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Panzerlin

Deep Water Torps

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So I've been looking forward to a new destroyer line since I hit the Gaede and didn't want to go further with ze Germans.  The upcoming Pan-Asian ships were of interest to me until I popped onto the wiki and saw: "Unlike the torpedoes mounted on other destroyers, these fish are set to run at depths of 5-6 meters, meaning that enemy destroyers cannot take hits from them; conversely, they are highly lethal to all opposing battleships and carriers, as well as most enemy cruisers."

Now I know that radar will be thrown into the mix but I vastly prefer sinking enemy DD's by torping their smoke when they get complacent.  This puts the line at a huge disadvantage when fighting regular torpedo equipped enemy destroyers in close combat.  Furthermore I don't feel like memorizing the hull depth of cruisers as yet another variable in the torpedo attack process, I imagine the frustration of having a perfect spread go under a cruiser because it was one of the exceptions as a source of frustration.  [Addressed.]  Less so than the DD combat though, that's what's scaring me off the line right now.

If the goal was to have a destroyer line well equipped to take out battleships dominating the server numbers, it'd be easy to retain regular torpedoes for that effect.  Drop the detection value of the fish from a low but scary number (Gearing's 1.3km) to ridiculous, like 0.8km.  Doesn't change detection from spotter planes or hydro, makes cruiser screening important again.

I'm not salty, I'm just kind of baffled by this gimmick's introduction to the game tbh. :fish_sleep:

 

Edited as people pointed out that cruisers will no longer have an immunity, I am slow to the party.  Still would rather see extremely low torpedo detection as an alternative personally though. :cap_hmm:

 

Edited by Panzerlin
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The torpedoes hit all battleships, cruisers, and aircraft carriers. source: 

 

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The deep water torps on the Pan Asia DDs are ship type specific. Meaning they hit all ship types except destroyers. The wiki has not been updated yet. Meaning you won’t have to memorize hull depths. The GZ deep water torps are the ones that are depth specific.

 

Also, how are you just now learning that they have deep water torps? They’ve been discussed and talked about countless times and have been in testing for months now. We also knew about the deep water torps on them and the stats for them before testing even started for them.

Edited by renegadestatuz

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DWTs have gone back and forth several times on exact design, but the current version is not draft-based, it's class-based. It will hit all cruisers or none of them (but whether it's all vs. none seems to change every other test based on datamining).

As for no longer torpedoing DDs, that's pretty much the entire point. They get to have extra concealment in exchange for not being able to ninja-boom destroyers.

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5 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

DWTs have gone back and forth several times on exact design, but the current version is not draft-based, it's class-based. It will hit all cruisers or none of them (but whether it's all vs. none seems to change every other test based on datamining).

As for no longer torpedoing DDs, that's pretty much the entire point. They get to have extra concealment in exchange for not being able to ninja-boom destroyers.

Don’t forget that they get radar on the high tiers. To help hunt down dds to make up for the fact that they can’t hit them with their torps.

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I don't know why they don't make the DWT's class/nation based for cruisers. Instead of individual cruisers having vulnerability or not, just make it so that an entire nation can or cannot be hit. IMO, British and IJN cruisers should remain immune to them. British since they're so small, and IJN since they have no other gimmicks going for them.

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Can I be the one random guy who pokes his head in and says it might not be a terrible idea to push through the pain that Earnst Geade can be and keep going with the Germans? I'm only on the Lebercht Maass, but that ship is quite good and the top tier German DDs are also excellent.

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59 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

Also, how are you just now learning that they have deep water torps? They’ve been discussed and talked about countless times and have been in testing for months now. We also knew about the deep water torps on them and the stats for them before testing even started for them.

I heard the rumors on the game chat but I don't browse the forums that often.  But thanks for the clarification about the wiki entry.

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1 hour ago, Panzerlin said:

I heard the rumors on the game chat but I don't browse the forums that often.  But thanks for the clarification about the wiki entry.

I to had difficulty understanding why anyone would desire the DWT, That said I have difficulty understanding many things, and just put this to one more thing I will not understand. 

Edited by MzFortune58

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2 hours ago, Captain_Dorja said:

Can I be the one random guy who pokes his head in and says it might not be a terrible idea to push through the pain that Earnst Geade can be and keep going with the Germans? I'm only on the Lebercht Maass, but that ship is quite good and the top tier German DDs are also excellent.

