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ReddNekk

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I sucketh most heinously with DDs! I'm a huge DD spud! I dusted off Gallant, my one and only DD. Tried her out in a few Co-Ops, felt warm and fuzzy. So I decided to go for some Random Battles, and fought 7. I only done good in ONE of those 7 battles. :Smile_sad:

BTW, I've read posts and watched videos about DDriving 'til my eyes were bleeding, and tried to apply what I learned in battles and no cigar.

So I aint going to waste anymore team spots with a DD that I'm driving. My hat's off to you folks who excel in them. :Smile_honoring: (I'll stick with Cruisers as my main, I do a lot better)

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Well, Gallant has some good qualities, but isn't the sharpest instrument for learning the DD trade. for torps you're gonna want Fubuki, for guns, Gnevny, for a little of everything, Mahan or Gaede (I'm not a big Gaede fan, but it has a knack for staying alive). 

Edited by LancerUlysses

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I'm really liking the gaede right now I'm using her 150s. Most cruisers don't expect to be cit by a dd ?

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If you want to learn the DD trade, go back down to Wakatake or Umikaze. First learn how to torp. Umikaze especially, with its excellent slow long-range torps, can teach you how to use torps as area control devices and how to anticipate where ships will be a half a minute from launch time. A low tier DD can also teach you situational awareness, and to find that moment when the enemy's cap is open and you can take it, or at least sit on it and make them lose ships in order to kill you.

After that, I would go up the IJN line first. Save XP and free XP past Mutsuki and Hatsu after a few games in them, go directly to Kag and Yugumo. Yug with torp boosters is probably the best pure torp boat in the game. You can learn a lot gunboating in an IJN DD as well. I gunboat a lot in Akatsuki, and have had games in which i did 40K damage, all guns. Missed all my torps.

 

After that, switch to the US DDs, particularly Clemson. Clemson is basically OP and a favorite of seal clubbers. I get in that boat for therapy now, though I played many games in it when I sucked. Clemson will teach you how to play a US DD, then climb that line to Fletcher, probably the best all-around DD in the game. Gearing is pretty much a side-grade.

 

After you have learned to torp and gunboat, then climb the German line. The German line requires some experience, because it has no outstanding features like IJN torps or Russian guns and it often seems like more work to get damage out of that line, which WG did a stellar job balancing. The Z-46 and Z-52 at the top of that line are both good boats.

 

I'd save the Russians for last. Gunboating Russian DDs seem easy, but some people find them very difficult....

Edited by Taichunger
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33 minutes ago, LancerUlysses said:

Well, Gallant has some good qualities, but isn't the sharpest instrument for learning the DD trade. for torps you're gonna want Fubuki, for guns, Gnevny, for a little of everything, Mahan or Gaede (I'm not a big Gaede fan, but it has a knack for staying alive). 

 

I'd actually advise that if your having trouble with DD's, go into the low tiers with the Sampson or the V-25 and for learning the torpedo sniper role, practice on the Umikaze.  All of these are good teachers in the basic art of dd play. 

 

Going right for the Gallant to begin with is probably a mistake.  No matter how many video's you watch, you don't have the experience that a typical tier V DD player has learned in those lower tiered ships.  There really is no substitute for doing. 

Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel

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46 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

So I aint going to waste anymore team spots with a DD that I'm driving. My hat's off to you folks who excel in them. :Smile_honoring: (I'll stick with Cruisers as my main, I do a lot better)

I wouldn't write off DD's based on your experience with the Gallant, a DD that has a very narrow window of success and a tier 6 ( unfavorable MM ) too boot.  Since you like to play cruisers the most, I would suggest going up the Russian DD line all the way to the Khabarovsk, keeping the Gnevny and the Kiev along the way as nice examples of the line ( tier 5 premium Gremyaschy is no longer available, but is sublime - the Leningrad at tier 7 is quite nice though, and is sold regularly ). 

