Losing because not THINKING

[Soshi_Sone]

Some have seen my thinking post, and I ran into exactly the problem last night.  We're winning with ship advantage in standard mode.  However, a BB and DD are moving on our cap.  I'm in a light cruiser sparring with them, and put out the call to defend the base.  Two of our BBs on the edge of our cap are headed AWAY from our cap and AWAY from the approaching enemy.  I put out the call again...and they continue the "retreat".  We have two more battling off in the corner.  

 

A couple of minutes later, those two BB are even further away from the cap, and our other two BBs are still fighting in the corner.  I can't see the DD as it begins the cap, so I ping the BB to at least reset it.  I'm down to 25% HP and expect to die at any moment.  

 

I put out another call to help defend the base.  At this moment the rest of the team suddenly realizes we're being capped.  Now, five minutes after I put out the original defense call, they begin their journey back to defend the base.  I charge in to get a bead on the DD to hope and get a reset...but the BB takes me out.  The rest of the team is too far away to spot the DD, and we lose the cap.

 

We had it won.  Simple map awareness should have been enough.  But even with my pleas for help, everyone's attention was elsewhere..and remained elsewhere when there was plenty of time to come to the cap defense.  

 

Game wasn't lost to RNG, MM, or tiering.  It was lost because our team didn't THINK.  It was a THINK loss.

[Stauffenberg44]

Yes but... so many of those, I don't want to think about it this early. Perhaps later.

[Ace_04]

Happens all the time.

 

Just remember, some people just play this as a shoot guns/pew pew game, without the slightest clue of situational awareness.  Expecting more from them, especially on a weekend, is just naive.

 

Expect poor play from teammates and plan for those weaknesses, and appreciate it when you get the good ones.

[Cobraclutch]

I have actually stopped playing games when I am tired, my performance recently has been horrid due to me being in a catatonic state when playing late night games. 

 

Bad posture, tired, foggy and not thinking much at all. Just wanna get some videogaming in... But that leads to very bad gameplay.

 

Just go to bed Cobra...  

[Kuckoo]

Some people just log in to derp and don't give a $#!% about anything else, not just in co-ops but in randoms as well.

 

Accepting that fact takes away some of the sting.

[Soft_and_Cute]

This is an issue that, in my opinion at least, largely has to do with the fact that standard battle does not really work for certain maps. People don't have the multiple neutral objectives of domination (which seems to draw more attention and actual strategy), therefore they wander off and do their own thing or play ultra conservatively and don't properly react to what is going on. Something that compounds this is the fact that maps are better suited for multiple objectives and are quite spread out with too many routes for attack. This issue, along with the fact that bases don't really get capped very often in standard (at least in my experience), means players rarely will pay attention to the map or the base and therefore wont notice it being captured until its far too late. While i'm not saying that it is entirely standard battles fault, it can be a major contributing factor to the lack of situational awareness.

[nina_blain_73]

i feel your pain pretty much same thing happened to me yesterday

[Stauffenberg44]

2 minutes ago, Majestic_Waffle said:

This is an issue that, in my opinion at least, largely has to do with the fact that standard battle does not really work for certain maps. People don't have the multiple neutral objectives of domination (which seems to draw more attention and actual strategy), therefore they wander off and do their own thing or play ultra conservatively and don't properly react to what is going on. Something that compounds this is the fact that maps are better suited for multiple objectives and are quite spread out with too many routes for attack. This issue, along with the fact that bases don't really get capped very often in standard (at least in my experience), means players rarely will pay attention to the map or the base and therefore wont notice it being captured until its far too late. While i'm not saying that it is entirely standard battles fault, it can be a major contributing factor to the lack of situational awareness.

Yes, and +1 for that.

[Simers72]

I am convinced that the average wows player has their minimap turned off by default.  

 

 

 

 

[Stauffenberg44]

12 minutes ago, Simers72 said:

I am convinced that the average wows player has their minimap turned off by default.

Try to see it from their point of view. It really is distracting.

[GrimmeReaper]

Lost game over the weekend because a Moskova and Bismarck decided CV hunting up in the corner was more important.  So it happens, next battle!

[Seadog_Supreme]

Concentration of force is the key to victory. Ships off on the edge of the map may think they are doing something important, but they have scattered the force and often become completely irrelevant.

