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OhTheHumanity

Genuine Question About Counteracting Island Camping

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So I can already tell that this post is probably going to be met with snide/aggressive remarks, and perhaps a "git gud" or two, but I'm just wondering if there are any tactics to counteract people hiding behind islands lobbing shells with no hope of hitting them back.

To first clarify, I understand that using islands as cover is fine. I'm not going to get salty and say that every map should be Ocean so no one can island camp. It's a part of the game and a really useful strategy, one that I employ for repairs, torp runs, and other game essentials. However, what pushed me over the edge and into the forums was a game with a Fletcher, Nagato (of all ships), and Atlanta hugging islands, lobbing shells, and setting fires, while remaining undetected. I could see where the shells were firing from, and there wasn't any smoke laid down, but they weren't visible.

The only thing I could do was just run away (because pushing would have been suicide), but naturally I just burned out as their HE shred my superstructure, all the while they were trying to get a rise out of me in chat.

So if anyone has any tips, I'd appreciate it. Like I said, I know that pushing in and being aggressive is a good way to counteract this, but in most situations, especially early in the match, that's just a death sentence.

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When an enemy ship is allowed to get into a favorable position there isn't much you can do. This is why even large capital ships are moving to the stealth build, they stop firing their guns and move away from the threat before they die. 

Ships who have sub-orbital gun arches love hugging an island and making it rain on slow moving targets, frankly its one of the few times those ships can open up the Daka-Daka can with out much repercussions. 

The Counters to this is either very good situational awareness and/or good team play. If you are a large slow ship you should recognize the types of ships who like to hug islands and sink them before they can reach their favorite island and/or avoid places where these ships can pull off their HE rain of death. 

If you have more stealthy team mates or are one yourself move to flank and attack from stealth while the Daka-Daka ship is focused on burning down the slow moving target. 

Its a game of advantages, you exploit any advantage the enemy opens to you. As a Battleship when a cruiser shows its side you aim for the citadel and hope for no over pens. As a cruisers you hope for the perfect island cover and a stupid team who pushes you one at a time. 

Edited by RedSeaBear
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well island huggers need spotters to work if your DD are gud they will hunt the spotters down for you or push them away, hopefully you can support your DD so they can get to a flank and torp the living sh#T outa the campers to kill or force them to move.... This all takes time though and communication whether or not you get that is whole different story

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Let's think about this from their perspective: "I can sail out and burn down that ship while taking damage, or I can sit here and burn down that ship without taking damage. Hmmm... what's the best option?"

An island-camping ship is a stationary, known-position target. I should know, that's what I am in 90% of my matches. I've seen quite a few threads that appeal to WG to "do something" to make them play differently. But really, the way to affect change in their play is for YOU do something... get out of their fire range is a great start, which then gives them something new to think about: "I can sit and do no damage to anyone while taking no damage." Obviously, that new thing to think about is a powerful motivator for them to MOVE, and it's something YOU'VE done to bring about that change.

@RedSeaBear gives great suggestions of alternative methods of rooting them out (stealth approaches and flankings).

Camping is like a SWAT team member peeking around a corner against aggressive and deadly opponents. We would think him a moron to just run out in the open shooting while being hit by multiple enemies.

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i don't know because i wasn't in the match. but from what you've said, it sounds like you were over extended and out of reach of your team. if that was the case, there was no chance for you to come out on top of that situation because you had no one to counter their teamwork with teamwork of your own.

 

in the end, this is a team game. yeah, most matches are 12 solo players vs 12 solo players. but when you run across a team that is actually working together, it takes teamwork to take them down. you'll get nowhere if you're trying to take them all on alone.

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If they are hiding behind an island they need a spotter to have line of sight on you. One possibility is to kill the spotting ship.

Conversely a friendly ship could gain line of sight on them...teamwork!

..

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1) if you have CV, DBs or TBs can go after an island camper/hider.

2) maybe a DD can zip around & torp them.

3) a C or BB can get line of sight.

 These are other ways to deal with this.

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1 hour ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

 

If they are hiding behind an island they need a spotter to have line of sight on you. One possibility is to kill the spotting ship.

Conversely a friendly ship could gain line of sight on them...teamwork!