I'll second this.  It is worth it to keep moving up the KM DD line..  It is called "grinding a line" for a reason and that reason is that there is usually a flat spot somewhere that you just have to slog through to get to the end.  It was a grind to get through Izzy to Yam.  It was a grind to get through Genny and FD to GK.  T6-7 in the KM line was a grind and even the Z46 just felt like it was missing "something", but I knew what was coming in the 52 and it was worth every minute spent getting there.

 

As for the deep water torps not hitting DD's, that is fine if the trade off is a more powerful punch to the cruiser/BB line.  I hunt the heavy guys anyway and view torping DD smoke as something that I will do if no other target option is available, but is a fairly low percentage way to waste a torp shot.  When you get up to the point where you have to wait 90 seconds or longer to reload, you think about where you might be 90 seconds from now before you just go lobbing torps around willy nilly hoping to hit something.  I am looking forward to the Pan Asian DD's as a different wrinkle.  I wish they had them on the current test server.

 

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

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5 minutes ago, CaptGodzillaPig said:

I'll second this.  It is worth it to keep moving up the KM DD line..  It is called "grinding a line" for a reason and that reason is that there is usually a flat spot somewhere that you just have to slog through to get to the end.

To be clear, I stopped at tier 6 because I adore the Gaede and lost the desire to push on with it.  I paid through Izumo in its pre-buff state so I don't need the grinding brochure, I've been there brother. :cap_like:

I was hoping to get a DD line that could gunfight/torp with the Americans with the radar as an option but I consider DD's vital targets so I would like my torps to function in that regard too.

 

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3 hours ago, Panzerlin said:

So I've been looking forward to a new destroyer line since I hit the Gaede and didn't want to go further with ze Germans.  The upcoming Pan-Asian ships were of interest to me until I popped onto the wiki and saw: "Unlike the torpedoes mounted on other destroyers, these fish are set to run at depths of 5-6 meters, meaning that enemy destroyers cannot take hits from them; conversely, they are highly lethal to all opposing battleships and carriers, as well as most enemy cruisers."

Now I know that radar will be thrown into the mix but I vastly prefer sinking enemy DD's by torping their smoke when they get complacent.  This puts the line at a huge disadvantage when fighting regular torpedo equipped enemy destroyers in close combat.  Furthermore I don't feel like memorizing the hull depth of cruisers as yet another variable in the torpedo attack process, I imagine the frustration of having a perfect spread go under a cruiser because it was one of the exceptions as a source of frustration.  [Addressed.]  Less so than the DD combat though, that's what's scaring me off the line right now.

If the goal was to have a destroyer line well equipped to take out battleships dominating the server numbers, it'd be easy to retain regular torpedoes for that effect.  Drop the detection value of the fish from a low but scary number (Gearing's 1.3km) to ridiculous, like 0.8km.  Doesn't change detection from spotter planes or hydro, makes cruiser screening important again.

I'm not salty, I'm just kind of baffled by this gimmick's introduction to the game tbh. :fish_sleep:

 

Edited as people pointed out that cruisers will no longer have an immunity, I am slow to the party.  Still would rather see extremely low torpedo detection as an alternative personally though. :cap_hmm:

 

Extremely low torpedo detection is something that supposed to belong to the Japanese since their torps did not leave the iconic oxygen wake found on American and German torpedoes.

 

From someone who played 688i hunter killer and Dangerous waters, having a draught dependant weapon would be more entertaining and engaging for both sides. As a cruiser it would have been a danger I could exploit; or as a did driver a chance to manipulate  certain targets like BBs into feeling secure hiding behind screens; its a missed opportunity IMO.

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9 minutes ago, Panzerlin said:

To be clear, I stopped at tier 6 because I adore the Gaede and lost the desire to push on with it.  I paid through Izumo in its pre-buff state so I don't need the grinding brochure, I've been there brother. :cap_like:

I was hoping to get a DD line that could gunfight/torp with the Americans with the radar as an option but I consider DD's vital targets so I would like my torps to function in that regard too.

 

Also note, the top tier pan Asian dds get better smoke than the US DDs. The tier 10 with captain skills and fully upgraded/premium smoke, has no cooldown time between the time it’s smoke ends and the time it can lay a new smoke. Meaning you can smoke up instantly the second your smoke runs out. Your cooldown time is actually quicker than your smoke. Meaning your smoke will be ready again before your smoke even fades/ends. Also means she has around 10 minutes of continuous smoke lol.