[Megrim3]

25 minutes ago, Simers72 said:

I am convinced that the average wows player has their minimap turned off by default.  

 

 

 

 

And I'm convinced that some play with their entire UI HUD disabled.  Not seeing chat, mini map, or crosshairs at all. 

[Stauffenberg44]

4 minutes ago, Megrim3 said:

And I'm convinced that some play with their entire UI HUD disabled.  Not seeing chat, mini map, or crosshairs at all. 

He stands like a statue
Becomes part of the machine
Feeling all the bumpers
Always playing clean
He plays by intuition
The digit counters fall
That deaf dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball.

                       - Rock Opera Tommy, The Who

[IronWolfV]

Much of the player population are not burdened with an over abundance of brain matter.

[Herodotus4]

1 minute ago, IronWolfV said:

Much of the player population are not burdened with an over abundance of brain matter.

either brain matter or a reason to care about winning or losing. they are probably having more fun then you are which raises questions about who is being smart, the person who is angry about their teammates being bad or the person who is bad but logs on for a few games per day to have fun shooting at pixel ships that actually don't matter.

[IronWolfV]

Just now, Herodotus4 said:

either brain matter or a reason to care about winning or losing. they are probably having more fun then you are which raises questions about who is being smart, the person who is angry about their teammates being bad or the person who is bad but logs on for a few games per day to have fun shooting at pixel ships that actually don't matter.

And there's the paradox.

[Xylphan]

It's simple. A number of players simply lack situational awareness and the ability to strategize. They think this game is a first person shooter and will just try to pew-pew-pew their way to victory. Those players get frustrated and salty, and then blame everyone else for their losses instead of their own myopic play.

[LowSpeed_US]

Proudest moment was yesterday for me. Playing at Tier 4 with Orion. Standard map. We were tied mid way through the battle.

Then, a OKT gets a 4th kill. We are reduced to myself, and 2 other low HP battleships at base on our side. I relay to them to maintain cover. Specially from that OKT player. They ignored it. Realised that they are in division also. We start to lose on points. 

I make the choice to return to the base or make the move to theirs (I was about 3/4 of the way out). I decide to make the bold move, I figure 2 ships can take OKT out. In the process I get 3 kills, got into the cap. By this time the OKT ship is pursuing me after killing both of our ships.

I sink another in a close brawl, sinking him with my secondaries. I find their CV player who literally rounds the island into my guns, and beaches. 

I fire, reacquire, and fire. CV having only a fraction of HP left. I load my guns, and fire. Shell in the air, knowing that this will by my Kraken and winning the game. But the timer won, no Kraken but we won. Too bad, there weren't more ships on their side. Would've loved the Solo Warrior badge.

This is after two years of playing this game. So keep on the good fight, stay positive.

 

[Stauffenberg44]

13 minutes ago, Herodotus4 said:

either brain matter or a reason to care about winning or losing. they are probably having more fun then you are which raises questions about who is being smart, the person who is angry about their teammates being bad or the person who is bad but logs on for a few games per day to have fun shooting at pixel ships that actually don't matter.

+1 for that uncomfortable observation, likely true.

[Nachoo31]

[Warlord_Deadeye_Pete]

Common doesn't even begin to describe especially when it comes do a domination (2 cap) fight.  It frustrating but I don't have a button on the keyboard the causes a giant hand to reach out of the monitor and grab by the ear to get their attention  (oh I wish sometimes).

 

It's not something that going to change in random battles ever.  It happens here, it happens in world of tanks.  Folk be getting pew pew in the brain.  They don't understand objectives, goals, the synergies between ships classes.. It's all about min maxing.  They don't understand the subtleties of the trades between ship upgrades and commander skills.  I call em cannon fodder and torpedo bait.  And if your team has more of them then the other team yer in trouble!

 

I run a Tier 8 IJN DD with no smoke, and the TRB.. and have been called a selfish player for doing so.  yet how many DD actually ever lay down smoke as a trail for large ships to advance up, or use for cover?  I stay in close company if I'm not running for a cap and my mear presence is often time sufficient to drive off opposing DD's..  I'll even unmask and void my concealment to attract attention and pull the heat off of larger ships to (see the DD shoot the DD.. easy kill, shoot the DD thats not moving... you know you want to!)  I've only had a bare handful of player ever even realize what I was doing and why, much less thank me for it.  And that includes players I've been divisioned several times with that know my play style and even they don't get it!   

