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Aeries1

Strongest AA Cruisers in the Game

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Hello captains!  Are you a cruiser player looking to clear the sky and protect your fleet?  Perhaps you are a CV captain who wants to know which cruisers really are easy prey?  These questions I wanted answers to as well so decided to rank all the silver ship cruisers from tier 5 through tier 10 based on their AA power.

The USN national flavor has always had hype built around their AA firepower.  Most know the deadliness of Cleveland and Des Moines in swatting down planes, but are USN cruisers really the best in class throughout the line?  Some of the results may surprise you.

Data was calculated using all available captain skills, modules, and consumables available to each tier. Base damage will be normal text. ( ) are values for CTRL clicking a squad to enable Manual AA, provide the normal + 30% dps, as well as the addition of Basic Fire Training and AAGM3.  [ ] values indicate maximum dps with the Defensive Fire Consumable engaged for ships that possess it.

All Available AA Modifiers

Basic Fire Training + 20% dps for all AA guns

Advanced Fire Training + 20% range

Manual Fire Control AA + 100% to dps dual purpose artillery above 85mm

AA Guns Modification 2 + 20% range

AA Guns Modification 3 + 25% dps for all AA guns (Tier 9 and 10 Only)

Manual Selecting a Squad + 30% dps for all AA guns on selected squad

Defensive Fire Consumable 3x dps multiplier for AA guns 25mm or greater (Sorry 20mm Oerlikons, no love for you) Tier 6 +

 

My personal pick is subjective and not necessarily based on total dps of the ship.  Most ships contain 3 rings of AA; an inner ring, usually 20mm, a middle ring, typically 40mm or 37mm, and an outer ring usually consisting of your dual-purpose AA. 

For purposes of shooting down planes, not only protecting the fleet, but also yourself, you need two things, range and damage.  The longer planes can take damage in the middle and outer rings the more planes you are going to down.  Having a strong inner ring is great, but it is of little use in fleet protection.  It provides very brief damage to planes before they drop their ordnance on you and has even less of an effect as you move up in tiers due to increasing plane speed.  That is what makes Cleveland and Des Moines such fearsome AA platforms, strong damage in their middle and outer rings.

Enough babbling, on to the results.

T5 Results

Spoiler

T5                            Inner              Middle             Outer              Total                M and O       Rank

 

Furutaka                 7(11)[-]           20(31)[-]            20(62)[-]       47(104)[-]           40(93)[-]           3

 

Omaha                   36(56)[-]         56(87)[-]             None             92(143)[-]           56(87)[-]           5

  

Kirov                       None             51(80)[-]         42(125)[-]          93(205)[-]         93(205)[-]          1

 

Konigsberg            12(19)[-]         10(16)[-]           24(75)[-]         46(110)[-]           34(91)[-]           4

 

Emerald                 59(92)[-]         28(44)[-]            8(25)[-]          95(161)[-]           36(69)[-]           6

 

Emile Bertin          50(78)[-]         55(86)[-]            5(16)[-]        110(180)[-]          60(102)[-]          2

 

T5 Winner Kirov

 

Da comrade, is true. This one surprised me a bit.  Kirov wins this one by a landslide.  Kirov has a strong middle ring with her 37 mm, but it is her devastating outer ring that makes her a very solid AA boat with investment, despite the lack of Defensive Fire.  The 100 mm B 34s provide nearly double the long-range damage of its nearest competitor. If that isn’t enough of an AA edge her base range of 5 km, extendable to 7.2 km, on her outer ring is longer than any other boat at this tier where Omaha lacks one completely and the rest of the pack is in the 3.5 – 4km range save for Furutaka at 4.5 km.  Put BFT, AFT, AA Mod 2, and Manual AA on her and she becomes a nightmare for tier 4 and 5 CV players and can give T6 CVs a run for their money.  With a velocity and reload buff coming for patch 6.13 time to rebuy this glass cannon and have some fun.

