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devilman275

IJN torp

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So, after countless deleting from BB ( 15 000 per shell on average 30~ sec reload)

can we please get our torpedo spotting distance back ? every other DD is better at torping than IJN 

sure they do lots of damage (24 000 raw 120~sec reload) but its irelevant if you cant hit anything unless the moon is aligned with the 3rd sun and the obvious mistake someone made to be hit by those 


and position is useless when most BB can outrun you in a straight line  and most ship has now some form of radar or sonar making 8km torp useless and 10 km torp painful

oh and engine damage 

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Agreed unless you catch someone not paying attention, you don't tend to hit to many these days. People are discovering the W A S D hacks.....

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How is a single BB shell hitting you for 15,000 damage in an IJN destroyer aside from a detonation?

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19 minutes ago, devilman275 said:

"and position is useless when most BB can outrun you in a straight line  and most ship has now some form of radar or sonar making 8km torp useless and 10 km torp painful"

oh and engine damage 

... Catapult planes for almost every ship, hydro, radar, CV planes, bombers, Captain Torpedo awareness skill, Module to enhance the acquisition range in 50%....

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2 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

How is a single BB shell hitting you for 15,000 damage in an IJN destroyer aside from a detonation?

no im comparing damage potential 

ant to enhance the difference 

a shell take at max 14sec to target 
a torp 30-40sec 

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All DDs go faster than BBs in a straight line.

But only if you are smart enough to run parallel to them, instead of letting them intersect you.

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22 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

All DDs go faster than BBs in a straight line.

But only if you are smart enough to run parallel to them, instead of letting them intersect you.

Only if the map is smart enough to give you that option...

I've been pushed up against the edge of the map and unable to run directly away from BB's on many occasions...

Edited by Thraxian

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40 minutes ago, Thraxian said:

Only if the map is smart enough to give you that option...

I've been pushed up against the edge of the map and unable to run directly away from BB's on many occasions...

 

That's not the map's fault.

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Most of the issues I see with people doing poor in IJN DDs is they launch from very poor angles.  Work on your patience to get a good shot, to get in a good position spend most of the game looking at your mini map and constantly be moving to either an objective, or a launch point.

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48 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Most of the issues I see with people doing poor in IJN DDs is they launch from very poor angles.  Work on your patience to get a good shot, to get in a good position spend most of the game looking at your mini map and constantly be moving to either an objective, or a launch point.

this doesn't change the fact that most IJN torp still have huge detection.

of cos, positioning and patience help.

but it is very discouraging when a BB go straight line for minute, and never engage WASD hack until he see it, and still able to dodge 60% of the torp salvo.

really.....it hurt when i see New Mexico and Arizona dodge 6/8 torps and take only 2 of them...and RNG decided to not give them a single flood.

 

Oh....and why do IJN torp need such a huge detection, when fletcher's torp go almost as quick, do almost as much damage, but with much smaller detection. what is the logic behind that ?

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1 hour ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Most of the issues I see with people doing poor in IJN DDs is they launch from very poor angles.  Work on your patience to get a good shot, to get in a good position spend most of the game looking at your mini map and constantly be moving to either an objective, or a launch point.

I really like it when I get a perfect 85-90d torp salvo on a BB, from <8km out, and then, thanks to the torps being Type 90's with horrible detection range, the BB is able to do a pirouette through them.

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Just now, MrDeaf said:

I really like it when I get a perfect 85-90d torp salvo on a BB, from <8km out, and then, thanks to the torps being Type 90's with horrible detection range, the BB is able to do a pirouette through them.

^ someone knows what i am talking about!!

Type 90 is the second worse IJN DD torp after Shimakaze's 20km torp in terms of reaction time.

 

WG need to bring the reaction time down for IJN torp (most other nation's torp in game are below 8sec, and most IJN torps are more than 9 sec just if any one wonder)

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11 hours ago, devilman275 said:

So, after countless deleting from BB ( 15 000 per shell on average 30~ sec reload)

can we please get our torpedo spotting distance back ? every other DD is better at torping than IJN 

sure they do lots of damage (24 000 raw 120~sec reload) but its irelevant if you cant hit anything unless the moon is aligned with the 3rd sun and the obvious mistake someone made to be hit by those 


and position is useless when most BB can outrun you in a straight line  and most ship has now some form of radar or sonar making 8km torp useless and 10 km torp painful

oh and engine damage 

 

Uhh, it is absolutely relevant how much damage the torps do because the average number of torpedo hits for most DDs in a tier is basically the same in spite of the spotting distance difference.  The problem there sits between the keyboard and chair.