 

Far to many player don;t realize thats ships offensive firpower is rarely degraded by damage.. they take a few hits and run for cover, scream for DD smoke to protect them and are so busy surrendering the intitive and ground to the opposing team and not realizing that damaged or not they're still fully combat capable and can still do full damage.  Just proves there is more then one kind of "target Locked"   

 

I'm aware of it.  I see it all the time, and yes it is very frustrating watch the team you are on snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...  Perhapes my fav thing I love to be told. is "don't cap"  (because they want to farm more damage and kills off the surviving enemy players..and they call ME selfish)  I gnore those that spout this foolisheness and go cap.  I learned my lessong from the over 8,000 and better then 1,500 hours in match that I've played..  I've have seen more times then not the one ship that everyone lost track of cruise into the cap while everyone is off chasing one or two other ships and generating a win for them and a loss for us.  And more then a few times it's been the enemy CV of  all things!  Never agan.. I go cap!

 

But know that your not alone, and that other see it and dislike it every bit as much as you do.  You not on your lonesome keeping the faith!  Be reassured!

 

Warlord sends

 

 

 

 

[Psicopro]

2 hours ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Some have seen my thinking post, and I ran into exactly the problem last night.  We're winning with ship advantage in standard mode.  However, a BB and DD are moving on our cap.  I'm in a light cruiser sparring with them, and put out the call to defend the base.  Two of our BBs on the edge of our cap are headed AWAY from our cap and AWAY from the approaching enemy.  I put out the call again...and they continue the "retreat".  We have two more battling off in the corner.  

 

A couple of minutes later, those two BB are even further away from the cap, and our other two BBs are still fighting in the corner.  I can't see the DD as it begins the cap, so I ping the BB to at least reset it.  I'm down to 25% HP and expect to die at any moment.  

 

I put out another call to help defend the base.  At this moment the rest of the team suddenly realizes we're being capped.  Now, five minutes after I put out the original defense call, they begin their journey back to defend the base.  I charge in to get a bead on the DD to hope and get a reset...but the BB takes me out.  The rest of the team is too far away to spot the DD, and we lose the cap.

 

We had it won.  Simple map awareness should have been enough.  But even with my pleas for help, everyone's attention was elsewhere..and remained elsewhere when there was plenty of time to come to the cap defense.  

 

Game wasn't lost to RNG, MM, or tiering.  It was lost because our team didn't THINK.  It was a THINK loss.

Yea, some players know but don't care.  They "do them" and are interested in playing for damage instead of the objectives.  They won' take risks when it is necessary in order to stem the tide.  They would rather lose if it means they can farm damage and still look good for their personal rating.

[Soshi_Sone]

1 hour ago, Seadog_Supreme said:

Concentration of force is the key to victory. Ships off on the edge of the map may think they are doing something important, but they have scattered the force and often become completely irrelevant.

 

This is so true.  In fact, I often try to kite superior strength to me and lead them to the edge.  The good players don't take the bait.   But it works more often than it should.

 

Another example is when I was in a T8 BB and dueling it with THREE T9 BBs.  I was in the corner..staying angled...and at distance.  Someone on my team pinged me in the mini-map box like they do when they think you are out of position...not in the fight.  Yes, I was on the edge of the map.  Yes, I was all alone.  I understand it looked like I wasn't doing anything.  But dammit...I had the attention of  THREE T9 BBs.  I felt I was doing well.  I couldn't drive in or they would delete me.  I couldn't run...or I'd expose my broadside.  So there I sat.  I determined that as long as I hand their attention, I was doing good.  They could have rushed me, but I had flank support by a DD...so there options where constrained. 

     

They finally got smart...and extricated themselves back to the middle fight.   I made 'em pay for the disengagement and followed them and continued the harassment.  Unfortunately, our other flank had collapsed so I as I chased them down, they got re-reinforcements coming the other way, and it ended poorly for me at that point.  But still, a fun game.

[Crucis]

Soshi, for people like those team mates of yours, thinking is OP.  Heck, they probably can't be bothered to crack open a book either.