T6 Results

Spoiler

T6                                  Inner                    Middle                     Outer                   Total                    M and O             Rank

  

Aoba                              None                87(136)[408]            20(62)[186]       107(198)[594]         107(198)[594]             3

 

Cleveland                   47(73)[-]             68(106)[318]           91(284)[852]      206(463)[1170]       159(390)[1170]           1

 

Budyonny                      None                72(112)[336]            30(94)[282]        102(206)[618]        102(206)[618]             2

 

Nurnberg(C Hull)     89(139)[-]              60(94)[282]           32(100)[300]        181(333)[582]          92(194)[582]             3

 

Leander                      42(66)[-]                 32(50)[-]                38(118)[-]            112(231)[-]              70(168)[-]                4

 

La Galissonniere        58(90)[-]             95(148)[444]            15(46)[138]        168(284)[582]         110(194)[582]            3

 

T6 Winner Cleveland

 

Was there ever any doubt?  Cleveland’s AA power and reputation are well deserved.  With nearly 3 times the long-range AA power of its nearest competitor the 127/38s make swiss cheese out of planes as far out as 7.2 km, backed up by a solid middle ring of 40 mm Bofors which can extend out to 5.1 km.  Manual AA is the key to really maximize her power going from 91(142)[426] to 91(284)[852] on her outer ring.  With all the AA skills and modules, she doesn’t fear much from the sky even in T8 games.  Considering she used to be a T8 back in the day it makes sense and believe it or not is quite nerfed compared to what the T8 ship was capable of.  CV captains avoid her like the plague for good reason.  With regards to AA power she is the most OP ship in the game for her tier range.  In this case the USN AA hype holds very true, but does it continue?

T7 Results

Spoiler

T7                       Inner                   Middle                    Outer                     Total                  M and O             Rank  

 

Myoko                None             111(173)[519]          40(124)[372]        151(297)[819]        151(297)[819]            2

 

Pensacola         61(95)[-]           95(148)[444]          58(180)[540]         214(423)[984]       153(328)[984]            1

 

Shchors            20(31)[-]           73(114)[342]          40(124)[372]         133(269)[714]       113(238)[714]            5

 

York               70(109)[-]            45(70)[210]           67(210)[630]        182(389)[840]        112(280)[840]           3

 

Fiji                  72(112)[-]             57(89)[-]                 60(188)[-]              189(389)[-]            117(277)[-]            6

 

Algerie               None               82(128)[384]          41(128)[384]        123(256)[768]        123(256)[768]           4

 

T7 Winner Pensacola

 

Though not the powerhouse that Cleveland is at her tier, the Pepsi still manages to take the 1st place spot in AA superiority, especially with Defensive Fire engaged.  While the 127/25s aren’t the deadly dual-purpose guns that the 127/38s are on the Cleveland they get the job done and are backed up by a solid middle ring of 40 mm Bofors that benefit from the 3x Defensive Fire boost as well. 

 

A 2nd place nod can be given to a stronger than usual IJN performance with Myoko.  The likely culprit being she used to be the T8 cruiser while Mogami was T7.  Think they got lazy and just never adjusted either’s AA stats.  While technically York beats her on the middle and outer ring combined totals, it will take the Manual AA skill to do so and just barely while solid dps can be achieved with only BFT on Myoko.  Myoko mounts a 1st in tier middle ring with her impressive 25mm battery.  With a captain without any AA skills Myoko is neck in neck with what the Pepsi can produce on her base stats.  As close to the #1 spot that the IJN cruisers will get this is as strong as it gets for tier for the Japanese Navy.  USN AA supremacy continues, for now. 

