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STINKWEED_

Why tier 8 has become unplayable

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This is now the typical MM with my tier 8s these days. 8/10 battles I'm bottom tier and most of those I'm either the only tier 8 or one of two tier eights. How did this battle go? As soon as I was spotted three tier 10 BBs, two tier 10 CAs started seal clubbing my Bismarck while two Khabs chased me until I burnt to the ground.  It's time the MM is seriously updated.


shot-17_10.22_01_03.08-0454.thumb.jpg.278718c7dbb104dae6ae042b814ef110.jpg 

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3 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

This is now the typical MM with my tier 8s these days. 8/10 battles I'm bottom tier and most of those I'm either the only tier 8 or one of two tier eights. How did this battle go? As soon as I was spotted three tier 10 BBs, two tier 10 CAs started seal clubbing my Bismarck while two Khabs chased me until I burnt to the ground.  It's time the MM is seriously updated.


shot-17_10.22_01_03.08-0454.thumb.jpg.278718c7dbb104dae6ae042b814ef110.jpg 

I too have this Problem when in my Monarch... out ranged out raced out numbered.... Dead in mere moments..... But it is what it is,keep grinding past this POS.

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Some ships feel it worse than others. I resorted to grinding stock Monarch in co op because 16km range vs T10s is just unbearable. 

 

The majority of the player base is not equipped to deal with consistent uptiering. It is a problem for a lot of people. 

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I try to make sure that I am not alone on the border of my team or too far upfront when playing up-tiered like that.  If you have some company with regard to where you are positioned, you are a lot less likely to get focused.  Seems like you might be getting too far out in front of the team or too far out on the edge??

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No, what happens is that when Tier 10's see a tier 8, no matter if there are more strategic targets, kill the lower tiers first and get rid of their pesky guns. A legit strat, but  is really frustrating to have to be the team piñata game after game.

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In my opinion, you have to solve that problem with positioning.  Typically, the ships closest to the enemy line get focused the heaviest.  If you are getting focused by multiple tier X's right off the bat, you either need to hold your fire until you are in a better spot to engage, be able to play off terrain to protect you while you reposition after firing a few salvos, or play second line.

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I believe for the most part most T8 ships up tier better then any other tier lower than them. The Amagi, NC and Bismarck can take on any T10 BB and somewhat equal terms, the cruisers and DDs seem to be this way to, I know my NO has no issues being in a T10 match most times

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The problem with that match wasn't that you were a T8 in T10, but that you were the only T8 and in a terrible BB at that. If you were a Benson or Kagerou in that matchup, you would laugh your way to the bank because you can't get outspotted no matter what. If you were a Mogami or Chapayev, you could fire spam better than anyone else and have a huge concealment advantage. NOLA could surprise radar those DD and violate the Minotaurs. There are lots of T8s that I love to be in T10 matches with.

In most cases, tier is just a number.

Edited by awildseaking
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I think that t8 is in a much better position than T5 is.

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I just got my hull upgrade on monarch.     won 8 of 9 matches.   done pretty well even though my dmg is about average for the class I have good kill numbers.     it plays more like cruiser in that you have to use cover and good conceal to get close and plan out your advance and exist  so you can contribute to the team.   use mix of AP and HE .    been working on baltimore, and that has helped me a    definitely playable.   

 

TBH,  Iron Duke is OP.  even more than OR. 

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Wow, looks like I have some fun ahead of me.  Thankfully I'm not past Tier 5 yet.  Looks like I don't need to be in such a hurry to advance through the tiers if its that bad.

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I've noticed this too as I'm grinding away at the Monarch.  Makes the grind that much more difficult.  But I'm sure things will settle down after that.....I hope

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5 minutes ago, Royal_Seahawk said:

Wow, looks like I have some fun ahead of me.  Thankfully I'm not past Tier 5 yet.  Looks like I don't need to be in such a hurry to advance through the tiers if its that bad.

Take your time at T4.  There are a lot of valuable lessons to be learned at that tier, and you will have much more fun learning them.

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19 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I think that t8 is in a much better position than T5 is.

Not by much anymore.

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Monarch, even with that MM, isn't as bad as it's made out to be.  It's definitely a different style.  In that MM, it isn't expected to carry...or even finish in the top half.  But it CAN make a difference.  Monarch's strength in that MM is concealment.  You can only get focused if they can see you.  Unlike when you're top tier and can drive in and become the center of gravity of a  push, in that MM you become a harassing BB.  Fire at a distance where you can go silent and disappear.  Watch the enemy's guns...if they stay in your direction after you go silent...wait them out.  A silent T8 holding the attention of a T10 (or multiple T10s) is a winning strategy.  You are basically negating the T10.  They will soon realize you're not going to fire and they will rotate to a new target.  That's when you hit them again.  Rinse and repeat.  Chip away.  Chip away.  You can really piss 'em off this way.  And when folks get pissed, they make mistakes.

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The only Tier VIII ships that really struggle in high tier matches are Cruisers and CVs.

 

Tier VIII CV aircraft absolutely melt against Tier IX-X AA.  Yamato is reknowned in the game for her worthless AA.  But even a Yamato can easily swat Tier VIII Lexington's bomber groups, and USN air units are known to be tough.

