side.  This means that each side has lets say 5 BBs that win, and 5 BBs that lose.  Which equals a 50% overall WR.  

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2 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

CA/CLs and DDs have to cut an run if the enemy BBs aren't silenced or at least distracted. To quote a famous admiral 

  Reveal hidden contents

Image result for meme our cruisers can't repel firepower of that magnitude

 

So we've come full circle without coming any closer to a solution. The CAs and DDs won't or can't move forward without BB support and the BBs don't move forward without CA and DD support. At some point everyone has to grow a pair and stop worrying about survival stats and start doing their jobs.

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8 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

Just saying that BB occupies the role of primary damage dealer. They impact the game the most. Everyone else is just trying to enable their BB to succeed.

 

There's a reason they have higher WR.

Sort of. BBs have a higher WR because they have higher survivability. That allows them to last longer and consistently inflict damage by surviving longer. The highest impact on the game is actually DDs because they provide spotting and can generate the most points by doing that and taking caps. If both teams start with only 5 DDs and 5 BBs. One team loses all its BBs and the other loses all its DDs. Guess which team will almost always win. *Hint* - it's not the BBs.

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3 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

Just saying that BB occupies the role of primary damage dealer. They impact the game the most. Everyone else is just trying to enable their BB to succeed.

 

There's a reason they have higher WR.

Again I feel like we are talking about two different games, damage dealing is a rather low impact style of winning to have as much impact on a game as you claim a BB would have do deal significantly more than any BBs averages depending on damage to win. 

 

Do BBs have a higher win rate? Could you provide some examples, because I am having trouble finding evidence that supports your claim.

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Just now, CrazyHorse_Denver said:

So we've come full circle without coming any closer to a solution. The CAs and DDs won't or can't move forward without BB support and the BBs don't move forward without CA and DD support. At some point everyone has to grow a pair and stop worrying about survival stats and start doing their jobs.

Agreed ... mostly. The BBs have to take on the enemy BBs first unless there is an allied carrier to do it, the CA/CLs and DDs can then screen the BBs and take out the enemy CA/CLs , planes, and DDs. Survival does matter though. It's not a matter of surviving for the sake of stats stats, it's a matter of surviving long enough to do your job and secure the win. 

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3 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Do BBs have a higher win rate? Could you provide some examples, because I am having trouble finding evidence that supports your claim.

Given that MM is mostly successful in balancing the numbers of ship types per side it seems unlikely that on aggregate any type could deviate strongly away from 50%.

Only if you end up with 5 BB vs. 4 BB say will there be any ability for the stats to skew (the BB WR in that game will then be either 55% or 45%).

I think he'll struggle.

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BB's target BB's first? They will always target CA's/CL's first because they are easy kills. They introduced a BB whose main target is BB's and boy did the howls start.

As I said, just limit the number of BB's per team.

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