 

T8 Results

Spoiler

T8                              Inner                Middle                   Outer                       Total                        M and O               Rank

 

Mogami                     None            87(136)[408]         40(124)[372]          127(260)[780]             127(260)[780]               6

 

New Orleans         134(209)[-]       95(148)[444]         58(180)[540]          287(537)[984]             153(328)[984]               3

 

Chapayev                  None           129(201)[603]         78(244)[732]         207(445)[1335]           207(445)[1335]              2

 

Hipper                    53(83)[-]        135(211)[633]       100(312)[936]         288(606)[1569]           235(523)[1569]              1

 

Edinburgh              85(133)[-]          88(137)[-]              90(280)[-]               263(417)[-]                 178(417)[-]                  5

 

Charles Martel        58(90)[-]       112(175)[525]         34(106)[318]          204(371)[846]             146(281)[843]               4

 

T8 Winner Admiral Hipper

 

The Germans finally put one in the win column with the Hipper.  With a best in tier middle and out ring Hipper puts up some very nasty AA fire with one caveat, you will have to convince yourself to drop the better than normal Hydro and take Defensive Fire instead.  If you are willing to do that a very strong AA performer will be your reward.  Her only drawback is a lower than typical outer ring range of 4.5 km on the 100 mm dual-purpose mounts, but are backed up by the strong 40 mm middle ring Flak at a typical 3.5 km base range.  Chappy is also very strong in the AA department in T8 with these two very comfortably ahead of the rest of the pack in AA performance.

 

T9 Results

Spoiler

T9                         Inner                 Middle                       Outer                       Total                        M and O                 Rank

 

Ibuki                     None            153(299)[897]            83(324)[972]          236(623)[1869]           236(623)[1869]               5

 

Baltimore          83(162)[-]       191(372)[1116]          91(355)[1065]        365(889)[2181]           282(727)[2181]               2

 

Donskoi                None           208(405)[1215]         117(458)[1374]        325(863)[2589]           325(863)[2589]               1

 

Roon                 60(118)[-]        165(321)[963]          100(390)[1170]        325(829)[2133]           265(711)[2133]               4

 

Neptune            85(166)[-]           254(495)[-]               193(752)[-]             532(1413)[-]                 447(1247)[-]                1

 

Saint Louis       92(179)[-]        154(300)[900]          104(406)[1218]        350(885)[2118]           258(706)[2118]               3

 

T9 Winners Dimitri Donskoi and Neptune

 

It’s a tie!  In a tier where AA power gets mighty scary thanks to the AAGM3 boosting another 25% there are 2 boats that stand comfortably above the rest.  First up DD.  Lacking an inner ring mounting all her AA power where it counts Donskoi is roughly 25% stronger than the rest of the pack for those precious seconds your Defensive Fire is up coming in with a whopping 2589 max potential dps.  This impressive number is good enough for 4th place in maximum possible cruiser dps, even compared to T10 boats.  Donskoi would provide a big surprise to an enemy CV captain not aware of her potential.  The strongest RU AA cruiser in the line she is perhaps the biggest hidden AA gem in high tier.  I know I wasn’t aware of the devastation she was capable of.

 

Neptune?  It can’t even mount Defensive Fire, yet for this ship it doesn’t matter.  She puts out 80 – 100% more dps compared to the other T9 cruisers when Defensive Fire is not installed or on cooldown.  Neptune is 1st in tier for middle and outer ring dps mounting a BB worthy armament of 40 mm guns and not only 114 mm dual-purpose secondary’s, but also 152 mm dual-purpose main guns as well providing incredible long-range punch.  Manual AA is a must on this boat for that reason alone, you get the bonus for two different sets of guns. 

 

If having a double whammy in the outer ring isn’t good enough, Neptune is capable of extending her dual-purpose main guns out to an incredible 8.6 km with a base range of 6 km, the longest in the game tied only with Minotaur’s dual-purpose main guns.  1247 max dps minute after minute nonstop is insane.  To put that into perspective that is like having Cleveland’s Defensive Fire running non-stop THE ENTIRE GAME, but stronger with longer range. 

 

Neptune is not only the pinnacle of RN cruiser AA power, even surpassing the mighty Minotaur, Defensive Fire aside, she is the strongest AA cruiser in the entire game, and she’s a T9.