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5 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

Also note, the top tier pan Asian dds get better smoke than the US DDs. The tier 10 with captain skills and fully upgraded/premium smoke, has no cooldown time between the time it’s smoke ends and the time it can lay a new smoke. Meaning you can smoke up instantly the second your smoke runs out. Your cooldown time is actually quicker than your smoke. Meaning your smoke will be ready again before your smoke even fades/ends. Also means she has around 10 minutes of continuous smoke lol.

Which also means they run out of smoke charges faster. Given that matches are 20 minutes, this edge can easily become an impediment if there is a lack of DDs or friendly dds die early.

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29 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

Also note, the top tier pan Asian dds get better smoke than the US DDs. The tier 10 with captain skills and fully upgraded/premium smoke, has no cooldown time between the time it’s smoke ends and the time it can lay a new smoke. Meaning you can smoke up instantly the second your smoke runs out. Your cooldown time is actually quicker than your smoke. Meaning your smoke will be ready again before your smoke even fades/ends. Also means she has around 10 minutes of continuous smoke lol.

 

Did DWT detection range get nerfed?  I remember hearing that it did, which would defeat the entire point of DWT's.  But some say it didn't, some say it was reverted, and cannot find any proof either or.

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Did DWT detection range get nerfed?  I remember hearing that it did, which would defeat the entire point of DWT's.  But some say it didn't, some say it was reverted, and cannot find any proof either or.

It has not been nerfed. If the detection had been nerfed then it would’ve been posted/mentioned on the dev blog along with all the other changes. And there has not been any changes/nerfs to the detection that I can see on the posts on the dev blog.

 

Edit: Only the low tiers(tiers 2-4) had the detection nerfed on their dwt. Tiers 5-10 have kept their same detections.

 

Edited by renegadestatuz
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51 minutes ago, Panzerlin said:

To be clear, I stopped at tier 6 because I adore the Gaede and lost the desire to push on with it.  I paid through Izumo in its pre-buff state so I don't need the grinding brochure, I've been there brother. :cap_like:

I was hoping to get a DD line that could gunfight/torp with the Americans with the radar as an option but I consider DD's vital targets so I would like my torps to function in that regard too.

 

 

Ah I got you on the Germans. Most people I've known don't like Old Earnst, so when you said you stopped there, I thought you meant you gave up on progression, not that you found a happy place.

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What is the good part of DWT? Are they just randomly nerfed torpedoes that don’t hit DDs? 

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Just now, BlailBlerg said:

What is the good part of DWT? Are they just randomly nerfed torpedoes that don’t hit DDs? 

DWT can actually hit below the torpedo bulge on BBs, meaning they don't get reduced damage from the impact.  Shima 20k damage torps hit a Yamato for ~8k when striking anywhere on the bulge, vs a DWT going below it and actually doing 20k damage.

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8 minutes ago, Sirus_Patton said:

DWT can actually hit below the torpedo bulge on BBs, meaning they don't get reduced damage from the impact.  Shima 20k damage torps hit a Yamato for ~8k when striking anywhere on the bulge, vs a DWT going below it and actually doing 20k damage.

They already do a lot of dmg though... feel like its more like 16k or so. 

But are these PA torps actually high damage? Or laughably like 11k max damage anyway?

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Also, as much as I want the PA DD, not having the counter play fof where to take a torp is not good design

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19 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

It has not been nerfed. If the detection had been nerfed then it would’ve been posted/mentioned on the dev blog along with all the other changes. And there has not been any changes/nerfs to the detection that I can see on the posts on the dev blog.

 

Edit: Only the low tiers(tiers 2-4) had the detection nerfed on their dwt. Tiers 5-10 have kept their same detections.

 

 

Great, thanks for that.  It put up some serious "red flags" with that line.  The fun thing is having 1 captain to progress down that line with. Some very different styled DDs in that line.

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My concern with deep water torpedoes begins and ends with the fact that, in a battle that involves PA DDs, battleship camping and passive play will not only be validated, but will become necessity. The game is about to get a whole lot less interesting. 

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30 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

My concern with deep water torpedoes begins and ends with the fact that, in a battle that involves PA DDs, battleship camping and passive play will not only be validated, but will become necessity. The game is about to get a whole lot less interesting. 

 

They were always passive, even after the economy changes long ago.  May as well put them out of their misery.

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3 hours ago, BlailBlerg said:

They already do a lot of dmg though... feel like its more like 16k or so. 

But are these PA torps actually high damage? Or laughably like 11k max damage anyway?

They do more damage than US torps.

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