 

A perfect example is the often cited "Gearing vs Shimakaze 12km torp" debate.  If you look at average torp hit percentages, per salvo, the average number of torpedo hits is exactly the same for both ships.  Sure, Shima launches 15 and Gearing only ten but they are hitting the same number of torpedoes per salvo.  The key difference is Shima's torps hit for 6k more than Gearing's do.

 

You want better spotting distances?  Then expect damage to drop to balance them out.  Right now, IJN DD's are fine if the player does their part and knows how to play them well.  The problem is it takes a little more than an average player to get the most out of one of these ships.  Once you figure it out, they are absolutely amazing ships to play.

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5 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

I really like it when I get a perfect 85-90d torp salvo on a BB, from <8km out, and then, thanks to the torps being Type 90's with horrible detection range, the BB is able to do a pirouette through them.

WG nerfed the detection range not so much for the BBs but CAs.  Do you feel its a detection range issue?  Or is a Vig/TA issue as those were buffed to combat the "torp soup" as well.

The base reaction time on these torps is 9.61 seconds, but with all of the anti torpedo skills and upgrades that balloons to 14.41 seconds.  Only BBs able to make turns like you describe are running both Vig, and TA unless the torps got spotted via another means.  Obviously a BB going that hard into torpedo protection should reap benefits of that since it gives up surviability in other areas.  Is the combination of Vig and TA upgrade too powerful? 

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I won't mind if the buffed the IJN torp detection again and even if they nerf the damage as Peace pointed out they could do to "balance" it out,being able to  land the third tube of torps will make up for it

Edited by Muki41

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11 hours ago, UrPeaceKeeper said:

 

Uhh, it is absolutely relevant how much damage the torps do because the average number of torpedo hits for most DDs in a tier is basically the same in spite of the spotting distance difference.  The problem there sits between the keyboard and chair.

 

A perfect example is the often cited "Gearing vs Shimakaze 12km torp" debate.  If you look at average torp hit percentages, per salvo, the average number of torpedo hits is exactly the same for both ships.  Sure, Shima launches 15 and Gearing only ten but they are hitting the same number of torpedoes per salvo.  The key difference is Shima's torps hit for 6k more than Gearing's do.

 

You want better spotting distances?  Then expect damage to drop to balance them out.  Right now, IJN DD's are fine if the player does their part and knows how to play them well.  The problem is it takes a little more than an average player to get the most out of one of these ships.  Once you figure it out, they are absolutely amazing ships to play.

interesting to see "gearing torp vs shimakaze torp" in this arguement.

how about fletcher's torp vs yugumo's torp ? fletcher can launch 10 per salvo, average 6% hit. Yugumo launch 8 per salvo, average 7% hit.

Yugumo's torp hit only 4k more, but 2 less per salvo, plus longer reload than fletcher's.

Yugumo's torp is only 1kt faster but detection range is much larger.

 

is that 4k more damage + 1.5km more range really justify for longer reload, less torp per salvo + huge detection ?

idk about you guys, but I don't think it should work like that. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, SkyRail said:

interesting to see "gearing torp vs shimakaze torp" in this arguement.

how about fletcher's torp vs yugumo's torp ? fletcher can launch 10 per salvo, average 6% hit. Yugumo launch 8 per salvo, average 7% hit.

Yugumo's torp hit only 4k more, but 2 less per salvo, plus longer reload than fletcher's.

Yugumo's torp is only 1kt faster but detection range is much larger.

 

is that 4k more damage + 1.5km more range really justify for longer reload, less torp per salvo + huge detection ?

idk about you guys, but I don't think it should work like that. 

 

 

Hah, you forgot amazing guns, agility, and smoke... lol

 

IJN forever...!

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12 hours ago, UrPeaceKeeper said:

 

A perfect example is the often cited "Gearing vs Shimakaze 12km torp" debate.  If you look at average torp hit percentages, per salvo, the average number of torpedo hits is exactly the same for both ships.  Sure, Shima launches 15 and Gearing only ten but they are hitting the same number of torpedoes per salvo.  The key difference is Shima's torps hit for 6k more than Gearing's do.

Comparing a gunboat to a torp boat and saying they have the same torp hit ratio is disingenuous.....

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21 minutes ago, WhiteRecon said:

Hah, you forgot amazing guns, agility, and smoke... lol

 

IJN forever...!

thanks for reminding everyone that fletcher also have amazing guns, on par if not better agility, and far better smoke than yugumo's. plus his AA only compete with speed boost yet IJN TRB compete with smoke......(imo both AA and TRB should be on seperate slot just like hydro)

 

but we don't need those on our IJN DD, they as good right now... all we need is better torp. As a torpedo focus line, I don't think we are asking too much if IJN in general have better torp than other nations'

(just like how russian DD have better guns alpha and speed, USN DD have better AA and team oriented smoke, and german DD have hydro)

3 minutes ago, Thraxian said:

Comparing a gunboat to a torp boat and saying they have the same torp hit ratio is disingenuous.....

i am thinking the same too.