Here is the description of the Russian DD line from the wiki:

Quote

Russian destroyers are an oddity; they frequently feel as if they have the powerful, fast-firing guns of their American counterparts mounted in the arduously slow-turning turrets of the Japanese destroyer line. However, that is where the similarities end; Russian destroyers excel at long- to mid-range gunnery where they can keep their enemies at an arms' length. Their guns often fire out at similar or longer ranges than their American counterparts, but have flatter firing arcs and faster shell velocities, allowing them to snipe distant targets and even citadel lightly armored cruisers (since players can reliably fire at their broadsides at medium ranges, something that American destroyers struggle with). Most of the ships in this class will reach speeds of up to 43 knots, making many of them the fastest ships in their tiers, but their maneuverability and concealment values are lackluster in comparison. Coupled with their slow turret turning speeds, Russian destroyers will struggle against the American destroyers in a close-range gunnery knife fight. Their torpedoes also leave much to be desired; the miserable effective range of 4.0 km persists until Tier VIII, and they will never exceed 10.0 km range even at top-tier; on the bright side, with fast speeds of 65-70 knots and a good number of 9 or 10 torpedo tubes on most destroyers, audacious captains can pull off spectacular ambushes or shotgun engagements (just don't forget about the minimum arming distance).

At the top tiers, they play more like small light cruisers than they do conventional destroyers - something that you should feel more comfortable with based on your enjoyment of cruiser gameplay.

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20 minutes ago, Kunra_1 said:

I'm really liking the gaede right now I'm using her 150s. Most cruisers don't expect to be cit by a dd ?

I liked the Gaede, though I didn't like the 150's, which I thought took way too long to reload for their caliber. And while you are right when you say cruisers aren't expecting to be hit (citadeled even) by a DD, being close enough to a cruiser to accomplish that always seemed like a mistake, and usually involved me getting bashed just as hard as the CL, which I can ill afford. I did like the way her 128's worked with AP, good results in penning cruisers and a much better rate of fire, but very effective against DD's with HE, especially with DE as a Captain's skill.

My opinion.

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18 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

First learn how to torp. Umikaze especially, with its excellent slow long-range torps, can teach you

This is good advice; and a very good choice of a first DD.

19 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

After that, I would go up the IJN line first. Save XP and free XP past Mutsuki and Hatsu after a few games in them, go directly to Kag and Yugumo.

My opinion differs here, because while I agree that if you like torping then the IJN DD line is the way to go, I don't think you should free XP your way through ships. Mutsuki can be (will be?) a pain to grind through, but Hatsuharu isn't; @Pete_Darling and I had quite a few discussions about her during last season's Ranked Battles; she did surprisingly well. Kagero should be much better than she is with her detection and torp choices; but she isn't and was always difficult for me to play. Yugumo is outstanding and the real gem of the IJN DD line.

After the IJN line, I would suggest the German line, which ends with two outstanding ships and will teach you the balance of guns vs torps in DD play. The USN DD's play very similar, but they really have crap gun arcs which limits their usefulness at range.

My opinion.

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29 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Mutsuki can be (will be?) a pain to grind through, but Hatsuharu isn't;

 

Mutsuki is only a drag because players try to use it like anything else... torping and shooting at anything that moves. Mutsuki should be used like a pure scout. Spotting the enemy, and only attempting to cap unopposed, or with overwhelming support.

 

With CE she just about has the best Concealment for her Tier, and the only things you shouldn't see first would be another Mutsuki, or one of the lower-tier IJN destroyers.

 

Mutsuki's torps are for area demnial or opportunity attacks. If you're so inclined, she is an excellent ambush destroyer because of her concealment; but you have to have map awareness and the ability to effectively use terrain to get close. Once you do though, her torps can murder just about anything with a hit or two; and a battleship that eats all six is going to be in very, very bad shape at best, or on the bottom.

 

Mutsuki's guns... 'cork-guns' to put it politely... The traverse is lubricated with sand and mollasses, the reload is slow, and there's only two of them; but they still shouldn't be neglected. There have been many large ships I've started fires on, and many badly wounded ships I've finished off with those 'cork-guns.'

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DD's in port by order of fun (that I still have in port):

 

1: Shimakaze

2. Yugumo

3. Benson

4. Fletcher

5. V-25

6. Kamikaze R

7. V-170

8. Akatsuki

9. Hatsuharu

10. Fubuki

 

I have many other DD's to but @Umikami is correct Hatsu can hold her own. Gaede was okay but a pain. Farragut was alright. Gallant is a tough ship to crack and I would not play it without a ton of experience. If I had to pick an "easy" line to play I would go for USN or German. IJN takes a lot of thinking and I have no use for the Russian line (Have Trashcan but I never play it). 

 

@Taichunger It's all opinion but Hatsu is fine at tier 6 and will net you Shirat/Akizuki not Yugumo

 

As to the OP - IF you don't play DD's you will suck. You keep playing them you will figure it out. Took me 2500 games to be Okay.  

