Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
VGLance

Perception and perspective is important for steamrolls

102 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,676
[TNG]
Members
2,229 posts
10,709 battles

Ever get upset over your team getting completely steamrolled thinking you had a fighting chance if someone on your team did X instead of Y, and maybe that other guy zigged instead of zagged?  You could have won if it wasn't for this or that windowlicker....  The reality is that there are matches that are decided before they started.  There was nothing the team could have done within their capacity to win the match and getting angry over it is a waste of energy.

 

Players aren't going to take the time to manually lookup all 24 players to properly comprehend and perceive just how outrageously lopsided WG can make teams when it comes to skill.  And therefore their perception is no where near reality.  To gain proper perspective, take a moment to look at the images below (use the zoom in your browser if the images are too small to read), and pay special attention to not only the statistical imbalance, but the battle result (including ships survived) and especially the duration.

 

You just have to feel terrible for the enemy team.  WG shafted them bigtime.  And it is not a fun match for either team.  Everyone loses in this scenario.  So the next time you get slaughtered in 6-8 minutes, I hope this visual will help reduce the number of times a single person gets blamed / singled out as a scapegoat for a loss when in reality, WG made a wildly unbalanced matchup.  The only thing we can do is take a deep breath and load a new match.

 

ujn9dwb.jpg

 

Ryw7Ccn.jpg

 

mB0Wdw0.jpg

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
455
[-AA-]
Members
1,756 posts
6,674 battles

TBH if I would know this beforehand I would simply leave the battle at the start.

 

Now I sometimes loose my temper, which I know I shouldn’t, because there isnt anything competitive about this game. 

Perhaps I should get it.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
181
[NSEW]
Members
1,032 posts

Now this is interesting to see, with supported information. Playing against 1 or 2 over 60% rating is hard enough, but across the board the OPFOR was under matched. 

Thanks for the post, it's a change of pace from the norm/theme of the forum posts here.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
558
[SOV]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,682 posts
6,777 battles

Really no need to look up each player's stats to understand that this particular battle would have been an uphill climb for the opposing team. Clan tags + division is a dead giveaway, in this case. It's just the way things go from time to time, sometimes you end up with the triple/double unicum divisions, sometimes you are the minor speed bump on their path to victory. I'm used to it from WoT.

 

+1 for the message though, all we can do is queue up another battle and keep trying our best in every game. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,011
[UDEAD]
Beta Testers
1,298 posts
12,407 battles

MM like this is why you get the countless forum threads complaining about Unicum 3 man divisions.  The reality is that since MM likes to balance divisions, most of the time it does.  If you are Joe Average, and you division with two more average guys, you are going to get matched up with other 3 man divisions, likely one that is better than you.  If you are low skill player, and you team up with other low skill players, you will ALWAYS get matched up against better players and sentence your team to a low chance of victory.  The problem isn't 3 man Unicum divisions, it's 3 man potato divisions - but you'll never get them to accept that fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,614 posts
3,569 battles

Well....

 

It would have been a very fun and intense battle had the MM split up the SOUR and OPG divisions....

 

But, I guess it needs to get drunk and have some fun sometimes too, right?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,612
[GWG]
[GWG]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
19,389 posts
10,935 battles

I don't like steamrolls from either side because they are so unsatisfying. Since WG rightly does not factor skill, the period it was in the MM over in WoWP was a disaster with some players were being passed over time and again, you are going to get teams from awesome to incompetent and everything in between. Roll with them and do your best to bring out the desired result.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
181
[NSEW]
Members
1,032 posts

Well, besides taking note of which ships pose a threat to our side from the roster screen/loading screen. I also take note of the clan tags (or familiar players from previous rounds) into consideration. As well as the ship choices of a division. 

Having said that, the OPG, Salty, or other clan players do take my attention. Speaking of such clans, do they only recruit super unicum players or what?

I'm wearing my life jacket whenever I see them lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
83
[WAIFU]
[WAIFU]
Members
384 posts
10,060 battles

very interesting MM that it stacked it like that, I do wonder what does the Matchmaking bot considers for teams other than ship type?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
3,930 posts
8,475 battles
30 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

The problem isn't 3 man Unicum divisions, it's 3 man potato divisions - but you'll never get them to accept that fact.

lol

giphy.gif

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,676
[TNG]
Members
2,229 posts
10,709 battles
1 minute ago, LowSpeed_US said:

Well, besides taking note of which ships pose a threat to our side from the roster screen/loading screen. I also take note of the clan tags (or familiar players from previous rounds) into consideration. As well as the ship choices of a division. 

Having said that, the OPG, Salty, or other clan players do take my attention. Speaking of such clans, do they only recruit super unicum players or what?

