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LoneStormchaser

BB Invisible. Behind Smoke..Remains Invisible

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Curious. With the recent update about the affects that smoke has on various ships, I am curious how can a Battleship remain invisible after firing, 30 second reload, fire again, and still remain invisible, never being spotted? Curious.

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Keep in mind that smoke still REDUCES their visibility when firing.  My guess, without any visual evidence, is that no enemies were within that range and direct LOS.

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Please post replay.

Seriously, what is it with people asking "what happened here" type questions and not providing a replay? How can they ever expect us to answer what happened if we can't see what happened?

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check the numbers, some BBs have very low detection range, even when firing from behind smoke.

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If the BB was BEHIND the smoke, not INSIDE it then yes, the BB would remain completely invisible. This of course only would apply if no other ship or aircraft has LOS in its detection range.

Remember, smoke rules only apply when inside the smoke screen.

In Yamato I keep seeing cries of 'hack' when I sit behind a smoke screen firing and they can't see me even if they 5km away... well..duh.. pop a plane or have someone spot for you O.o

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4 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

If the BB was BEHIND the smoke, not INSIDE it then yes, the BB would remain completely invisible. This of course only would apply if no other ship or aircraft has LOS in its detection range.

Remember, smoke rules only apply when inside the smoke screen.

In Yamato I keep seeing cries of 'hack' when I sit behind a smoke screen firing and they can't see me even if they 5km away... well..duh.. pop a plane or have someone spot for you O.o

 

I'm not sure I believe that. I've been spotted while behind smoke and no enemy ships had LOS on me. (I knew where they were on the map.)

My understanding, though it may be wrong, is that smoke doesn't always block LOS. It only blocks if you are in it. While that sounds stupid, remember that radar here goes through islands and if a spit of land is in the way, you can't see a BB even though you can watch it's shells being fired. 

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7 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

If the BB was BEHIND the smoke, not INSIDE it then yes, the BB would remain completely invisible. This of course only would apply if no other ship or aircraft has LOS in its detection range.

Remember, smoke rules only apply when inside the smoke screen.

In Yamato I keep seeing cries of 'hack' when I sit behind a smoke screen firing and they can't see me even if they 5km away... well..duh.. pop a plane or have someone spot for you O.o

IIRC, this was noticed, mentioned on the dev facebook and addressed.  Unless they rolled back the fix and reintroduced it?  Wouldn't make much sense.

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Again - REPLAYS for examination is the key to a better explanation for  and against such statements

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18 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

If the BB was BEHIND the smoke, not INSIDE it then yes, the BB would remain completely invisible.

Nope. The smoke changes / firing penalties are for both inside and behind the smoke. All that the system takes into account is whether there's smoke between the two ships.

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Which ship was undetected?  Detectability varies, for example:

 

・ South Carolina: 10.62km
・ Wyoming: 10.77km
・ New York: 13.99km
・ Colorado: 16.19km
・ North Carolina: 15.1km
・ Arkansas Beta: 10.77km
・ Montana: 17.38km
・ Iowa: 15.64km
・ New Mexico: 12.31km
・ Arizona: 12.47km
・ Alabama: 15.64km
・ Missouri: 15.64km
・ Texas: 13.99km
・ Alabama ST: 15.64km

・ Warspite: 13.03km
・ Bellerophon: 10.47km
・ Orion: 12.11km
・ Iron Duke: 12.59km
・ Queen Elizabeth: 13.19km
・ King George V: 12.63km
・ Monarch: 13.35km
・ Lion: 14.76km
・ Conqueror: 16.69km
・ Hood: 14.89km
・ Nelson: 14.76km

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/dasha-jekyll-and-mistress-tide/

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9 minutes ago, Lert said:

Nope. The smoke changes / firing penalties are for both inside and behind the smoke. All that the system takes into account is whether there's smoke between the two ships.

This is supposed to be how it works and is my experience.  All that should be factored is whether or not smoke is blocking line of sight.  If it is, the new rules apply.  It should not matter if you are in or behind it.  However, that does not explain:

29 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

In Yamato I keep seeing cries of 'hack' when I sit behind a smoke screen firing and they can't see me even if they 5km away...

Either this was a bug or something else was blocking line of sight.  At 5km, only some cruisers (e.g. Perth @ 4.5km) and probably most DDs would not be detected at 5km.  I don't think any BBs would qualify at anywhere near that range, and it should not matter if they are not in the smoke itself.

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1 hour ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

Where is the replay? I was hoping to see a replay,or at least a Picture.

 

47 minutes ago, Lert said:

Please post replay.

Seriously, what is it with people asking "what happened here" type questions and not providing a replay? How can they ever expect us to answer what happened if we can't see what happened?

Why do you guys always ask for a replay? It was a freekin question. If you can't explain what the mechanics are, then it's best if you just don't comment. If your reply is because you want to be a "Wannabe" then ..... Come on guys, seriously, It was a question.

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1 minute ago, LoneStormchaser said:

 

Why do you guys always ask for a replay? It was a freekin question. If you can't explain what the mechanics are, then it's best if you just don't comment. If your reply is because you want to be a "Wannabe" then ..... Come on guys, seriously, It was a question.

