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Soshi_Sone

Well, I've finally retired my Yamato....

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...from the brawl game.

 

Yeah, I hung on to that meta for just too long.  The new BB lines (KM in particular) and the smoke/HE meta have eclipsed my ability to push early in Yamato.  I have reverted to the mid range killing machine (which seems to be the best place for this beast in the current meta).  I had to significantly adjust my module choices and captain skills.  Working pretty good so far.  

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That's a shame. I have really enjoyed my brawling IJN BB's, Nagato and Amagi. I know its not as good as the KM brawler build but it really catches people off guard. However, having had my Monty for a while now, and encountered a fair number of Yamatos, when they get close, they get dead. That citadel is so easy to hit. I am really torn if I should respect once I hit Izumo or what.

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Yup, that's the best place for her. While the secondaries can still be deadly and certainly eat through DDs that get too close, her mains are where it's at. 

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Same here, with the new 15 point Yami captain, spec'ed for survival skills and changed out upgrades.  Secondaries were just not providing enough for the focus of captain skill points and upgrades needed to support.

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Brawling in any BB should typically be your 3rd or 4th option anyways. You wouldn't want to do it unless it's near end game when either the game is a sure win or you're desperate to make something happen. This is because you typically come out of a brawl on roughly even trade (assuming equal skill drivers), and unless most of your enemy's team is already gone, it puts you way out ahead of your team in a vulnerable position even if you win the brawl. Meaning, by the time the conditions are right for the brawl, the game is mostly decided anyways. Also, the Yamato is the worst BB for a brawl with the slowest turret traverse, poor maneuverability, and that citadel weak spot under the B turret when angled. If you are taking a Yamato into a brawl, you are either doing something wrong, or you did something wrong earlier so you don't have a choice but to brawl. 

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I know that in co-op, brawling in the Yamato is where it's at and super fun. I still have secondary spec on her and still works wonders.

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I learned early on it's not good to brawl as Yamato.  She is big and too clumsy.  The opportunity to easily exploit her citadel weakness becomes easier to hit and take maximum advantage of.  Also, when you brawl as a Tier IX-X BB, there is no backing out.  Everyone sees you coming miles away and the DDs will be moving to greet you, the BBs and CAs hitting you with focus fire.  In a brawl, other BBs' penetration with their guns skyrocket, so why fight at ranges that give other BBs more advantages?

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Was Yamato ever a good brawler?  I always thought her turrets turned too slow to keep up with any close quarters combat.

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5 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Was Yamato ever a good brawler?  I always thought her turrets turned too slow to keep up with any close quarters combat.

 

Turret traverse is the worst at Tier IX-X.  Lord help you if you had MBM3 slotted :Smile_teethhappy:

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4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Turret traverse is the worst at Tier IX-X.  Lord help you if you had MBM3 slotted :Smile_teethhappy:

Its manageable on Missouri and FDG, but Yamato's is terribad.  That along with the fact she turns like a brick, I never ever considered her much of a brawler.

 

Always assumed her sweet spot was in the 10-15km range.

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LUL, did you used to brawl with a Yamato? Yamato has probably the worst (easy to hit) citadel of high tier BBs now, and the worst turret rotation too. I cant see my Yamato in a brawl.

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34 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

Was Yamato ever a good brawler?  I always thought her turrets turned too slow to keep up with any close quarters combat.

Maybe way back in the day when the only other Tier 10 BB is the Montana. The Montana citadel was higher back then and Yamato had better heals than the Montana. It wasn't so much that Yamato was good, it was more of, the Montana was bad and the only other choice was the Yamato. 

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I use my 19pnt Yamamoto in Yamato and its a long range sniper. The ship is simply not suited to getting close to red ships given how stupidly easy it is to citadel it (so much so I can reliably citadel another yamato out to 30km range)..and then there's the HE spam and the fact that Yamato only really bow tanks... and all those factors make it sit at long range bow tanking.

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9 hours ago, Soshi_Sone said:

...from the brawl game.

 

Yeah, I hung on to that meta for just too long.  The new BB lines (KM in particular) and the smoke/HE meta have eclipsed my ability to push early in Yamato.  I have reverted to the mid range killing machine (which seems to be the best place for this beast in the current meta).  I had to significantly adjust my module choices and captain skills.  Working pretty good so far.  

Agreed.  The citadel around the barbettes gets me into too much trouble when I move in closer.

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7 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

Was Yamato ever a good brawler?  I always thought her turrets turned too slow to keep up with any close quarters combat.

 

She was in CBT and OBT/Live until her Super Heal nerf.

 

In CBT, she was originally more maneuverable than she is now, with about a 800m turning radius but decent rudder shift. Then for a short period, she had near Warspite's level of maneuverability (as part of an overall "historical maneuverability" buff, which made BBs the most maneuverable due to their design; save for Kongou and Amagi, being battlecruisers). In both cases, Yamato could dance pretty well, but was punished brutally if she carelessly bared her broadside at the wrong time. More often, it was convenient to just perform a full turn to bring the guns back on target than swing back. Coupled with her then minor secondary range advantage (about 1km more than the Montana, IIRC), could out-dance many other ships and win out in a death spiral fight. The maneuverability buff was kept for all classes except battleships, and battleships were given worse maneuverability than before the buff; with low tiers keeping roughly historical radii but worse rudder shift, and upper tier BBs from T8 onwards also getting worse turning radii in addition to poor rudder shift.

 

In OBT up until her Super Heal nerf, Yamato was still capable of brawling to some degree thanks to still then having the best secondaries and secondary ranges when spec'd for them (via Modules and Skills mainly), and could tank pretty hard, using her Super Heal to keep her alive much longer than any other ship and still dish out damage once her main guns were brought into play. This did lead to plenty of overly-aggressive but mostly successfull Yamato pushes. However, the Super Heal was somewhat OP for the time period (Montana simply couldn't compete, and didn't have all the buffs she has now), and was eventually nerfed. Nowadays, restoring Yamato's Super Heal would be a sufficient update; still not able to tank as well as GK or repair herself 2~3x over the way Conqueror can.

 

Now that she cannot tank as well as GK or endure as often as Conqueror, maneuver well, nor have the longest-ranged secondaries (which I maintain should have been an IJN thing at least, considering their poor traverse, armor setup, and average RoF compared to the KM BB line), Yamato is better suited to a second line fighter, close enough to the action to pile on the pain, but far enough out to avoid being focused too badly. The 15km~18km range is a general sweetspot for Yamato; just far enough out of immediate torpedo or KM secondary spam range, but close enough to keep the main guns on target and pile the pain, without giving targets too much time to react, and also giving Yamato herself sufficient space to react as needed. Moreso if she's following behind an advance force that forces the splitting of enemy fire and scouting out incoming long-range torps.

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