mykil

Grab your PoPcoRN, Radar, Yes or No? Did it Ruin the Game?

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Did Radar Ruin World of Warships?   68 members have voted

  1. 1. Did Radar Ruin World of Warships?

    • Yes, it completely Ruins Warships!
    • Yes, it needs to be fixed!
    • No, it is good the way it is!

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91 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I have been summoned.

Hydroacroustic Search seems to have been added in 0.4.0 (Open Beta) that dropped towards the end of June 2015.  I can find no reference of it until that time.

Yah i did more digging myself and found this thread from just before OBT started on the EU server.

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/22134-hydroacoustic-search-needs-a-bit-of-text-tweak/

Since OBT started on July 13th 2015 and this was posted three days before, that says to me hydro was in during Closed Beta. Late in CBT but still in CBT.


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3 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Yah i did more digging myself and found this thread from just before OBT started on the EU server.

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/22134-hydroacoustic-search-needs-a-bit-of-text-tweak/

Since OBT started on July 13th 2015 and this was posted three days before, that says to me hydro was in during Closed Beta. Late in CBT but still in CBT.

I believe that was leaked or test-server data -- not from the live client.  I just went over all of the patch notes, including the changes that Wargaming themselves didn't list, and Hydro does not get mentioned until 0.4.0 in the notes.

-Edit-  If you look up 0.4.0, you can see there was a "test" client that people could try beforehand, which is why there was information about it prior to it finally dropping.

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse

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2 hours ago, Umikami said:

Also, many players who have commented on Moskva re-iterate that she truly handles like a battleship (hence the nickname), but lets look at that. Moskva has half a Khab on each side for secondaries (2 twin 130 mounts per side), with base firing ranges of 6.5K  and an ROF of 15 shots per minute. Again, with skills and mods that 6.5 K range can be pushed out to 9.3 K. That means that out to ranges of 9.3 K, Moskva's secondaries outgun a Shimy (and by a significant margin).

They are secondary guns...they have terrible accuracy, and the Shima was outside that range, and ducked behind islands. So no help there. Not to mention that the ship was spotted for 25s. 

 

2 hours ago, Umikami said:

And I have to say that I really love this one, and that it is a perfect example of how badly IJN DD's have been nerf-batted. When Fujin (the original Kami sister) was first introduced it was a "MEH" boat as it had almost exactly the same characteristics as Minikaze; Minikaze was faster and Fujin had a quicker rotation on her turrets. The only reason any of the Kami sisters are considered OP is because the rest of the IJN DD line has been nerfed to whatever it is now, which from the Forum comments I read is mostly frustrating.

This doesn't have any bearing on the fact that the Kamikaze sisters are OP. The Minekaze was also OP, snd they have since toned her down to an appropriate level. Most of the IJN destroyers are just fine. I have had no issues playing them, and I can't see why people have such a problem.

 

 

2 hours ago, Umikami said:

No, DD's do not run wild at lower tiers.

That is your opinion. Considering the T4 clubbing ship of choice is the Clemson, considering that the T5 clubbing ship is Kamikaze, considering ships like Podvoisky zip around the battlefield at break neck speeds making it difficult to hit. The Minekaze is still powerful, the Mutsuki is too, despite her reputation. 

 

2 hours ago, Umikami said:

But back to the topic at hand; so River is contesting a cap against a stealthy DD (is there any other kind?) which she overpowers in almost every way, and she knows exactly where it is at, and she is helpless.

Yeah, I'm out!

I don't know how many other ways to explain this.

 

The Shima is stealthed and is not seen, River is the closest target, but has gunnery support. Radar goes up, the Shima is spotted, Shima begins evasion. River's guns rotate, only 25s to shoot two salvos, Shima ducks behind the island, out of secondary range, an unable to be shot. Torpedoes were launched, she doesn't have time to eveade and takes some. 

 

In this whole scenario, without radar, River is blind, and is a sitting duck. Radar allowed her to gain an equal shooting with the enemy, and due to circumstances, was unable to capitalize on it. Not her fault, but the Shima was smart. He made the most of his time and he was able to outplay the enemy. River overpowers the DD yes, but that requires vision of the target, without radar, she doesn't have that. And thus, the Shima had a clear advantage. The Shima could just sit at range, plink away with torpedoes with impunity, while River can do nothing but attempt to dodge.

 

Another scenario. Allied Gearing is capping right up against an island. Gets radared by a Des Moines, does nothing because he can't be shot at. Radar fades and does nothing because the DD player was positioned smartly and well.

 

 

You can know exactly where a ship is, but be able to do nothing about it. If you can't shoot the ship, what good is it whether it is spotted or not?

 

 

And I am still waiting for the answer to River and I's question. You said there are a thousand ways to win against a DD without radar, we still would like to hear about how to win this scenario without radar. 

 

 

You know...it's pointless to really continue this argument. We're not agreeing and are not gonna change what we believe on this. I shall end myself here. If you wish to reply to this one it's fine. But I am simply gonna end it for me.