Because there are multiple pathways to how the OP saw what they saw. Even if the OP stated that the BB is behind smoke and disappear, range of the enemy BB to the nearest ally and whether or not they have LOS is an important factor. If they didn't, which seems to be the case here, there are multiple reasons why, ranging from being behind or in another smoke cover, behind islands, or simply out of range to see through the enemy's BB concealment. There's 100 reasons why the OP couldn't see the enemy BB and we have no idea which one it would be w/out seeing exactly what happened. 

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4 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

 

Why do you guys always ask for a replay? It was a freekin question. If you can't explain what the mechanics are, then it's best if you just don't comment. If your reply is because you want to be a "Wannabe" then ..... Come on guys, seriously, It was a question.

And there only way to truly answer the question is by seeing a replay to know definitely.  You have several ideas based onreplies but to get the one true answer - people would need to see the exact situation of everyone.  How you expect people to divine the exact situtation is beyond me.

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7 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

Why do you guys always ask for a replay? It was a freekin question.

Because right now it could be anything. If you want a proper answer to the question, provide a replay so we have something to actually determine what happened. What good is asking a question if it's 'just a question' and you don't want an actual proper answer what actually happened? Then you're just wasting all our time.

We know it's 'a freekin question'. We want to answer it. But we can't answer it properly without seeing for ourselves what actually happened.

In this case, what BB was it? What was the range? Was OP having ping issues at the moment? Was there a desynch? Packet loss? Was there a spit of land in the way that could've blocked line of sight? We don't know any of that without a replay.

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48 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

Why do you guys always ask for a replay? It was a freekin question. If you can't explain what the mechanics are, then it's best if you just don't comment. If your reply is because you want to be a "Wannabe" then ..... Come on guys, seriously, It was a question.

You asked the question.  This how you get the correct answer.  You're being very rude, ungrateful and belligerent.

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51 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

 

Why do you guys always ask for a replay? It was a freekin question. If you can't explain what the mechanics are, then it's best if you just don't comment. If your reply is because you want to be a "Wannabe" then ..... Come on guys, seriously, It was a question.

Because nobody really believes that you see what you think you see.

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5 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

You asked the question.  This how you get the correct answer.  You're being very rude, ungrateful and belligerent.

I was not being rude. I asked "How does the mechanics work" under such a condition, as was in my post. If asking how the mechanics work on a given situation, requires a replay, please explain why. I thought it was clear in my post. Did I complain or say anything that it had occurred? I've been gone for a few weeks, and, though I read the update information, I didn't understand what had taken place with the update.

1 hour ago, Skyfaller said:

If the BB was BEHIND the smoke, not INSIDE it then yes, the BB would remain completely invisible. This of course only would apply if no other ship or aircraft has LOS in its detection range.

1 hour ago, OgreMkV said:

My understanding, though it may be wrong, is that smoke doesn't always block LOS. It only blocks if you are in it. While that sounds stupid, remember that radar here goes through islands and if a spit of land is in the way, you can't see a BB even though you can watch it's shells being fired. 

 

These are answers to my post, ......  and not .... (YOU GOT A VIDEO OR PICS) ....  whether they are correct or not, I DON'T KNOW.

Players come on, and the first thing they can ask, is, "Do you have a video" (Did they bother to read the post) So.... My answer is, WHAT GOOD WOULD THAT DO AND WHY IS EVERYBODY ALWAYS ASKING FOR A VIDEO? IS IT BECAUSE THEY JUST WANT TO BE HEARD OR SEEN, HERE ON THE FORUM? Why not just answer what was asked in the post?

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20 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

Why not just answer what was asked in the post?

I have answered your question of "why do you always ask for replays". I have not answered the original post because I can't answer it without seeing for myself the exact circumstances.

20 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

I was not being rude.

You are. We are offering actual help based on facts rather than rumors based on supposition and what-you-think-you-saw, and you're accusing us of just being ego-trippers. Sounds to me like you're the one who needs to watch the ego.

Seems to me though you have no interest in actually getting your original question answered, so I'm out of this thread, and you can stew in your ignorance for all I care.

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17 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

I was not being rude. I asked "How does the mechanics work" under such a condition, as was in my post. If asking how the mechanics work on a given situation, requires a replay, please explain why. I thought it was clear in my post. Did I complain or say anything that it had occurred? I've been gone for a few weeks, and, though I read the update information, I didn't understand what had taken place with the update.

These are answers to my post, ......  and not .... (YOU GOT A VIDEO OR PICS) ....  whether they are correct or not, I DON'T KNOW.

Players come on, and the first thing they can ask, is, "Do you have a video" (Did they bother to read the post) So.... My answer is, WHAT GOOD WOULD THAT DO AND WHY IS EVERYBODY ALWAYS ASKING FOR A VIDEO? IS IT BECAUSE THEY JUST WANT TO BE HEARD OR SEEN, HERE ON THE FORUM? Why not just answer what was asked in the post?

