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AMajor

dd wolfpacks and the use of smoke

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Spent the afternoon watching videos on USN and IJN dds.  I was lucky enough that BoraHarzaGobuchul invited me to division with him for a couple of games.  For those of us with less experience (1500 battles), it is a real solid when someone with 15,000+ battles takes the time to teach.  We really appreciate it.  We divisioned up with 2 Nicholas dds.  He did most of the damage, I was the wingman.  I have a tactics question when in a dd wolfpack and the use of smoke.  In one of the videos from iChase or one of the other WOWs gurus, they talked about defensive and offensive smoke.  I understand defensive smoke (hide when spotted).  I'm not getting the concept of offensive smoke.  How does that work in practice?  Also, what is the best strategy to use when working with another dd?  Should one dd work ahead of the other and pop smoke so the other can come up undetected?  Any gameplay examples would be much appreciated.  I want to work on getting better so that you dd experts invite me to division more often and don't consider me a liability.

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Smoking up near BB's or a mass of enemy ships and shooting from smoke. It's always surprising how many BB's ignore a smokescreen 6 KM away and you can kill them easily. Also allowing other friendly ships use ur smoke screen to hide themselves(do this with a ship with radar and you'll be rewarded greatly. As will he)

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39 minutes ago, _Maho_Nishizumi_212 said:

Smoking up near BB's or a mass of enemy ships and shooting from smoke. It's always surprising how many BB's ignore a smokescreen 6 KM away and you can kill them easily. Also allowing other friendly ships use ur smoke screen to hide themselves(do this with a ship with radar and you'll be rewarded greatly. As will he)

Not sure that smoke really matters much any more to BBs (given the recent changes to smoke and gun blooms), if they're firing their guns, unless you're laying smoke for long range sniping BB's (which frankly, I don't think that I'd do, since it only encourages the sniping even more).  This isn't to say that smoke is useless for BB that want to use it to go dark and/or mask their movements.  But with these recent smoke changes, it doesn't seem like smoke will be all that useful any longer for hiding BBs that want to fire their guns in or behind smoke.

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5 hours ago, AMajor said:

I'm not getting the concept of offensive smoke.  How does that work in practice?  Also, what is the best strategy to use when working with another dd?  Should one dd work ahead of the other and pop smoke so the other can come up undetected?  Any gameplay examples would be much appreciated.  I want to work on getting better so that you dd experts invite me to division more often and don't consider me a liability.

 

The most useful thing I think I can do for offensive smoke is to put friendly light cruisers in it. Their detection isn't TOO bad when shooting in smoke. Their guns can do a lot more damage than mine and I can do a better job of spotting without getting killed than they can.

 

When that isn't an option, if there are some friendlies engaged and spotting enemy ships and I can't safely launch torpedoes, I can put myself in smoke and try and help with guns. You have to make your best guess about how long your spotting will last and if you are likely to be forced out of your smoke by torpedoes or a charging enemy. Spread out your smoke as much as you can and angle yourself to where you think torpedoes will come from so you can dodge them.

 

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I tend to like DD wolf packs on the enemy team.  Wait for them to start smoking and send my torps.  Scored more than a couple double strikes this way.

3x of anything will fail to a balanced division when the skill level between divs is the same.  My clan has crushed several 7x DDs or 1xBB 6xCAs in clan wars.  These sorts of teams give up capabilities that you can exploit.

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13 hours ago, Crucis said:

Not sure that smoke really matters much any more to BBs (given the recent changes to smoke and gun blooms), if they're firing their guns, unless you're laying smoke for long range sniping BB's (which frankly, I don't think that I'd do, since it only encourages the sniping even more).  This isn't to say that smoke is useless for BB that want to use it to go dark and/or mask their movements.  But with these recent smoke changes, it doesn't seem like smoke will be all that useful any longer for hiding BBs that want to fire their guns in or behind smoke.

Smoking them, then going to a flank and spotting can work, right? So they stay hidden and do the dmg, while u keep the reds spotted? Haven't played in a while. Not sure how the changes reworked DD game play exactly. 

Edited by _Maho_Nishizumi_212

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DD's working together is fantastical fun a powerful. When my son was playing the game, we teamed up in the (old) Minekaze's. We basically sailed in  circles taking turns getting in close and launching our  attacks. Waves of torpedos every 45 seconds. We basically drove half the red team into a corner of the map.

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1 hour ago, _Maho_Nishizumi_212 said:

Smoking them, then going to a flank and spotting can work, right? So they stay hidden and do the dmg, while u keep the reds spotted? Haven't played in a while. Not sure how the changes reworked DD game play exactly. 

No, that probably won't work any more.  The changes to smoke are, roughly, that each class (not type) of ship has a concealment penalty assessed to it when it's firing out of or from behind smoke.  And battleships get penalized worst of all, to the point that, short of being smoked up 15-20km away from the enemy, you're probably not going to be able to use smoke as a BB for firing while hidden by that smoke, since the act of firing your guns in a BB will give away your position.  About the most you can do for a BB with smoke is hide it from sight, either to protect it if it's under fire and needs time to escape and heal up or to conceal its movements in general.  In either case, this only works as long as the BB keeps his guns silent.

