How to fix the Conquerer

[bubbleboy264]

I share the opinion of many that the tier 10 British battleship, the Conquerer, is blatantly overpowered, and that the small nerf to the heal recharge time they recently implemented wasn't enough. The conquerer deserves a fair and balanced nerf, and I think I have a solution. My main gripe with it honestly isn't the guns or the HE spam, it can definitely be countered by good repair use and fire prevention. To me what is overpowered is how tough it is due to the heal and the impossible to hit citadel. It is essentially a German BB with a much stronger heal, better concealment, guns, and maneuverability, but bad secondaries and low base hp. My solution to the Conquerer balance problem is to raise the citadel above the waterline so it can be easily hit and targeted, similar to the Yamato's or halfway between the waterline and the pre-buff Iowa's citadel. Why should WG do this? The conquerer is op because it is a cheap/easy ship to play with no real weaknesses. You can go full broadside and spam HE all day and still heal back half your health when you overextend. Raising the citadel solves all of these issues. It gives the ship a clear weakness (weak broadside), and indirectly nerfs its OP heal (since citadels can only heal 10% of HP). It encourages good play by using angling and positioning to maximize its tankiness, but if you play like an idiot you will be punished severely. IMO that is what battleship design in this game should be, and one of the best cases of this is the North Carolina. The NC has great guns and is very tanky, but if you misplay it your weakness (weak broadside/easy to hit citadel) can be exploited by smart players to wreck the ship. Raising the Conq's citadel does the same thing without sacrificing what makes the ship unique. It encourages smart play and makes sure that the ship has a clear weakness, which balances out its firepower and heal. With a raised citadel, the Conquerer could be a great case of game balance, by becoming a ship with great strengths and unique attributes but that has clear disadvantages that will send you back to port for playing like an idiot. Now the citadel shouldn't be too weak like the pre-buff Iowa's, but raising it to the level of the Yamato's in my humble opinion will do more than enough to balance the ship, and can leave it in a good place, in that of a ship with huge damage and tank potential, but only if played correctly. This should be the goal of battleship balance, and doing this will be a good step forward. I think this should seriously be considered. 

Now some will say that its historically inaccurate to raise the citadel, but come on, this is an arcade game, historical accuracy isn't a very strong argument. It is considered, but balance and player experience trumps everything else. This is my suggestion for fixing the Conquerer, what are your thoughts?

[Trainspite]

People saying 'Conquerer' instead of 'Conqueror' triggers me almost as much as when 'Prince of Whales' turns up every now and again.

[aethervox]

Really, lol, the Conquer'er'?

Wall of text'lessness'.

 

[bubbleboy264]

Just now, aethervox said:

Really, lol, the Conquer'er'?

Wall of text'lessness'.

 

Does anyone have an actual opinion on my suggestion that would be splendid.

[LancerUlysses]

I fixed my Conqueror by putting my 19pt Jack Dunkirk aboard as commander, adding some modules and spec'ing her for survivability and gun handling. 

 

I mostly run AP, which sticks to cruisers and DDs surprisingly well, as well as walloping the odd BB as well. HE I use to help squash that annoying camping/bowtanking meta that induces people to call for nerfs to be introduced. Ironically, if WG nerfs the HE, folk are going to learn to their great horror how effective the AP rounds truly are. Overpens are just not an issue. 

[LancerUlysses]

11 minutes ago, Trainspite said:

People saying 'Conquerer' instead of 'Conqueror' triggers me almost as much as when 'Prince of Whales' turns up every now and again.

Did someone say prints of whales? 

 

 

[bubbleboy264]

I’m sorry for being a party pooper but what do you think about my suggestion?

[aethervox]

14 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

Does anyone have an actual opinion on my suggestion that would be splendid.

OK. If the Conqueror is deemed to be OP then the nerf bat will be applied & it will be beaten into 'balance submission'.

(well maybe, 'one day over the rainbow' considering how long it sometimes takes WG to 'correct a problem')

 ( I don't have the Conqueror so I can't say if you are right or wrong & I am trying, OP, seriously)

[Pope_Shizzle]

There is nothing wrong with the Conq.  It doesn't need to be fixed.  The heal nerf was more than sufficient.  Stop whining and play the damned game.

[bubbleboy264]

Just now, Pope_Shizzle said:

There is nothing wrong with the Conq.  It doesn't need to be fixed.  The heal nerf was more than sufficient.  Stop whining and play the damned game.

How am I “whining”? Please enlighten me 

[mofton]

The Conqueror's stats for WR when normalized for Conqueror players were already behind the Montana before the nerf.

Kinda dubious on this.

[Trainspite]

3 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I’m sorry for being a party pooper but what do you think about my suggestion?

 

Ehh, and it was just getting mildly amusing! 

 

It has been suggested before to raise the citadel, but making Conqueror a glass cannon is not what I would like to see preferably.

I would perfer the 1/4 HE pen be removed, the concealment increased by 1-3km, the 32mm deck increased to 35mm or 40mm or so, and the possibly the option for the 419s removed completely. The ship would be more normalised, traits being low-ish concealment, an insanely high HE chance, good accuracy, and relatively resistant to damage. The ship has the HP repair which can make it stick around for longer, but especially with the nerf, the ship has to stay back and not take too much damage. Though if I had my way, I would undo the HP repair nerf, it already takes enough damage as is and needs the HP repair. 