People ask for he replay because that would show exactly what happened. For example, what was the distance? BBs do still benefit from smoke a bit, just not as much as before.

 

Its possible to provide all the details without a replay, but you didn’t. 

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33 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

I was not being rude. I asked "How does the mechanics work" under such a condition, as was in my post. If asking how the mechanics work on a given situation, requires a replay, please explain why. I thought it was clear in my post. Did I complain or say anything that it had occurred? I've been gone for a few weeks, and, though I read the update information, I didn't understand what had taken place with the update.

These are answers to my post, ......  and not .... (YOU GOT A VIDEO OR PICS) ....  whether they are correct or not, I DON'T KNOW.

Players come on, and the first thing they can ask, is, "Do you have a video" (Did they bother to read the post) So.... My answer is, WHAT GOOD WOULD THAT DO AND WHY IS EVERYBODY ALWAYS ASKING FOR A VIDEO? IS IT BECAUSE THEY JUST WANT TO BE HEARD OR SEEN, HERE ON THE FORUM? Why not just answer what was asked in the post?

So lemme break it down for you, with everything that I personally know about the game mechanics, that could possibly answer your question and WHY, without a replay, we can't say so for sure which one of these it could be:

  1. Battleships have different spotting ranges when they fire from smoke cover.  This leads to the following follow up questions:
    a.)  How close were you to the battleship in question?
    b.)  How close was the nearest ship to the battleship in question?
    c.)  How close was the nearest aircraft to the battleship in question?
    d.)  Was the battleship in range of any radar / hydroacoustic search ships?
    e.) Were any friendly ships suddenly destroyed in proximity to the battleship that was firing from concealment?
    f. )  What island cover was in and around the battleship?
    g.) Was their a cyclone starting / ending / going on at the time? 
     
  2. Are you certain it was a battleship firing?  How do we know it wasn't another 6/8/9/10/12 gun warship that you mistook for a battleship?
     
  3. How far away were you from the ship in question?  Was there any cover between you and the enemy ship?
     
  4. What means were you using to observe the ship in question?  This leads to the following follow up questions:
    a.)  What are your graphics settings?
    b.)  Are you using any mods?
    c.)  How would you rate the quality of your latency?
    d.)  What was the latency at the time of your observation?
     
  5. What ship were you piloting?  Which leads to the follow up questions:
    a.)  Was the vessel in question within your render distance?
    b.)  Were you dead at the time?
    c.)  If you were dead, were you using the free camera or observing with the camera locked onto a friendly ship?
     
  6. How many times have you encountered something like this?
     
  7. Did this problem resolve itself?

And any answer you give me to any and all of these questions would necessitate more follow up questions to properly identify what you believed you saw.  My best guess would be a back and forth discussion of about 15 to 20 minutes that will still require me to ask you to show me instead of tell me what happened.  If I have the replay in hand, I could discover the issue inside of 4 minutes -- a shorter time than it would take you to read this post, begin to formulate another unfriendly comment and imagine yourself somehow wronged.

All I would need from the replay is:  "What battleship?  At about what time during the match?  Okay, lemme look into it."

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse

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2 hours ago, LoneStormchaser said:

Curious. With the recent update about the affects that smoke has on various ships, I am curious how can a Battleship remain invisible after firing, 30 second reload, fire again, and still remain invisible, never being spotted? Curious.

This was my Original post.

8 minutes ago, inktomi19d said:

People ask for he replay because that would show exactly what happened. For example, what was the distance? BBs do still benefit from smoke a bit, just not as much as before.

 

Its possible to provide all the details without a replay, but you didn’t. 

There is no replay, how can there be? And I never said it had happened. I was trying to get some help on how the new mechanics pertaining to battleships, since the update but the answers I got were to provide a video.

After various responses about issuing a video to substantiate my "complain" (which there was no complaint), I replied,

1 hour ago, LoneStormchaser said:

 

Why do you guys always ask for a replay? It was a freekin question. If you can't explain what the mechanics are, then it's best if you just don't comment. If your reply is because you want to be a "Wannabe" then ..... Come on guys, seriously, It was a question.

Was it the wrong reply I made? I will say "NO" because it obvious to me, they didn't read the post. It's almost like somebody is taking a defense to something that was never imposed. So I answered, but others will say

1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

You asked the question.  This how you get the correct answer.  You're being very rude, ungrateful and belligerent.

I respect Mouse's and Lert's opinion, because of their knowledge on the game. Maybe I was expecting some kind of answer to how the mechanics work from such players, but it wasn't what I got.

 

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10 minutes ago, LoneStormchaser said:

I respect Mouse's and Lert's opinion, because of their knowledge on the game. Maybe I was expecting some kind of answer to how the mechanics work from such players, but it wasn't what I got.

The way your original question was phrased, it sounds very much like it's something you've observed and you were looking for an explanation.  Clearly this wasn't the case.  If you want a spotting mechanics explanation, we could be here for a looooong time.  That's a long-essay question and I could write a 2,000 word article on it with at least four sets of illustrations to clarify my points.

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