..

Um, Doctor remember that thing that was in your eye? has returned. Just wanted you to realize it was there again.  

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While often very effective, island camping is an extremely limiting strategy, and if you know what you are doing, you can take advantage of those limitations.

1) There are only a few islands and positions on each map suitable for island camping. If you see ships on the enemy team list that like to camp, you can predict where they're going to be and move to counter these points.

2) Ships which rely on island camping usually have very high shell arcs, making it very difficult for them to hit anything at range. Even BBs can dodge most of their shells at +15km.

3) Despite the high shell arcs, few ships can hit something over an island at less than 10km or so (this varies a bit between ships and different islands). This means that you could try charging them down and hiding behind the same island as they are.

4) Blind firing. If the enemy ship is some distance behind the island it may be possible for you to hit them by aiming at their muzzle flashes, especially if they are a high fire rate cruiser like the Atlanta. You can find guides on how to do this effectively on youtube.

5) Spotting. Island camping ships have no defence against being spotted by aircraft or radar. If you have either, launch it while within a few km of their position and they should get lit up, stationary and broadside for all to see.

6) Spotting again. Island campers need someone else to spot for them, and by avoiding or killing those players you can often make the campers completely ineffective. If things get too hot for you, it is often possible to simply stop shooting, fall out of detection, and sail away.

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It sucks that the aiming recticle targets the island if the ship isn't spotted, maybe WG should change this because its kind of unrealistic ( a real ship would have firing solutions, the island wouldn't make a difference other then being in the way)... Also, it'd be awesome if you could control your own gun arcs, because that's something a ship could actually do depending on how high the barrel could be angled in the turret... You can't change the velocity of the shell but you could fire higher, it'll arc up more and fall closer because of obvious physics reasons...perfect for island campers.

 

But anyway, you can send up a spotter plane if you have one, which will allow you to target the water where the ship is shooting from.

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11 hours ago, MzFortune58 said:

Um, Doctor remember that thing that was in your eye? has returned. Just wanted you to realize it was there again.  

 

Ah, thank you so much my friend. I did not notice because eyes have become obsolete...these days I only use RADAR.

..

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I used to do just that with Cleveland. I'm of the (old) school, where the differences between cover and concealment was drilled.

Getting back on point. 

 

Le'ts tackle this from the opposite perspective. Maybe that will give you another insight for you to take advantage of.

 

After realising that when playing with a Cleveland, due to her natural weakness. I really needed to find an optimal position to deal damage for ships in the firing ranges. If I had a destroyer providing me with smoke concealment, it was great. If not, I had to find alternate means to seek a temporary 'safe place'. 

The majority of the times when I was pushed into the open are these;

  • Destroyer pushing me off an area.
  • Destroyer sending torps into my position.
  • Any ship that flanks, there by leaving me vulnerable to being "seen" or being shot at.
  • Battleship that is pushing aggressively into my position.
  • Battleships that fires into my position from range to plunge their projectiles.
  • Enemy ships moving out of my effective firing range, forcing me to abandon my 'safe spot'.
  • A Cap area that is not contested/left open by the enemy.

Out of the above, I would say personally. The primary reason that places me into an open environment (as well as an effective psychological multiplier); when a Battleship rushes me. Worse with friend in tow of her. 

 

 

 

 

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I just played a game where there were 2 DD's behind and island, lobbing shells and remaining 100% undetected.  So I took my Mahan (Tier 7 US DD), headed undetected directly towards the island.  When I was about 2.5k away from them, scooted around and was facing their backside.  One set of tubes per parked DD, two quick DD kills.  They were so focused, that when I came around the small island, they were zoomed in and no warning.  KaBlamo!

A few minutes later, did the same to a cruiser.  An invisible charge, on the opposite side of their island from where they were camping.  Good morning! 