[LancerUlysses]

1 minute ago, bubbleboy264 said:

How am I “whining”? Please enlighten me 

Not saying you are whining, but I will say, as an owner of the Yammie, Conq and Montana, the Montana is best, followed by the Conq, as being narrowly better than the Yamato (but the Yamato is more fun). I will unlock the GK in about a week, but if the Fat Freddy is any indication, it will probably place fourth on my faves list. 

 

[aethervox]

4 minutes ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

Stop whining and play the damned game.

 

Shark alert! Get out of the water or you might get eaten. Get a harpoon. I hear shark fins go for a good price. But is shark fin soup that tasty considering 'this' source?

[bubbleboy264]

3 minutes ago, Trainspite said:

 

Ehh, and it was just getting mildly amusing! 

 

It has been suggested before to raise the citadel, but making Conqueror a glass cannon is not what I would like to see preferably.

I would perfer the 1/4 HE pen be removed, the concealment increased by 1-3km, the 32mm deck increased to 35mm or 40mm or so, and the possibly the option for the 419s removed completely. The ship would be more normalised, traits being low-ish concealment, an insanely high HE chance, good accuracy, and relatively resistant to damage. The ship has the HP repair which can make it stick around for longer, but especially with the nerf, the ship has to stay back and not take too much damage. Though if I had my way, I would undo the HP repair nerf, it already takes enough damage as is and needs the HP repair. 

It wouldn’t make it a glass cannon, it would be like the NC. The NC is very tough but only if used correctly. The citadel should be around the NC’s level, maybe slightly lower than Yamato’s 

[LancerUlysses]

2 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

It wouldn’t make it a glass cannon, it would be like the NC. The NC is very tough but only if used correctly. The citadel should be around the NC’s level, maybe slightly lower than Yamato’s 

The NCs citadel was lowered, and although the side protection is still weak for its tier, it is no longer nearly as vulnerable. 

[bubbleboy264]

8 minutes ago, LancerUlysses said:

The NCs citadel was lowered, and although the side protection is still weak for its tier, it is no longer nearly as vulnerable. 

I have the NC and love her, but if I give too much broadside I will get punished in it, but not too easily like in the old Iowa. Doing that to the conqueror will fairly balance it.

[mohawkdriver]

24 minutes ago, Pope_Shizzle said:

There is nothing wrong with the Conq.  It doesn't need to be fixed.  The heal nerf was more than sufficient.  Stop whining and play the damned game.

So much this..^^^^^

[LancerUlysses]

Just now, bubbleboy264 said:

I have the NC and love her, but if I give too much broadside I will get punished in it, but not too easily like in the old Iowa. Doing that to the conqueror will fairly balance it.

The NC is tier VIII, it should not be the model for a Tier X. In practice, the Conqeror is not the most effective Tier X BB. If you want a real-world check up on that, look at the current clan battles. For players not stuck with the GK as their ride, most of the BB drivers choose Montana. 

[yamato6945]

On 10/28/2017 at 9:23 PM, Trainspite said:

People saying 'Conquerer' instead of 'Conqueror' triggers me almost as much as when 'Prince of Whales' turns up every now and again.

But Prince of Whales 

 

[bubbleboy264]

11 minutes ago, LancerUlysses said:

The NC is tier VIII, it should not be the model for a Tier X. In practice, the Conqeror is not the most effective Tier X BB. If you want a real-world check up on that, look at the current clan battles. For players not stuck with the GK as their ride, most of the BB drivers choose Montana. 

What difference does the tier make?

[Ajax_the_Great1]

Raise all the damn citadels up. Derp proof game play is awful.

[Magic_Fighting_Tuna]

 I really don't think the Conqueror needs a nerf, as you mentioned her strengths are better concealment, maneuverability, good main guns, healing abilities and hard to citadel. But these are also her weaknesses. If the Conqueror starts piling on too much damage too rapidly and she cannot break contact from her enemies(a DD or CV keeps her spotted) to make use of the good healz and exploit her concealment advantage the lack of HP will catch up with her and she'll bleed out damage faster then she can repair it and having less HP makes her more susceptible to constant "pressure." Like the German battleships she's hard to citadel but without proper angling she can suffer normal penetration rounds quite easily but with the German Battleships having more health they have a much greater probability to endure more penetration punishment then the Conqueror so again she's weaker in this concept. Maneuverability will only get you so far, even though she more nimble then her rivals she still can't out run cruisers, destroyers, torpedo's and shells, maneuverability will only get you so far as its impossible to avoid enemy fire 100% of the time. Having good guns falls in the same category as maneuverability it will only get you so far, if you go all of nothing on guns for defense this will only work if you can outright destroy anything that poses a threat to you, if you fail to destroy a threat you now have nothing fallback on and your vulnerable to retaliation.

I haven't actually used them personally yet but the way to take them down from a observations point of view(and fighting against them) is to keep pressure on them and stay with in their detection distance so they cannot disappear and repair. So basically if you can get into close combat with them their going to be fighting an uphill battle as anything with bigger guns can punch holes in them and anything with smaller guns can throw torpedo's at them.

[Trainspite]

11 minutes ago, yamato6945 said:

But Prince of Whales 

 

*attempts to summon Welsh dragon, but realises that the Dragon probably can't counter the whale*

 

*summons a Shimakaze converted to Whaling operations instead*

[Crucis]

50 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I’m sorry for being a party pooper but what do you think about my suggestion?

Fix your spelling first, then we can talk.  And the lack of paragraphs, too.