I'm wearing my life jacket whenever I see them lol

 

We don't often recruit actually.  Unicum players when looking to join a clan go to websites like wows.numbers and sort by clan to see who the top clans are.  Naturally they are going to knock on Salty's door because they are number 1.  If we notice a non-clan member in a game with really strong stats, some of our officers will reach out to them to see if they are interested in at least joining Sour.  It's kind of like the AAA team of a professional league team.  The requirements are still pretty high.  You need to have a minimum 60% win rate and I think 1300 WTR.  If you have a ton of games played that are preventing you from reaching those numbers in the near term but you're close and your last several thousand games are above those marks, you might still get in, not sure, I don't handle recruiting and not sure how many spots are open.  Like other clans, we're racing to get those expansions to open the clan size.

 

Salty I think requires a min 65% win rate and maybe 1600 WTR but don't quote me on that.  They also have stricter requirements regarding clan wars attendance and whatnot than Sour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,746
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
7,552 posts
11,564 battles

Divisioning with 3x 55% plus players probably gives MM a big helping hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
108
[ZR]
Members
380 posts
9,717 battles
30 minutes ago, LowSpeed_US said:

Speaking of such clans, do they only recruit super unicum players or what?

Unlike several of the unicum clans out there, we're an open recruitment clan (for now till we reach max capacity most likely) to anyone who meets our requirements. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
181
[NSEW]
Members
1,032 posts
15 minutes ago, VGLance said:

 

We don't often recruit actually.  Unicum players when looking to join a clan go to websites like wows.numbers and sort by clan to see who the top clans are.  Naturally they are going to knock on Salty's door because they are number 1.  If we notice a non-clan member in a game with really strong stats, some of our officers will reach out to them to see if they are interested in at least joining Sour.  It's kind of like the AAA team of a professional league team.  The requirements are still pretty high.  You need to have a minimum 60% win rate and I think 1300 WTR.  If you have a ton of games played that are preventing you from reaching those numbers in the near term but you're close and your last several thousand games are above those marks, you might still get in, not sure, I don't handle recruiting and not sure how many spots are open.  Like other clans, we're racing to get those expansions to open the clan size.

 

Salty I think requires a min 65% win rate and maybe 1600 WTR but don't quote me on that.  They also have stricter requirements regarding clan wars attendance and whatnot than Sour.

 

Thanks for the info. Whilst I'm not tied to any clan. Except that I started a Clan due to the recent update to check it out. The oil grind is real for us non-AAA players in our midst..maybe that's generalisation, they are good players in their own right.

 

I'll check out the top ranked Clans roster to increase the knowledge of the battle I'm about to face. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
67
[NGAGE]
Members
107 posts
12,259 battles

Well matchmaking did try to balance the game by placing a tier 8 div in a tier ten game.... The only thing MM really cares about (to my knowledge) is equal number of (Cvs) bbs Ca, and dds with a plus or minus one and an equal number of divs with a plus or minus one.  It doesnt really care about other things.  i still have nightmares from ranked battles where one team would have 3 radars and the other had 0 because MM doesnt take radar into account when it makes the team.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
319 posts
4,388 battles

WG handouts.

 

Match maker fails constantly.  Can't even get the ship classes or gadgets even half the time.  Expective even distribution of player abilities would be asking way too much.  The game will be dead and forgotten by the time they get it right.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,220
[WOLF3]
Members
19,347 posts
17,682 battles

Snowballs are very real in WoWS.  All it takes is for 1-2 bad players to cause the Snowball effect to occur.

 

Example, 1-2 bad moves, the potatoes get rekt and they're dead.  That removes the 2 potatoes from the team.  This affects the group they were with as now they instantly have to fight covering for that dumb, early loss.

 

What was once, say, a 5 vs 5 at a flank, is now down to 4 vs 5.  Eventually that extra ship turns it into 3 vs 5, and the flank starts collapsing.  Eventually those ships will come rolling into the side or rear of the group that is still desperately fighting their comrades at the other side of the cap, rolling up the caps as they do so.  The big Snowball hits without mercy from the flank or rear.  Very hard to stop the momentum especially when you are still deeply engaged and you now have a handful of new threats slamming you from a different direction.

 

Here is a low tier example, not even Imp.Nik.I can stop this Snowball.  Look at those Base XPs!  A Snowball effect starts with 1 victory on the map, then it turns into 2, and on and on.

rvGowzV.jpg

2 hours ago, BiggieD61 said:

MM like this is why you get the countless forum threads complaining about Unicum 3 man divisions.  The reality is that since MM likes to balance divisions, most of the time it does.  If you are Joe Average, and you division with two more average guys, you are going to get matched up with other 3 man divisions, likely one that is better than you.  If you are low skill player, and you team up with other low skill players, you will ALWAYS get matched up against better players and sentence your team to a low chance of victory.  The problem isn't 3 man Unicum divisions, it's 3 man potato divisions - but you'll never get them to accept that fact.

 

You reminded me of an incident last week.  I was part of a Division:  2 Belfast + My Atlanta.  We were backing up this Farragut in Two Brothers for Cap A.  We had 2 BBs less than 5 km behind us, this DD had TONS of support.  Then the Farragut, the 2nd of our team's only 2 DDs (other was at other flank group out east), changes his mind, saying "F--k your smoke and radar support, f--k the 2 BB support, I AM GOING MID CHANNEL!" and got rekt early on.