 

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19 minutes ago, Capt_Mexib said:

DD's working together is fantastical fun a powerful. When my son was playing the game, we teamed up in the (old) Minekaze's. We basically sailed in  circles taking turns getting in close and launching our  attacks. Waves of torpedos every 45 seconds. We basically drove half the red team into a corner of the map.

A division of 2-3 stealthy torp boat DDs can also work together to drop torps on targets from multiple angles, making nearly impossible for the enemy to evade them all.

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On 28/10/2017 at 10:43 AM, Crucis said:

No, that probably won't work any more.  The changes to smoke are, roughly, that each class (not type) of ship has a concealment penalty assessed to it when it's firing out of or from behind smoke.  And battleships get penalized worst of all, to the point that, short of being smoked up 15-20km away from the enemy, you're probably not going to be able to use smoke as a BB for firing while hidden by that smoke, since the act of firing your guns in a BB will give away your position.  About the most you can do for a BB with smoke is hide it from sight, either to protect it if it's under fire and needs time to escape and heal up or to conceal its movements in general.  In either case, this only works as long as the BB keeps his guns silent.

 

RIP. *Fun and engaging* So no more smoking BB's so they can shoot without being shot back? What's the point of offensive DD smoke now??

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6 hours ago, _Maho_Nishizumi_212 said:

RIP. *Fun and engaging* So no more smoking BB's so they can shoot without being shot back? What's the point of offensive DD smoke now??

Offensive smoke as always been a (bovine fecal matter) mechanic from the start.  

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On 10/29/2017 at 5:33 PM, Crucis said:

Offensive smoke as always been a (bovine fecal matter) mechanic from the start.  

Please, at tier X every fourth ship has radar. Every third ship has torpedoes. The counter to that strategy has ALWAYS been nuke the cloud with torpedoes. 

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2 hours ago, 1An0maly1 said:

Please, at tier X every fourth ship has radar. Every third ship has torpedoes. The counter to that strategy has ALWAYS been nuke the cloud with torpedoes. 

I don't give a rat's behind about those things.  I still think that offensive smoke is a (bovine fecal matter) mechanic, regardless of the fact that there are counters.  Just play any ranked battle, and you'll see how it turns every battle from one of fire and maneuver to a battle of hiding behind walls of smoke.  It's boring as all (bleep), and a ridiculous mechanic besides.  Smoke should be a defensive tool and possible a tool for hiding a fleet's maneuvers, not an offensive tool.

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

I don't give a rat's behind about those things.  I still think that offensive smoke is a (bovine fecal matter) mechanic, regardless of the fact that there are counters.  Just play any ranked battle, and you'll see how it turns every battle from one of fire and maneuver to a battle of hiding behind walls of smoke.  It's boring as all (bleep), and a ridiculous mechanic besides.  Smoke should be a defensive tool and possible a tool for hiding a fleet's maneuvers, not an offensive tool.

Please.

When CAs take massive damage from BBs at any range, any angle, the idea of "fire and maneuver" as the predominant strategy is bogus. When BBs can consistently murder DDs via a 5-hit salvo at 10km or more, F&M is bogus. When BB secondaries do huge amounts of damage at extended ranges with NO effort on the player's party, F&M is bogus. When DDs have torpedo hit rates in the single-digits, F&M is bogus.

Position is important, and smoke was/is a major part of that factor.  Cover (hard AND soft) can be used for both offensive and defensive purposes, and furthermore, SHOULD be used for both. 

What's next, Islands being a bogus mechanic because it allowed people to hide behind them?

 

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On 11/1/2017 at 5:36 AM, EAnybody said:

Please.

When CAs take massive damage from BBs at any range, any angle, the idea of "fire and maneuver" as the predominant strategy is bogus. When BBs can consistently murder DDs via a 5-hit salvo at 10km or more, F&M is bogus. When BB secondaries do huge amounts of damage at extended ranges with NO effort on the player's party, F&M is bogus. When DDs have torpedo hit rates in the single-digits, F&M is bogus.

Position is important, and smoke was/is a major part of that factor.  Cover (hard AND soft) can be used for both offensive and defensive purposes, and furthermore, SHOULD be used for both. 

What's next, Islands being a bogus mechanic because it allowed people to hide behind them?

 

Really what he is saying is: Any tactic that beats me is bogus, I want this game to revolve around me. 

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its still quite possible to fire undetected from smoke you just need to plan it a bit better so that the enemy isn't too close when you smoke up but not too far away to just run out of range.  Plus a wonderful side effect of smoking up in a dd and letting the pop guns loose, any BBs heading towards you will often turn to the side to avoid you exposing their juicy citadels to your friends.  One of my favorite tactics to stop a BB attack is to do this.  Just pull up next to a friendly BB hit the smoke and fire away.  Either enemy BB's will continue towards you and take torps or expose their broad side to your friend (and still possibly take torps)

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