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Struggling with positioning

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I’ve been grinding away since Wednesday trying to hit the 1600xp goal to get the OKR, and it’s been frustrating. After struggling in the Cleveland for a while I bought the Scharnhorst, because I had my best round in the Scharnhorst when I was given the 3 day trial. The Scharnhorst has highlighted to me a number of the mistakes I have been making, but I keep having the same issues in all my other tier IV/V/VII ships and I’m a bit frustrated at how to prevent/fix them.

 

 I keep finding myself overextended, with a whole bunch of enemies all shooting at me. The Scharnhorst can take a lot, but never enough to survive until I’m clear of danger. I got tired of being the first item on the enemy team’s dinner menu, so I began immediately sailing for the cover of an island to hide behind and wait for a better opportunity. Problem is that the Scharnhorst can’t accelerate and decelerate quick enough. I hug the side of an island to shield myself from fire, only to realize that leaving cover would present my broadside to the very ships I was hiding from. And leaving cover is a sluggish affair as the ship very gradually accelerates to speed from a standstill. This makes it difficult to use smokescreens because accelerating from a dead stop is so slow. I try to angle myself towards the enemy, but this requires traveling towards the enemy, and when I do that for too long I find myself between two or more enemies such that turning towards one gives the other a broadside. Bringing all guns to bear on an enemy naturally requires presenting an uncomfortable amount of my sides, especially if I want to sink a torpedo into them. Turning around to escape when multiple enemies are bearing down has the same problem: it requires a fair bit of exposure. So it’s either sail deeper into trouble and become a fat target or turn around and become a fatter target. When I play conservatively, I don’t earn enough XP. When I become more aggressive, I die. 

 

Any ideas or suggestions?

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Mind you I'm not the best scharnhorst player. (infact I believe I'm below average) but you always have to remember the throttle control is your friend. I normally hate suggesting this but sometimes jamming into reverse is your best option if you get too far in but to prevent such things you can cut your speed to 1/4. If there's only 1 BB you can time your turning to start after he fires ect. 

 

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At 252 battles, it's going to be difficult to explain positioning to you.  You just don't have the experience.

 

Here are a few tips:

 

(1) You don't have to go full throttle all the time.  When you start having to point towards bad guys due to multiple people shooting at you, slow down. 

(2) You have to be willing to disengage.  This means exposing a broadside when turning away.  This also means stopping shooting so you can go dark.  Scharnhorst is a great ship and it excels at being able to show broadside and survive.  Similarly, you have to be willing to go where the fighting is.  Don't be afraid to change positions.  

(3) You get more XP for doing 10,000 damage to a 12,000 HP destroyer than you do by doing 35,000 damage to a 60,000 HP battleship.  Prioritize cruisers and destroyers.  

(4) In a Scharnhorst, you have speed, something most tier 5,6,and 7 battleships don't have.  Speed is awesome to have.  It's also dangerous because, as you have discovered, you can easily outrun your support.  See tip 1.  

 

Hope that helps you a little.

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Tip one: Listen to Pope_Shizzle.

Tip two: Find players to Div up with, just ask and even some of the saltiest captains on the forums will be happy to run with you.

 

You only have 257 battles, that's nothing, so don't be discouraged. Positioning can be tough and generally when you realize you overextended... it's too late to do much about it.

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Firstly, the Scharnhorst isn't really a bow-tanking battleship.  You really want to be exposing a bit of your side (but not too much) in order to bait shots into your 350mm belt, rather than your thin bow plate.

 

Secondly, it sounds to me like you're allowing the Scharn's speed to get you into trouble.  Try leaving the battleship mindset behind, and play her more like a super-heavy cruiser.  Run in, hit the enemy hard, and then use an island to turn away.  She actually has superb firing arcs when kiting and firing rearward, so take advantage of that.  If you take too much fire, stop firing, go dark, and fall back through some allies, in hopes that they'll attract some of that fire for you.  Then heal, swing around, and resume the engagement.

 

Third, don't be afraid to load HE.  The Scharn's AP is amazing, but against angled battleships, DDs, or battleships at extreme range, it's simply not going to get the job done.  I've burned down many an Iowa or Izumo in my Scharnhorst, simply by dropping rapid-fire HE salvos onto them at long range.  Similarly, the fast-firing, fast-rotating guns, torps, and her exceptional maneuverability make her surprisingly good at taking down DDs.  Again; pretend she's a cruiser and see where that gets you.  