T10 Results

Spoiler

T10                           Inner                            Middle                                      Outer                                               Total                             M and O                Rank

 

Zao                            None                      202(394)[1182]                       125(488)[1464]                                327(882)[2646]                327(882)[2646]               3   

 

Des Moines           43(84)[-]                           None                     335(653)[1959]/91(355)[1065]                  469(1092)[3024]              426(1008)[3024]              1

 

Moskva                     None                      174(339)[1017]                      112(437)[1311]                                 286(776)[2328]                 286(776)[2328]              5

 

Hindenburg          72(140)[-]                          None                     206(402)[1206]/133(519)[1557]                411(1061)[2763]                339(921)[2763]              2

 

Minotaur              61(119)[-]                          None                            315(614)[-]/118(460)[-]                         494(1193)[-]                      433(1074)[-]                 2

 

Henri IV                   None                              None                     204(398)[1194]/94(367)[1101]                   298(765)[1561]                298(765)[2295]               4

 

T10 Winner Des Moines

   

After two lackluster performances in T8 and T9 the USN brings home the win in a big way with Des Moines.  The only cruiser in the game capable of surpassing 3000 dps with a maximum potential dps of 3024 with Defensive Fire engaged.  That’s like slapping TWO Hipper’s on the DM’s hull and releasing AA Armageddon.  For captain’s willing to maximize DM’s AA potential even T10 planes will simply evaporate far before they ever get anywhere near her.  With nearly all of her AA power solely in the 7.2 km capable outer ring, with just a splash of 20 mm’s, she can project her full power the moment planes are in range.  So, can the USN claim AA superiority up the entire line?  No, but they sure finish in a very big way.  The stars and stripes can rest easy knowing that a cruiser’s ability to turn planes into confetti will likely never be surpassed.  Des Moines is simply legendary.

 

 

Edit:  Fixed T10 text box.

Edited by Aeries1
Highlighted "My personal pick is subjective" for the reading impaired
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This interesting and informative. Thanks. I took your numbers and added across all the lines to kind of get an overview of AA for all of the represented tiers in a given line, (lowest score is best):

Japan - 22

US - 13

USSR - 16

Germany - 17

UK - 24

France - 20

So, overall, US is best, Japan/UK are terrible, France is nearly terrible, and USSR/Germany are in the middle according to your ranks. US also has the best at T10 so if AA is your thing it definitely seems to be the line to choose and has a reputation for it.

 

 

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COuld be interesting to include premium CAs/CLs, specially atlanta and kutuzov (aa boats) but also indianapolis, atago, etc

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Kutuzov is ridiculous when fully speeced AA with DFAA. I have a 19 captain on mine that's "mostly" specced for AA, but we all know how disgusting that ship is towards enemy BB's at long range. And I always run DFAA, so enemy CV's, even tier 10, don't bother me.

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25 minutes ago, Caducus46 said:

Kutuzov is ridiculous when fully speeced AA with DFAA. I have a 19 captain on mine that's "mostly" specced for AA, but we all know how disgusting that ship is towards enemy BB's at long range. And I always run DFAA, so enemy CV's, even tier 10, don't bother me.

Yeah MK, even without an AA build, is bad news bears for carrier planes. That's what 1950s radar directed 100mm AA guns will do to a TBF Avenger XD

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31 minutes ago, Caducus46 said:

Kutuzov is ridiculous when fully speeced AA with DFAA. I have a 19 captain on mine that's "mostly" specced for AA, but we all know how disgusting that ship is towards enemy BB's at long range. And I always run DFAA, so enemy CV's, even tier 10, don't bother me.

^This.

I'm less worried about T10 CV's in my Kutuzov than I am in the Missouri or NC....

No russian bias in this game at all!

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I see no mention of the fighter plane consumables in your analysis. What about them?

Nice work otherwise!

..

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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This is interesting, but not particularly useful for actual gameplay. Which would be fine.... except:

 

3 hours ago, Aeries1 said:

Are you a cruiser player looking to clear the sky and protect your fleet?  Perhaps you are a CV captain who wants to know which cruisers really are easy prey? 

 

I clicked the thread with exactly one thought in mind: If this guy says Des Moines is the best T10 AA cruiser, this ranking is a joke.