 

Tier VIII Cruisers are just hot garbage unless they have very special survival gimmicks like Kutuzov and her smoke.  Otherwise, you have a bunch of Cruisers like NOLA, Adm.Hipper, etc. that have no repair party like their Tier IX-X Cruiser counterparts do and have all the vulnerabilities a Cruiser suffers in the BB-heavy meta.  A lot of those Tier VIII Cruisers have very mediocre gun ranges, while the Tier X ones have amazing range.  That range is a liability when your max gun range is sitting perfectly in the ideal BB gun ranges of those tiers.  On the flip side, Hindenburg, Zao, Moskva, Henri IV have great range and can use that range as a safety buffer.  16km Cruiser gun range?  LOL!  More like Point Blank Range to a BB at Tier IX-X :Smile_teethhappy:

 

The Tier VIII DDs are still stealthy and dangerous, and will still fulfill the basic functions demanded out of a DD.

 

The Tier VIII BBs have to be more cautious but otherwise they're fine.  I do think the gunnery at range of Amagi / Kii, NC / Alabama scale a lot better for Tier X play than the Secondaries Focused Tirpitz / Bismarck.  The last group of ships need to creep close to do their best work, the first group doesn't, and high tier gameplay is quite range oriented for a long time.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Enough player failed their way up to T10. Also some of the Yamamoto missions require a T9/10. I‘m not sure if the playerbase is big enough by now for a battletier 11/12. 11 is T9/10, 12 is T10 only. At least they have this in WoT. With the current MM you can only play T4/7/9/10 without being bottom tier regular.

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2 hours ago, zuga_01 said:

Think about tier 8 cruisers.

Right, I just stopped playing my New Orleans and, in fact, moved its commander to my Cleveland. I really don't even know if I'll continue the grind to the Des Moines, especially since I'm not going to purchase premium time or camouflage. Without premiums I still have to play lower-tiers for several games to pay for one game in my Fletcher. Conversely, my Cleveland handles tier VIII matches just fine.

 

One tier VIII cruiser that actually can handle tier X matches reasonably well is the Atago. Those four launchers with ten km torpedoes and the healing capability make it leaps and bounds better than the New Orleans, whose only (dubious) benefit to the team is a short-lived radar that has such a long cool-down that it can only be used about twice a match.

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2 hours ago, crzyhawk said:

I think that t8 is in a much better position than T5 is.

T8, 6, and 5 are the worst 3 tiers in the game.  i find 5 a little more bearable because if you are top tier, you can have fun.   Tier 6 top tier is meh.  Only beat up tier 5s.  You also get to deal with ships that are in part balanced around being in tier 10 matches.  Add in captain skills, modules etc,. and the gap is huge.  Tier 8 is pretty bad as well, but at least you get to be top tier rarely and get to beat up tier 6 ships. 

 

Haze pretty much nailed it though.  Cruisers suffer the most when they are bottom tier.   This tends to be the case in every tier in general, not just tier 8 cruisers.  The tier 8 dds can still fulfill their role, even if they are worse than higher tier DDs. Personally, i don't think the power gap between tier 8 and 10 DDs is as big as the gap between BBs or CAs at those same tiers.     BBs are still BBs though, and can still be useful.   I find you have to be very careful  with them.  You don't have the HP or the armor to take that big of a beating compared to tier 10 ships, when caught out of position.  The gap between CAs though, is just harsh.  No heals.  fire rate is slower. worse armor, less modules. lets not forget captain skills either.   A DM can just feast on a NO.  The hipper from what i seen is just a joke.      Then there are CVs.  Yea, tier 10 matches all the time is just so much fun!!

I would like to see +or -1 MM.  no more 2 tier spreads.   It would make balancing the game easier.  It would help some of the weaker ships.   It would make playing a lot of ships far more enjoyable.  I also think for new players, it would be nicer.  It will be easier learning what ships do what when you only have to worry about facing a 1 tier spread of ships across the tiers at any one time.  You also get rid of the shock factor that tier 5 brings, and imo, the tier 8 shock as well.  They could make it that if the time waiting between battles is too long(mainly in off hours), they can go back to the 2 tier spread. 

 

24 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Right, I just stopped playing my New Orleans and, in fact, moved its commander to my Cleveland. I really don't even know if I'll continue the grind to the Des Moines, especially since I'm not going to purchase premium time or camouflage. Without premiums I still have to play lower-tiers for several games to pay for one game in my Fletcher. Conversely, my Cleveland handles tier VIII matches just fine.

 

One tier VIII cruiser that actually can handle tier X matches reasonably well is the Atago. Those four launchers with ten km torpedoes and the healing capability make it leaps and bounds better than the New Orleans, whose only (dubious) benefit to the team is a short-lived radar that has such a long cool-down that it can only be used about twice a match.

while i dont blame you for not wanting to deal with that painful grind, this part caught my eye.  You shouldn't be losing that many credits per match.  I don't play with premium time either.  Outside of a really bad match/detonation, you should be breaking even if not making a profit.(i just use the -10% cost per battle flag)  Tier 10 i can understand losing credits as you need a really good match to break even without credit earning boosts.

yea, the short range radar means you have to move up to use it.  which means you are a prime target for any BB.  a heal can go a long way in helping you live longer. 

 

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Depends on the ship - my Amagi can certainly hold it's own and I've even had decent luck in the Hipper(currently grinding) spamming HE at BBs from behind islands and hunting DDs when the map thins out a bit. A tier 8 cruiser should still have the advantage vs. any tier 10 DD if you can isolate one later in the match.

You definitely need to adjust your playstyle in certain ships to play more of a support role, stay with the group, and make sure you don't overextend and always have an escape plan if you get focus-fired.

..

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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12 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

You shouldn't be losing that many credits per match.

 

Does the word "potato" ring any bells with you. WOWS stats and numbers says that I'm "bad" with destroyers. :Smile_teethhappy:

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