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You really need to start at the bottom and work your way up.  Galant is a good ship, but you're jumping into T6 with no experience.  As you have found out, DD's and cruisers play very differently.

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It's like an FPS game.

I'll watch folks parkour all over the place - can I? Nah Hopeless.

They know every single "spot" to perform x, y or z action. Do I? Nah Hopeless!

A grasp of vision mechanics, physics of the game, statistics of all weaps/armors/tolerances and so on.. Is it possible for me to retain this? Nah I am bloody HOPELESS!

I'm a very linear thinker. The folks who are REALLY good at DDs are probably chess players at heart. They've a sense of strategy and an innate "awareness" of mechanics. They see things many steps ahead of a mere mortal like myself. Their eyes are wide open to the game and all the players actions shaping it - then they step in and make something happen! They'll change the game totally, cross the map in a leap & bound and fart out damned rainbows as they cross your bow, dodging round after round fired at them, dazzling you with the sight in order to distract you from the fishies they've got coming in from your blindside or the ones they've planted in your backside. Devlish ninjas...

Anyway, I've utmost respect for those folks who walk the Warships razor's edge, and do it darned well.

Don't feel bad - we're in the same boat!

Edited by Zyu
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5 hours ago, BiggieD61 said:

I wouldn't write off DD's based on your experience with the Gallant, a DD that has a very narrow window of success and a tier 6

I think that folks have misunderstood me. Gallant aint the only DD I've played. I've run the US and German DD lines to tier 5, the Roo-Shin and IJN DD lines to tier 4. I gave up on DDs almost a year ago but decided today to try out DDs again. And discovered why I dropped DD play last year. :Smile-_tongue:

As the saying goes; "A man's just got to know his limitations!"

I greatly appreciate the good advice from you folks. :Smile_honoring:

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I'm in the same boat.  I still try DD's once in a while.  But I truly am bad at them.  I pick them up from time to time, but not on a consistent basis.  Perhaps I should just dedicate some time to just playing DD's to try to get the hang of them.  Future work I guess.

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I think trying to emulate some of the videos of the folks who are very good at dds is not the best idea, certainly some reaction speeds etc for some of those videos are above what I could copy. However - I have found some simple steps that work for me that have made me passable with DDs, and perfect ship handling is far from my forte.

 

So here are the things I have found to produce results:

 

1:  Contest caps - as in in the very first second of the match you go to the nearest cap, or the second nearest if for some reason you cant go to the closes one, and you try to cap. If you must run fine, but run to another cap to take, come right back to take the one you were spooked from.

 

2:  See smoke? Torp smoke. ( conversely if in smoke expect torps, so pre-turn your ship before they come and sit angled away not perpendicular to the inevitable top wall)

 

3: Fight other dds - keeping other dds occupied keeps them from torping your fleet and capping. 

 

4: After the game develops keep and eye out - are any caps not guarded? Take them!

 

That is it. In short - shoot dds, take caps, smoke is where torpedoes should be. Keeping it simple has been productive for me personally.

 

 

 

Edited by gloom13

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18 hours ago, Taichunger said:

If you want to learn the DD trade, go back down to Wakatake or Umikaze. First learn how to torp. Umikaze especially, with its excellent slow long-range torps, can teach you how to use torps as area control devices and how to anticipate where ships will be a half a minute from launch time. A low tier DD can also teach you situational awareness, and to find that moment when the enemy's cap is open and you can take it, or at least sit on it and make them lose ships in order to kill you.

After that, I would go up the IJN line first. Save XP and free XP past Mutsuki and Hatsu after a few games in them, go directly to Kag and Yugumo. Yug with torp boosters is probably the best pure torp boat in the game. You can learn a lot gunboating in an IJN DD as well. I gunboat a lot in Akatsuki, and have had games in which i did 40K damage, all guns. Missed all my torps.

 

After that, switch to the US DDs, particularly Clemson. Clemson is basically OP and a favorite of seal clubbers. I get in that boat for therapy now, though I played many games in it when I sucked. Clemson will teach you how to play a US DD, then climb that line to Fletcher, probably the best all-around DD in the game. Gearing is pretty much a side-grade.

 

After you have learned to torp and gunboat, then climb the German line. The German line requires some experience, because it has no outstanding features like IJN torps or Russian guns and it often seems like more work to get damage out of that line, which WG did a stellar job balancing. The Z-46 and Z-52 at the top of that line are both good boats.