So, for my US DD's to counter a camper lobbing shells at team mates,

1.  Ensure that the spotter is taken out.  Then need a ship or plane to spot for them.

2.  Advance undetected and smack the dickens out of them!

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On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 8:56 AM, HorrorRoach said:

It sucks that the aiming recticle targets the island if the ship isn't spotted, maybe WG should change this because its kind of unrealistic ( a real ship would have firing solutions, the island wouldn't make a difference other then being in the way)... Also, it'd be awesome if you could control your own gun arcs, because that's something a ship could actually do depending on how high the barrel could be angled in the turret... You can't change the velocity of the shell but you could fire higher, it'll arc up more and fall closer because of obvious physics reasons...perfect for island campers.

 

But anyway, you can send up a spotter plane if you have one, which will allow you to target the water where the ship is shooting from.

Actually, you are mistaken to a degree.  There are two different gun behaviors when it comes to targeting.  If the target is visible and you are locked onto the target, your guns automatically elevate based on your target's distance and all reticle movement is relative to the target causing your guns to adjust elevation accordingly.

If you are not locked onto a target because it is not visible (or for any other reason), reticle movement is relative to the map.  Your guns elevate and move according to where your reticle is pointing.

Thus, if you are locked onto a target behind an island, your guns will attempt to shoot over the island to hit it if they can despite the fact that your reticle is aiming at the ship behind the island.  If you lose that target lock, your shells don't hit the island because your guns start targeting the island instead.  They hit the island because they return to targeting relative to your reticle rather than the target, and your reticle is pointing at the island.

If, instead, you aim your reticle just above the ridgeline rather than at the spot behind the island where the ship was, your shells will shoot over the ridgeline, not at the island, and if the shell arc can hit the target, you can still hit the target, and the higher your natural shell arc, the closer to the island you can hit this way.

 

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bbs, go around, cruisers dont have your range. small island, go the other way. smart team, cr bomb them out, or a gutsy dd. bbs i wouldnt worry about them if ur out of their range. go somewhere else on the map where u'll be more useful rather than take hits for nothing. what i would do, unless others have better strats.

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I commented on another thread on countering the island camping meta but in a nut shell.. the best way to couter it is for the team your on to stay mobile and force the campers to shift position.  This does however take team work and co-ordination and requires player to get over the fear of getting shot at and hit.  Not the easiest thing to accomplish in random battles!   

 

What I can suggest is to make sure you support your teams DD's that are moving to where they can get torps on the campers.. Long range Destroyer torps are THE single best way to deal with them with carrier air strikes running a close second (very situational though!).  I play in supremacy league and island camping is a very strong meta there. But time and again that meta is defeated by the team that's able to get on a flank where they have a clear line of fire.    After that its just breaking the opposing player will.   You must "discomfit" the campers and make their position untenable.. or at least make them think it's untenable and unsustainable.. that'll get em to move.  

 

Look at the map. look at the approaches to their position.. which route gives you cover from their fire (rendering the offensive capability of their positioning useless) while not overly exposing yourself to fire from other ships?  Be aware of what out there and what has to potential to fire on you while you shift position.

 

And also bear in mind that the island cover has to sides to it.. yes, they have cover but it also can mask them from being able to shoot!  Be where they cannot shoot.  Battleships especially are more vulnerable then they know..to shoot they must for a moment at least come out from behind that cover and if your waiting for it several ships can potentially punish them while they're exposed to get their own shots off.

 

Use their island cover against them.  And never go it alone.  Be patient. if its down to a one on one they've got to expose them selves to shoot. hold some guns back.  Fire a single turret.. the vast majority of players will always assume you've fired everything and will then typically come out and spend more time exposed.  This is one of my absolutely favorite things to do when driving the IJN Ishizuchi, Amagi, Kii, or Fuso.  and I've pranged many a BB camper doing it.  They get real cautious after that.  

 

Island camping is more of a defensive tactic then an offensive one.   Knowing this, realizing this allowes you to take advantage of their error.  It's a mind set and inherited from World of Tanks (ie: side scraping) but unlike tanks, these ships react to control imputs much much slower.  Even DD's are slugs compared to ground vehicles.  Also.. its can be worth your wile to let them camp unchallanged while you strip the supporting ships away, their teams Destroyers and Cruisers.  Once their support is gone as long as you still have your supporting smaller ships they're meat on the table and damage to farm.  

 

"Oh look!  Island Campers.. No worries, we'll farm them last!" 

 

It's all in the mind set.  

 

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