 

Yeah, Des Moines can put out some insane numbers..... BUT.... 

 

1) Those numbers are dependant on a consumable that lasts 40 seconds with a 2 minute CD. (It'd be a shame if someone.... pulled their planes back)

2) You completely ignore build. (Full AA build means you can't take both SI (must have) and DE (really really nice to have), and taking any T3 skill means you can't take CE (*pssst*you want CE in a Des Moines*)

 

All together basically means no, Des Moines is definitely not the best AA cruiser you can get.

 

The ship you're looking for is Minotaur.

 

It's AA is always insane, and it doesn't need to make massive compromises in it's build to achieve that insane AA.

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22 minutes ago, issm said:

This is interesting, but not particularly useful for actual gameplay. Which would be fine.... except:

 

 

I clicked the thread with exactly one thought in mind: If this guy says Des Moines is the best T10 AA cruiser, this ranking is a joke.

 

Yeah, Des Moines can put out some insane numbers..... BUT.... 

 

1) Those numbers are dependant on a consumable that lasts 40 seconds with a 2 minute CD. (It'd be a shame if someone.... pulled their planes back)

2) You completely ignore build. (Full AA build means you can't take both SI (must have) and DE (really really nice to have), and taking any T3 skill means you can't take CE (*pssst*you want CE in a Des Moines*)

 

All together basically means no, Des Moines is definitely not the best AA cruiser you can get.

 

The ship you're looking for is Minotaur.

 

It's AA is always insane, and it doesn't need to make massive compromises in it's build to achieve that insane AA.

Not to mention, DPS isn't the be-all, end-all.  Range is equally important.  More range gives you more "S" in which to "DP" an incoming strike package, after all.

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Minotaur can have the largest AA bubble and with manual AA for its main batteries, you can start swatting planes well over 8km.

It is an excellent AA support for other ships that may be lacking sufficient AA's

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43 minutes ago, issm said:

This is interesting, but not particularly useful for actual gameplay. Which would be fine.... except:

 

 

I clicked the thread with exactly one thought in mind: If this guy says Des Moines is the best T10 AA cruiser, this ranking is a joke.

 

Yeah, Des Moines can put out some insane numbers..... BUT.... 

 

1) Those numbers are dependant on a consumable that lasts 40 seconds with a 2 minute CD. (It'd be a shame if someone.... pulled their planes back)

2) You completely ignore build. (Full AA build means you can't take both SI (must have) and DE (really really nice to have), and taking any T3 skill means you can't take CE (*pssst*you want CE in a Des Moines*)

 

All together basically means no, Des Moines is definitely not the best AA cruiser you can get.

 

The ship you're looking for is Minotaur.

 

It's AA is always insane, and it doesn't need to make massive compromises in it's build to achieve that insane AA.

^^

this.

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It's all about range, and the USN is lacking there at upper tiers.

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4 hours ago, Aeries1 said:

Pensacola         61(95)[-]           95(148)[444]          58(180)[540]         214(423)[984]       153(328)[984]            1

A chap on Reddit uses a formula of AA value*range2 which captures the improved value of long range AA over short range.

I think it's pretty sensible an approach.

On of the big problems with Pensacola and New Orleans in particular is their comparatively very short long range AA aura. New Orleans' 4.2km is particularly bad at T8.

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59 minutes ago, issm said:

This is interesting, but not particularly useful for actual gameplay. Which would be fine.... except:

 

 

I clicked the thread with exactly one thought in mind: If this guy says Des Moines is the best T10 AA cruiser, this ranking is a joke.

 

Yeah, Des Moines can put out some insane numbers..... BUT.... 

 

1) Those numbers are dependant on a consumable that lasts 40 seconds with a 2 minute CD. (It'd be a shame if someone.... pulled their planes back)

2) You completely ignore build. (Full AA build means you can't take both SI (must have) and DE (really really nice to have), and taking any T3 skill means you can't take CE (*pssst*you want CE in a Des Moines*)



Your second point is quite valid, some ships are significantly easier to spec for AA in than others.  At tier 9+ modules also come into play.  I can't think the USN cruisers will ever want to take the AA gun mod over reload or range.