 

I'd save the Russians for last. Gunboating Russian DDs seem easy, but some people find them very difficult....

 

This man deserves a rep. Well written sir.

 

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Dear OP, as one of those apparenttly mighty doggone few who have learned the way ..of a at least some of the DD's (IJN Line!) I salute you.  I acknowledged the agony you feel and share with you that it is much the same for me when the "Cruiser" is substituted for "Destroyer"   If I enter a match in a cruiser and did nothing at all, it would be an improvement in my cruiser play!

 

 

It wasn't always so.. once I did passibly well in cruisers and my Furutaka driving inspired grown men to weep, and ladies to swoon at it's precision, economy of motion, and beauty.  Poems were written and told and many were the tales shared of it. But those days passed long ago (about ohh 11 months)  leaving me my Battle ships (which I'm not half bad in) and Destroyers..(Carriers?.. I don't even go there!)

 

Take you cruisers and go forth and be mighty.  Cuz when all else is, go with where yer strong!

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff

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19 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

I sucketh most heinously with DDs! I'm a huge DD spud! I dusted off Gallant, my one and only DD. Tried her out in a few Co-Ops, felt warm and fuzzy. So I decided to go for some Random Battles, and fought 7. I only done good in ONE of those 7 battles. :Smile_sad:

BTW, I've read posts and watched videos about DDriving 'til my eyes were bleeding, and tried to apply what I learned in battles and no cigar.

So I aint going to waste anymore team spots with a DD that I'm driving. My hat's off to you folks who excel in them. :Smile_honoring: (I'll stick with Cruisers as my main, I do a lot better)

 

13 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

I think that folks have misunderstood me. Gallant aint the only DD I've played. I've run the US and German DD lines to tier 5, the Roo-Shin and IJN DD lines to tier 4. I gave up on DDs almost a year ago but decided today to try out DDs again. And discovered why I dropped DD play last year. :Smile-_tongue:

As the saying goes; "A man's just got to know his limitations!"

I greatly appreciate the good advice from you folks. :Smile_honoring:

 

8 hours ago, ZARDOZ_II said:

I'm in the same boat.  I still try DD's once in a while.  But I truly am bad at them.  I pick them up from time to time, but not on a consistent basis.  Perhaps I should just dedicate some time to just playing DD's to try to get the hang of them.  Future work I guess.

 

Nah, no way y'all can be worse than me. I checked your stats ReddNekk and at least you are close to 50% WR in DDs. Here are my pitiful stats in PvP.

 

Wm0DVVX.jpg

 

THAT is bad. I decided I'm not taking a DD into PvP again until I get better and I'll start low tier. I have recently figured out the Smith in Co-op and I'm having a lot of fun with it, but T5ish is my skill cap on DD's right now. When I fill in the Minsk and get good at the Ognevoi I got in the RU DD split, then I might think about taking a low tier DD into PvP for a spin.

 

pFgYVhh.jpg

 

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2 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

THAT is bad. I decided I'm not taking a DD into PvP again until I get better and I'll start low tier. I have recently figured out the Smith in Co-op and I'm having a lot of fun with it, but T5ish is my skill cap on DD's right now. When I fill in the Minsk and get good at the Ognevoi I got in the RU DD split, then I might think about taking a low tier DD into PvP for a spin.

 

You want a fun DD trainer then get V-25. Nobody can hit that thing so you have time to practice. I love it!! 

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4 minutes ago, Pete_Darling said:

 

You want a fun DD trainer then get V-25. Nobody can hit that thing so you have time to practice. I love it!! 

 

I remember it was fun. It's still in port with a 3 pt captain. I am at T5 in every DD line, except for the T6 Farragut and Gnevny. I also have the T7 Sims, Leningrad & Blyskawica (all not used much) and the T8 Loyang (haven't even played in PvE), but my DD skills are lacking. I know what I should be doing, but I usually lose focus, overextend and get sunk. I like the BBs and CL/CAs much better right now. But I'll get there eventually.

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1 hour ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

I remember it was fun. It's still in port with a 3 pt captain. I am at T5 in every DD line, except for the T6 Farragut and Gnevny. I also have the T7 Sims, Leningrad & Blyskawica (all not used much) and the T8 Loyang (haven't even played in PvE), but my DD skills are lacking. I know what I should be doing, but I usually lose focus, overextend and get sunk. I like the BBs and CL/CAs much better right now. But I'll get there eventually.