 

Our west flank collapsed due to loss of vision.  Cruisers, not even Radar Cruisers, can fulfill the stealth and spotting needs of the team.  The Radar Cruisers cannot aggressively hunt down DDs when the team has zero spotting and BBs are looking to nail said Cruisers.  Smoke up?  Sure, but you're going to get torpedoed, if not flushed out of the smoke by said torpedoes, then get shot at.  Can only do a fighting retreat with a stand here and there, but it was a collapse happening.

 

Anyways, all that happened because of one dumb play:  DD rushing mid, removing his stealth, spotting for the entire flank, reducing the team from 2 DDs to 1 DD.  All from one dumb move.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,433
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
4,539 posts
14,686 battles
2 hours ago, Brohk said:

Clan tags + division is a dead giveaway, in this case. It's just the way things go from time to time, sometimes you end up with the triple/double unicum divisions,

 

OPG and SOUR is all I need to see.

 

But even if I"m up against that, I'm going to give them the best I've got.  And if they're on my team, I'm not going to slack off.  Never know what a game will throw you, be you an underdog or a favorite.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
453
[TMS]
Members
2,375 posts
24,497 battles

Desktop MatchMaking Monitor makes it easy,i have removed other players names from the pic.

You can sometimes win despite the odd but most of the time you will not.

potatoes.thumb.png.cf3b51af74e2014b4e5c5b5921ec567f.png

Edited by Final8ty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,249 posts
9,061 battles

Couple of points:

 

The 45% reds on that list contributed to the loss more than the +55% players on the other side contributed to the win. Look...it's a 44% Iowa!....still curious why scrubs are attracted to that boat. WG needs to seriously consider a higher tier mode mode that restricts a minimum WR filter so better players can get away from the garbage players who play to die fast so they can get to the next boat.

 

MM *is not* random. There's always a bias somewhere, even if not intentional on the sorting side of any software sorting algorithm. Having seen too much of weighted sides like this in WoT to be statistically normal I'll present the same theory in that the reason you see so many stacked sides is that crappier players die quicker and sooner and are less likely to watch an ongoing match. They want to get to their next boat and suck because this is arcade mode to them. Net result is crappier players are much faster and more common to enter the MM stack where they get sorted in blobs -vs- truly randomized skill sets.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
541
[HOTEL]
Members
2,018 posts
7,079 battles

This is why I advocate for div matching. Absolutely ridiculous that skilled players can eliminate RNG from team selection and force 3+ unicums on their team while the reds don't even get 1.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
453
[TMS]
Members
2,375 posts
24,497 battles
7 hours ago, Scotty_SE said:

Couple of points:

 

The 45% reds on that list contributed to the loss more than the +55% players on the other side contributed to the win. Look...it's a 44% Iowa!....still curious why scrubs are attracted to that boat. WG needs to seriously consider a higher tier mode mode that restricts a minimum WR filter so better players can get away from the garbage players who play to die fast so they can get to the next boat.

 

MM *is not* random. There's always a bias somewhere, even if not intentional on the sorting side of any software sorting algorithm. Having seen too much of weighted sides like this in WoT to be statistically normal I'll present the same theory in that the reason you see so many stacked sides is that crappier players die quicker and sooner and are less likely to watch an ongoing match. They want to get to their next boat and suck because this is arcade mode to them. Net result is crappier players are much faster and more common to enter the MM stack where they get sorted in blobs -vs- truly randomized skill sets.

This was not fun

itgetsworse.thumb.png.ab6130cc292341b8af977cdbb78054d3.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,804
[SYN]
Alpha Tester, Beta Testers
30,523 posts
4,943 battles

You could perfectly balance by skill then have a complete mis match in ship types and firepower.

 

But you could "perfectly" balance everything and STILL have steamrolls be the norm. Why? Just the nature of the game itself. That's war for you.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,944 posts
7,332 battles

in a moment of epiphany the other night i realized that any time i get pissed in this game, its at myself, even when i vent it towards the team.

 

if i die and i get pissed, its because im angry at myself for having made a mistake; oftentimes the mistake is stems from a larger mistake such as...

 

if the team loses and i get pissed, im angry at myself for giving these nitwits the benefit of the doubt that they could win, in spite of every piece of evidence saying otherwise, and still sticking around with them knowing the match would do nothing but frustrate and piss me off.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,944 posts
7,332 battles
20 hours ago, Muki41 said:

very interesting MM that it stacked it like that, I do wonder what does the Matchmaking bot considers for teams other than ship type?

nothing afaik.

 

the real question we need to ask is... how often do these lopsided matches occur?  it would really all depend on how often the good players are queuing up for matches vs the average or bad players.  if enough good players are queuing up at a high enough rate relative to the average or bad players, then you'll see lopsided matches like this occur more often.

Edited by Shadeylark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×