BUT...

Defensive AA becomes stronger with range, and DM has that in spades.  If you wait until the planes are around 5km, the CV player just cannot win.  Either he continues in with the strike and does poor damage (losing most of his planes in the process), or he pulls out and is missing half his bombers.   Half a strike wing, may I add, is not going to get through any AA aura and do meaningful damage at tier 10, at least not until late midgame.  Having a 7.2km middle range aura opens up much more possibilities. 

While the ranking certainly has issues like all rankings does, I found this one to be better than most.  Minotaur may be the most reliable AA in the game, but she also lacks the sheer stopping power of a DF cruiser.  Bursty AA has it's place  Saying the ranking is a joke just because DM is ranked higher than Mino is rather extreme.

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Not surprised that Donskoi is ranked 1 in T9, but tie with Neptune? I expected Neptune to be slightly better.

I myself know this, since my Donskoi IS an AA spec. It indeed has better AA then T10 Moskva and in fact, a Donskoi running max aa is absolutely brutal on CVs.So great is her max aa in fact that if the mm meta still allowed for 2v2 T10 cvs in the game like in the past, I'd still have nothing to worry about, even if 2 CVs focus all their strike squads on me.

What makes this even better is that most Donskoi capts don't spec it for AA AND most CVs don't expect a Russian cruiser to have some good AA unless its MK.

 

Also, if you included premium cruisers in this list, I would say that Murmansk at T5 has the overall best AA of its tier as far as cruisers go.

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6 hours ago, Aiser50 said:

Not surprised that Donskoi is ranked 1 in T9, but tie with Neptune? I expected Neptune to be slightly better.

 

Neptune is better in practice because Neptune doesn't rely on DFAA, and Neptune can afford to build AA without compromising other abilities.

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6 hours ago, Kenjister said:

Defensive AA becomes stronger with range, and DM has that in spades.  If you wait until the planes are around 5km, the CV player just cannot win.  Either he continues in with the strike and does poor damage (losing most of his planes in the process), or he pulls out and is missing half his bombers.   Half a strike wing, may I add, is not going to get through any AA aura and do meaningful damage at tier 10, at least not until late midgame.  Having a 7.2km middle range aura opens up much more possibilities. 

While the ranking certainly has issues like all rankings does, I found this one to be better than most.  Minotaur may be the most reliable AA in the game, but she also lacks the sheer stopping power of a DF cruiser.  Bursty AA has it's place  Saying the ranking is a joke just because DM is ranked higher than Mino is rather extreme.

 

Unlike Minotaur, Des Moines does not have an air detect range longer than it's AA range. This leaves DM unable to "ambush" planes.

A DM's main weapon against CV attacks isn't it's AA, it's it's reputation. I don't need to build AA in a Des Moines, because hey, I'm a freaking Des Moines. CVs are going to avoid me like the plague no matter what.

 

Minotaur, on the other hand, can't be spotted before it starts going to work on a CV's planes. Minotaur might have some of DM's reputation, but Minotaur can also shred a few planes before the CV starts running.

 

But again, this also means at the end of the day, an AA Minotaur is a far more effective investment of modules and captain points, and you're much more likely to run into an AA Minotaur than an AA Des Moines.

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1 minute ago, issm said:

 

Unlike Minotaur, Des Moines does not have an air detect range longer than it's AA range. This leaves DM unable to "ambush" planes.

A DM's main weapon against CV attacks isn't it's AA, it's it's reputation. I don't need to build AA in a Des Moines, because hey, I'm a freaking Des Moines. CVs are going to avoid me like the plague no matter what.

 

Minotaur, on the other hand, can't be spotted before it starts going to work on a CV's planes. Minotaur might have some of DM's reputation, but Minotaur can also shred a few planes before the CV starts running.