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3 hours ago, mooglinux said:

I’ve been grinding away since Wednesday trying to hit the 1600xp goal to get the OKR, and it’s been frustrating. After struggling in the Cleveland for a while I bought the Scharnhorst, because I had my best round in the Scharnhorst when I was given the 3 day trial. The Scharnhorst has highlighted to me a number of the mistakes I have been making, but I keep having the same issues in all my other tier IV/V/VII ships and I’m a bit frustrated at how to prevent/fix them.

 

 I keep finding myself overextended, with a whole bunch of enemies all shooting at me. The Scharnhorst can take a lot, but never enough to survive until I’m clear of danger. I got tired of being the first item on the enemy team’s dinner menu, so I began immediately sailing for the cover of an island to hide behind and wait for a better opportunity. Problem is that the Scharnhorst can’t accelerate and decelerate quick enough. I hug the side of an island to shield myself from fire, only to realize that leaving cover would present my broadside to the very ships I was hiding from. And leaving cover is a sluggish affair as the ship very gradually accelerates to speed from a standstill. This makes it difficult to use smokescreens because accelerating from a dead stop is so slow. I try to angle myself towards the enemy, but this requires traveling towards the enemy, and when I do that for too long I find myself between two or more enemies such that turning towards one gives the other a broadside. Bringing all guns to bear on an enemy naturally requires presenting an uncomfortable amount of my sides, especially if I want to sink a torpedo into them. Turning around to escape when multiple enemies are bearing down has the same problem: it requires a fair bit of exposure. So it’s either sail deeper into trouble and become a fat target or turn around and become a fatter target. When I play conservatively, I don’t earn enough XP. When I become more aggressive, I die. 

 

Any ideas or suggestions?

You may be playing to aggressively, and sailing in to quickly and getting focused fired

hold back let the game develop till you know we’re the bulk of the enemy is, over time you’ll start to figure out we’re to go and not go so you then can be more aggressive and make it work for you, remember Wows rewards spotting and aggressive play .. just be smart about it

also buddy up , Div up or stick with other ships, this is a “ team game” after all lone wolf is not the best play style

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38 minutes ago, DerKrampus said:

Firstly, the Scharnhorst isn't really a bow-tanking battleship.  You really want to be exposing a bit of your side (but not too much) in order to bait shots into your 350mm belt, rather than your thin bow plate.

 

Secondly, it sounds to me like you're allowing the Scharn's speed to get you into trouble.  Try leaving the battleship mindset behind, and play her more like a super-heavy cruiser.  Run in, hit the enemy hard, and then use an island to turn away.  She actually has superb firing arcs when kiting and firing rearward, so take advantage of that.  If you take too much fire, stop firing, go dark, and fall back through some allies, in hopes that they'll attract some of that fire for you.  Then heal, swing around, and resume the engagement.

 

Third, don't be afraid to load HE.  The Scharn's AP is amazing, but against angled battleships, DDs, or battleships at extreme range, it's simply not going to get the job done.  I've burned down many an Iowa or Izumo in my Scharnhorst, simply by dropping rapid-fire HE salvos onto them at long range.  Similarly, the fast-firing, fast-rotating guns, torps, and her exceptional maneuverability make her surprisingly good at taking down DDs.  Again; pretend she's a cruiser and see where that gets you.  

I'm a longtime Scharnhorst driver and I can say that DerKrampus hit the nail on the head with that post. Especially the part about playing Scharnie as a Cruiser. To me, that's what she is, a Mega Cruiser and I fight her like I do a Cruiser. Mooglinux, you're a Cruiser player so drive Scharnie like you drive your smaller Cruisers.

When you get comfortable with Scharnie, you'll find that you can fight very aggressively with her, but don't over-extend and get too far away from your team-mates. ( and keep a sharp eye on the mini-map) She's tough and can deal out a serious damn-damn on opponents, but she's not invincible.

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Check the mini map between each salvo for both red and green ship positions and their directions.

Learn to watch the green ships. Most of the time I get overextended is when my teammates run away from an inferior enemy force and leave me alone to get focused to death. It never fails, 5 greens vs 3 reds and the second a red shell comes in 4 of them run away. It sucks but it is usually a good idea to run away with them.

Edited by MasterDiggs

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Thanks for all of the advice. Here is my most recent match, and I think I definitely improved. Unfortunately I hadn't equipped premium consumables because I didn't expect to do well, but it probably would have made the difference.

 

What do you recommend I do to find people to division up with?

20171022_144816_PGSB507-Scharnhorst_20_NE_two_brothers.wowsreplay

shot-17.10.22_15.12.00-0482.jpg

shot-17.10.22_15.12.09-0174.jpg

shot-17.10.22_15.11.47-0787.jpg

shot-17.10.22_15.11.53-0792.jpg

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