 

Fair winds and following seas! :Smile_honoring:

Edited by Doomlock

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47 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I believe that was leaked or test-server data -- not from the live client.  I just went over all of the patch notes, including the changes that Wargaming themselves didn't list, and Hydro does not get mentioned until 0.4.0 in the notes.

-Edit-  If you look up 0.4.0, you can see there was a "test" client that people could try beforehand, which is why there was information about it prior to it finally dropping.

Yah but if you look at this.

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/updates/patchnotes-040/

The patch was released during CBT. Also if you look at the changelogs on the wiki the next major patch 0.4.1 (during OBT);

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Update_0.4.1

It says how the duration was increased, this to me says that it was in the game for some time.With the patch being less then two months after OBT started I find it highly unlikely that this wasn't started in CBT.

Also in 0.4.0.4 hydro was added to the stock tier IV cruisers.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Update_0.4.0.4

This once again implies that hydro had been in testing for some time.

Also one last point 0.4.0 where Hydro was introduced is the CBT according to the changelogs.

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/updates/patchnotes-040/

The patch dropped June 26th 2015 and OBT started July 13 2015.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Changelogs_for_World_of_Warships

Therefore Hydro was in CBT, true it was at the end of CBT but it was still in CBT despite @Umikami's claims otherwise.

This point is further reinforced due to the fact the special reward mentioned was announced after the patch on July 10th.

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/cbt-rewards/


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The x-ray vision through landmass bit is still annoying to me but as a hard counter to smoke its not intolerable.  Perhaps it has too many charges but meh.

The recent detection changes to smoke have done more damage to DD team support than the limited bursts of radar ever did...


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Its a brainless, overused "i win" button. You can already see the writing on the wall-- when WG wants to sell something, give it radar.


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Why is hydro being talked about?  It seems to be working rather well and fair for all...NO SUPER POWERS!

Superman~vision / Radar simply is not!  Who cares about CBT, OBT shima this and that...NO other skill/ability enables you to SEE THROUGH EVERYTHING!

(drop your mic, i'm out, yea yea boyyyy) what ever you choose to end with...

Radar is poorly designed and completely broken!

aZflk0y.gif


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1 hour ago, Minah_Bang said:

aZflk0y.gif

Everything, including underwater torpedo runs.
It's blatantly trollish, yet those same people will come right back up and scream "HISTORICAL ACCCURACY" when you talk about an arpeggio skin or something.


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20 hours ago, Mulletproof said:

Everything, including underwater torpedo runs.

OMG...really?!?  Wouldn't that be called Sonar!??

All hail the ALL POWERFUL...RADAR!

Edited by Minah_Bang

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Not really.... sure it can ruin someone's match if they are sitting in smoke *Flash backs in Fiji intensify*. But if your team effectively focus fires the enemy radar ships, they can be easily shut down.

 

The only change id make is to have it not see through islands, but idk how difficuly that would be to implement.

Ive been on both sides of ambushing a DD or RNCL with Radar, but overall it is pretty balanced: though they could shorten the Chappy and DM Donskoi radar range like it has been with the USN radar cruisers (NOLA gets 9km and Balti gets 9.45km radar)


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15 hours ago, 212thAttackBattalion said:

The only change id make is to have it not see through islands, but idk how difficuly that would be to implement.

Doesn't Hydro work and NOT see through land masses!??  Not sure I understand why there is a "need" for radar when there is already hydro and spotter planes?  I can't count how many DDs I have sat on with my planes and my team has sunk them.


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Fairly evenly split between it's OK & it's not. I voted to 'fix' it somewhat, btw.


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I voted yes. But it not ruined the game. Too many ships have it, and the range is too far. Hydro is Max at somewhere around 4.5 - 5. Radar should be 5-7.5. almost 12 is too much. It taking DDs out of the game. I don't play DDs much so I'm not just saying that because.


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On 11/20/2017 at 7:52 PM, Minah_Bang said:

Doesn't Hydro work and NOT see through land masses!??  Not sure I understand why there is a "need" for radar when there is already hydro and spotter planes?  I can't count how many DDs I have sat on with my planes and my team has sunk them.

 

Hydro sees through islands. It's a fault of the automatic spotting system, where you spot any enemy ship within 2 km of you. For hydro and radar, they simply take that 2 km distance and extend it. 


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No problem for me with radar in the game. It is more than a bit annoying that MM seems to have no way to balance the capability on both sides of a battle.


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19 minutes ago, RivertheRoyal said:

 

Hydro sees through islands. It's a fault of the automatic spotting system, where you spot any enemy ship within 2 km of you. For hydro and radar, they simply take that 2 km distance and extend it. 

I'll have to test that.  I don't remember detecting a DD or its torps with Hydro until I rounded the island corner.  Maybe cause hydro is only 2 km vs the up to six times (12 km max range I believe?) of radar.  Maybe the island is more then 2 km wide?

Thanks River  :)

Edited by Minah_Bang

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