 

But again, this also means at the end of the day, an AA Minotaur is a far more effective investment of modules and captain points, and you're much more likely to run into an AA Minotaur than an AA Des Moines.


Very true.  DM can't really ambush planes, although I'd venture to say that Minotaur won't be doing it too much either due to her highly visible play style.  CVs will avoid both at all costs.

I'd venture to say that this is itself the biggest issue of AA tier lists in particular.  AA is a stat that has massive variance, even on identical ships.  A full AA spec is easily more than 3 times as effective as a surface combat spec, and that's even before you toss in Defensive Fire.  And when AA is properly specced for, it is quite frankly overkill.  You just laugh and watch the ribbons add up.  A CV is not going to risk their entire attack cycle on any ship capable of doing that.
So ultimately, the CV will go by potential and not the reality where DM's AA can be knocked down to near zero by a single HE salvo from a Conqueror, or where a Minotaur forgets to click the incoming squads because they're doing their glass cannon duties.  They just stay far faaaar away.  Like other side of the map levels of far away.

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16 hours ago, Exciton8964 said:

Seems Hindenburg and Zao have pretty strong AA as well.

Oh definitely.  Hindy, Mino, and Zao are all exceptionally nasty AA platforms.  Can vouch for Hindy personally as have had some fun with her in full AA spec.  CV captains are displeased when they try to strike her expecting Hydro instead of DF as their entire strike squads melt.  Much fun.

15 hours ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

 

I see no mention of the fighter plane consumables in your analysis. What about them?

Nice work otherwise!

..

Ehh, that is nearly impossible to factor in.  Yes there is a dps stat for all cruiser mounted fighter planes, but they seem to be piloted by the same drunks that fire off secondary's without the manual skill, as in they don't do much most the time.  Use them more for spotting than protection.

16 hours ago, Yvonne_Swanson said:

you should do this for BBs as well, +1

Will give it a go.  This took quite some time to compile, but BBs would be easier due to not having to factor in Defensive Fire.  Whole lot less calculator time.

 

15 hours ago, issm said:

This is interesting, but not particularly useful for actual gameplay. Which would be fine.... except:

 

 

I clicked the thread with exactly one thought in mind: If this guy says Des Moines is the best T10 AA cruiser, this ranking is a joke.

 

Yeah, Des Moines can put out some insane numbers..... BUT.... 

 

1) Those numbers are dependant on a consumable that lasts 40 seconds with a 2 minute CD. (It'd be a shame if someone.... pulled their planes back)

2) You completely ignore build. (Full AA build means you can't take both SI (must have) and DE (really really nice to have), and taking any T3 skill means you can't take CE (*pssst*you want CE in a Des Moines*)

 

All together basically means no, Des Moines is definitely not the best AA cruiser you can get.

 

The ship you're looking for is Minotaur.

 

It's AA is always insane, and it doesn't need to make massive compromises in it's build to achieve that insane AA.

That's why smart players like me wait for planes to commit to the middle ring before popping DF, by then it's too late.  SI, not a must have, solid cruiser player and only line I have it on is UK for smoke.  When you are hugging islands all game like you do in US cruisers how much are you getting out of CE?  Now that stealth fire is gone, firing from smoke for CA's heavily nerfed full concealment builds aren't the must have they used to be.

1247 > 1074.  Neptune is stronger than Mino, they both have the same 8.6 km capable long range guns and you get double duty with MCAA on Neptune's secondary's which Mino lacks completely.  Mino is stronger in the outer ring, Neptune in the middle.  Double bonus on AAA and 20% more damage, still give it to Neptune between the two, not to say Mino isn't stupidly efficient at killing planes.  Haven't even finished out my Neptune captain and she is already loads of fun, full spec will be hilarious.

As far as DM vs Mino, yes with DF on cooldown Mino has the edge, but not by much damage wise, definitely has that range advantage though of 8.6 vs 7.2.  Take DF out of the equation yep Mino takes it.  To be honest I debated a DM/Mino tie, but at the end of the day she can just never match the raw ability to hit the T button and melt planes like DM can though and that's why she wins.  On this one we agree to disagree.