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Yugumo is one of my fav ships, and i have 3 other T10 DDs.  WG swung the pendulum too far when they nerfed IJN DDs, we've been saying that for, what?, over a year now?  It's asinine that those crappy USN gunboats have better torps.  I guess our DDs just take more finesse to push the delete on capital ships. 

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4 hours ago, SkyRail said:

interesting to see "gearing torp vs shimakaze torp" in this arguement.

how about fletcher's torp vs yugumo's torp ? fletcher can launch 10 per salvo, average 6% hit. Yugumo launch 8 per salvo, average 7% hit.

Yugumo's torp hit only 4k more, but 2 less per salvo, plus longer reload than fletcher's.

Yugumo's torp is only 1kt faster but detection range is much larger.

 

is that 4k more damage + 1.5km more range really justify for longer reload, less torp per salvo + huge detection ?

idk about you guys, but I don't think it should work like that. 

 

 

 

Ok, I'll humor you.  I did the math to help this move along.

 

Yuugumo running the Type 93 Mod 2 (10km torp) and Mod 3 (12km) will get a max of 10 salvo's in a match (ok, 10.7 if you want to get technical.  At eight torpedoes a salvo this means that you'll launch 80 torpedoes a match.  At a 7% hit rate you are hitting with 5.6 of them.  This gives you an average damage of 117409 damage and 133089 damage for each (because they do 20966 dmg and 23766 damage each torpedo) respectively.  The F3's don't change much outside of the range of engagement here (suicidal, IMO).  The F3's will have 6.1 torpedoes hit out of 88 fired in a match for 131604 damage a match just using a 7% hit rate.

 

Doing the same with Fletcher, you get 11 salvo's with the Mark 16 Mod 1 of ten per salvo for a total of 110 torpedoes a match.  At a 6% hit rate that means you'll hit with 6.6 of them.  At 19033 damage each you will do a max damage of 125617 damage.  More than the Type 93 Mod 2 and less than the Type 93 Mod 3 or F3.

 

I doubt many people are opting for the Mod 2's or the F3's over the Mod 3's but I could be wrong here.  The Mod 3's are clearly the superior choice for those looking for more comfortable play, the F3's for more aggressive play.  Either way you slice it, both are doing more damage than a Fletcher is, torpedo for torpedo and really hitting only about one less torpedo per match.  That damage spread is anywhere between a third to half of a T9 DD's health so I'd hardly call that insignificant.  Does it make up for the gun differences?  I'd say that is a pretty big wash.  Yuugumo with TRB complicates this math further and skews the damage numbers even higher in favor of Yuugumo.

 

So yes, it DOES justify the difference.

 

 

3 hours ago, Thraxian said:

Comparing a gunboat to a torp boat and saying they have the same torp hit ratio is disingenuous.....

 

Hardly!  Everytime someone brings up Shimakaze's torpedoes as being "The Worst" the argument instantly shifts to how the Gearing's torps are "The Best".  The reality is that the ships are hitting the same number of torpedoes in a game only Shima's torps do nearly 6k more damage per torpedo than Gearing.  So in spite of the differences in spotting distance, Shimakaze still boasts the best torpedoes of the T10 DD's by a healthy margin because the spotting range being as high as it is hasn't changed the number of torpedoes hitting per match and Shima still does more damage per torpedo.

 

For the record, the above statement is backed by server stats using the exact same methodology as above:

Gearing will launch 8 salvo's in a match for a total of 80 torpedoes launched.  At an 8% hit rate this means 6.4 torpedoes hit, at 17900 damage each, this puts the max torpedo damage per match at 114560.

 

Shimakaze will launch 7 salvo's in a match of 15 torpedoes for a total of 105 torpedoes.  At a 6% hit rate, that means 6.3 torpedoes will hit and with the Type 93 Mod 3's (12km torps) this means 149725 damage.  That's a HUGE advantage.  That's almost a full T10 cruiser more potential damage with torpedoes than Gearing.

 

And calling Gearing a Gunboat is pretty disingenuous too.  Gearing's "gunboat"-ness runs out at 8km.  Shimakaze is effective out to her max AFT augmented range of 13.6km against ALL targets.  Gearing stops being effective at 8km against DD's, about 10km against cruisers and can hit BB's at its max 11.1km range reasonably well but does not necessarily benefit with having AFT for gunning down ships (it does for AA though).  All of that because of the accuracy and shell velocity of Shima's guns.  Shimakaze is also significantly faster at 39 knots than Gearing at 36 knots and will always have speedboost as an option where Gearing will not necessarily be running it due to people running a mix of DF and SB.  

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