 

With the buffs coming to T-22 it should be fun. I had Kagero, Trachcan, and Benson before all the splits and mods so I'm a bit fuzzy on the current low tiers other than the Germans (I do have Wakatake and V-25 still as well as some Premiums). Sims well it's fun, not Benson fun, but it is difficult to master. I find most of the Premium DD's can be lackluster. They all have strengths and offer different things but usually have 1 crap weakness that makes them tricky. Ones I have:

 

- Tachibana - The little machine gun that could - Fun

- Kamikaze R - Well yea, I have had Kraken's in which I took no damage to my ship - Fun

- Anshan - Not a ship for me but going back to it - Meh (RedSeaBear would be mad about that comment)

- Gallant - Tricky, slow torp reloads and the guns are okay - Good ship but can be frustrating 

- Sims - Crap Benson torps and 4 guns so lower DPM, higher detection but turns like a Corvette - Good ship but has an interesting play style

- Harekaze - well you can make it what you want basically - Good ship but needs a specific captain 

 

One of the ways I improved my DD play was playing IJN's (or any other nation for that matter) with no smoke, just don't use it for yourself. It teaches you to position and use land to cover. Also teaches the wiggle wiggle while under fire. Pick one DD and play only it with the same captain, if it's a Premium, until you consistently place near the top of your team. Don't play PvE because only a small percentage of the skills you learn are useful in PvP but 98% of PvP skills will let you seal club in PvE. Look at your stats as your goal not anyone else. In my Shima over 100 battles I'm on the high end of the server average so if I want to improve I need to beat my score not the server but vise versa in Trashcan I suck so I'm not shooting for the server average I'm looking to beat MY average. 

 

Number 1 thing people forget is WE ALL SUCK!! We have all had to learn and try to become better. It's not that we are a bunch of glue eating toddlers but each ship, class and nation is different. It's all about repetition and learning.  

Edited by Pete_Darling

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11 minutes ago, Pete_Darling said:

 

With the buffs coming to T-22 it should be fun. I had Kagero, Trachcan, and Benson before all the splits and mods so I'm a bit fuzzy on the current low tiers other than the Germans (I do have Wakatake and V-25 still as well as some Premiums). Sims well it's fun, not Benson fun, but it is difficult to master. I find most of the Premium DD's can be lackluster. They all have strengths and offer different things but usually have 1 crap weakness that makes them tricky. Ones I have:

 

- Tachibana - The little machine gun that could - Fun

- Kamikaze R - Well yea, I have had Kraken's in which I took no damage to my ship - Fun

- Anshan - Not a ship for me but going back to it - Meh (RedSeaBear would be mad about that comment)

- Gallant - Tricky, slow torp reloads and the guns are okay - Good ship but can be frustrating 

- Sims - Crap Benson torps and 4 guns so lower DPM, higher detection but turns like a Corvette - Good ship but has an interesting play style

- Harekaze - well you can make it what you want basically - Good ship but needs a specific captain 

 

One of the ways I improved my DD play was playing IJN's (or any other nation for that matter) with no smoke, just don't use it for yourself. It teaches you to position and use land to cover. Also teaches the wiggle wiggle while under fire. Pick one DD and play only it with the same captain, if it's a Premium, until you consistently place near the top of your team. Don't play PvE because only a small percentage of the skills you learn are useful in PvP but 98% of PvP skills will let you seal club in PvE. Look at your as your goal not anyone else. In my Shima over 100 battles I'm on the high end of the server average so if I want to improve I need to beat my score not the server but vise versa in Trashcan I suck so I'm not shooting for the server average I'm looking to beat MY average. 

 

Number 1 thing people forget is WE ALL SUCK!! We have all had to learn and try to become better. It's not that we are a bunch of glue eating toddlers but each ship, class and nation is different. It's all about repetition and learning.  

 

Thank you for the info. Didn't know that the T-22 was getting buffs and since I'm still grinding it that is good. I didn't have a chance at the Kamikaze R, but I got the Fujin and Kamikaze in the big Thanksgiving bundle. I'll work on PvP type skills for DDs, but I play 10-12 PvE battles for every PvP I play. I only really play PvP for events and missions that I feel are worth it. Playing PvP all the time is too much work for me and not enough fun. PvE is way more relaxed and friendly so it is more fun to me even with the slower grind. I rarely play just one ship now unless I'm grinding it hard for some reason. I more often play for first win bonuses since the XP in PvE is so low. 

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