7 hours ago, Kenjister said:


So ultimately, the CV will go by potential and not the reality where DM's AA can be knocked down to near zero by a single HE salvo from a Conqueror, or where a Minotaur forgets to click the incoming squads because they're doing their glass cannon duties.  They just stay far faaaar away.  Like other side of the map levels of far away.

And this is when they come at my Hindy, much laughter and fun ensue when I press T.  I shouldn't get as much joy from shredding planes, but I can't help it, I just do.

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7 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

That's why smart players like me wait for planes to commit to the middle ring before popping DF, by then it's too late. 

 

A strategy that only works against dumb CVs, in which case, why are you wasting all those skill points?

 

8 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

When you are hugging islands all game like you do in US cruisers how much are you getting out of CE?

 

A lot. Even if you're going to be hugging islands, you have to get there first.

 

CE gives you more latitude to position and reposition

 

Not sure why you're bringing up the smoke firing nerf, it's completely irrelevant in terms of CR. If anything, that nerf makes CE more important, since you need to depend on concealment to get out of sticky situations instead of being able to always rely on a smokescreen.

 

18 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

1247 > 1074.  Neptune is stronger than Mino, they both have the same 8.6 km capable long range guns and you get double duty with MCAA on Neptune's secondary's which Mino lacks completely

 

Right. And what does this mean in terms of build compromises?

 

Taking AFT as well as MFAA means you either have to give up SI, or you have to give up CE. I'm sure you remember how squishy Neptune is. 

 

When your ship is paper, the last thing you want to do is give up concealment or a charge of the super heal in exchange for getting slightly more faceroll AA that's barely ever going to be used, cuz hey, it's a goddamn Neptune. No one who knows what they're doing with a CV is going to willingly go near a Neptune. - assuming you're in game with one to begin with.

 

26 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

Mino is stronger in the outer ring, Neptune in the middle.  Double bonus on AAA and 20% more damage, still give it to Neptune between the two,

 

Your analysis basically ignores the actual ranges.

 

For one thing, Neptune's "mid range" AA is broken into 2 different auras: The DP guns with 7.2km (I think?) upgraded range, and the Bofors with a 5km range. Minotaur's "mid range" AA is loaded entirely into the 7.2km 3" guns.giving them much more time to ope up on the target than Neptune's Bofors - which provides about half of Neptune's mid range DPS, even with the 100% boost to the DP guns.

 

Furthermore, while they both have the same range on the longest range AA, Minotaur's longest range aura is ~35% stronger than Neptunes.

 

Neptune might have better AA in theory than Minotaur, but it requires the enemy planes to get much closer, as well as major compromises in the build. Thus, why, in practice, Minotaur is still the best AA cruiser. This is especially true with any competent CV player, who's going to just nope away as soon as they run into an RNCL's long range AA bubbles. And, well, if they aren't skilled, why the hell are you wasting points going all out to stop them?

 

48 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

To be honest I debated a DM/Mino tie, but at the end of the day she can just never match the raw ability to hit the T button and melt planes like DM can though and that's why she wins.  On this one we agree to disagree.

 

Oh yeah?

 

The real world disagrees.

 

Minotaur shoots down more planes than Des Moines, on every single server.

 

There was only one set of filters in which Des Moines performed better - the 1 day stats for EU, in which Des Moines shot down .1 more planes per match more than Minotaur. 

 

Minotaur had the upper hand in literally every other combination of server and time interval combination.

 

So yeah, there's no contest.

 

Minotaur is objectively the best AA cruiser in the game.

 

(Oh, and Minotaur (significantly) outperforms Neptune as well, despite the fact that Neptune is more likely to see CVs)

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With CVs being a hot topic at the moment thought some might get some use out of this old thread I wrote up.  Going to have to do a rewrite when the new US lines launch in 7.5 though.  Will give me a chance to improve the visual format some.

Much fun can be had with some AA investment, hope it is informative.

Cheers.

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