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ZoomieG

Captain Rebuilds: Rethinking Superintendant for Tank Builds

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Hey Everyone,

With the current free respec on Captain skills, I have a chance to try something I've been thinking about for a while.  Right now I'm T5/6 on all the BB lines, and I decided to stick to a generic tank/survivability build as I work up the lines.  This basic build starts off as PM/PT* - EM - SI - CE for the first 10 points, eventually picking up Fire Prevention at 14.

I've seen great arguments using solid math that show why SI is superior and saves you more health over the course of a battle than BoS or HA.  However, I think a lot of these arguments don't take Premium Repair Party into account.  Premium RP is superior to SI, because it not only grants an additional use of RP, but also reduces the cooldown, which SI does not.  Right now I tend use both (for that cooldown buff), so that grants 5 heals with reduced cooldown.

The catch: I don't think I've ever been able to use all 5 heals.  I either manage to position well enough to only need one (or none), or I get focused and wrecked faster than I can use the additional heals.  Or if I intentionally tank, I run out of HP before RP usage.  Battleships just aren't usually quick enough to get out of a bad situation to make use of 5 heals.

My thoughts: rather than SI, spec for BoS or Vigilance.  Then after 14 points with FP, finish off the build with the other of the two, along with AR for a total of 19.  BoS would reduce damage on fires while RP is on cooldown, and Vigilance will help with torpedo beats.

Note: This argument currently doesn't account for other consumables certain BBs may have, but the same argument applies; premium consumable is better than SI.

Any flaws or counterpoints you all have to add would be appreciated.  If you do manage to make good use of 5 heals on a regular basis, I'd like to hear strategy for that as well.

*PTvPM - There are good arguments for either, but this isn't that thread. :)

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Id say I use the 5th heal in maybe 25~35% of my games.

 

I've switched over to BoS as my default  first 3pt skill on BBs. 

 

The other thing I've done is ditch all AA specific builds in favor of damage mitigation, the logic being that if a CV wants to strike you,  he will - but this happens much less than being HE spammed. 

Edited by why_u_heff_to_be_mad

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42 minutes ago, ZoomieG said:

Hey Everyone,

With the current free respec on Captain skills, I have a chance to try something I've been thinking about for a while.  Right now I'm T5/6 on all the BB lines, and I decided to stick to a generic tank/survivability build as I work up the lines.  This basic build starts off as PM/PT* - EM - SI - CE for the first 10 points, eventually picking up Fire Prevention at 14.

I've seen great arguments using solid math that show why SI is superior and saves you more health over the course of a battle than BoS or HA.  However, I think a lot of these arguments don't take Premium Repair Party into account.  Premium RP is superior to SI, because it not only grants an additional use of RP, but also reduces the cooldown, which SI does not.  Right now I tend use both (for that cooldown buff), so that grants 5 heals with reduced cooldown.

The catch: I don't think I've ever been able to use all 5 heals.  I either manage to position well enough to only need one (or none), or I get focused and wrecked faster than I can use the additional heals.  Or if I intentionally tank, I run out of HP before RP usage.  Battleships just aren't usually quick enough to get out of a bad situation to make use of 5 heals.

My thoughts: rather than SI, spec for BoS or Vigilance.  Then after 14 points with FP, finish off the build with the other of the two, along with AR for a total of 19.  BoS would reduce damage on fires while RP is on cooldown, and Vigilance will help with torpedo beats.

Note: This argument currently doesn't account for other consumables certain BBs may have, but the same argument applies; premium consumable is better than SI.

Any flaws or counterpoints you all have to add would be appreciated.  If you do manage to make good use of 5 heals on a regular basis, I'd like to hear strategy for that as well.

*PTvPM - There are good arguments for either, but this isn't that thread. :)

Your big mistake is playing with Concealment Expert on any but a handful of stealth focused battleships.

 

I see many people do this and I just shake my head.  Its a waste of 4 skill points for a battleship.

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I use the 5th heal all the time. Burn like a bozo. Print dreadnaughts every other game on BB account. esp on German BBs its great. 

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1 hour ago, ZoomieG said:

-snip-

 

With the rise of RN BBs its actually recommended that you do. Nowadays you are gonna use that heal. It might seem like its not worth it but try it.

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The thing about SI is you might not need the 5th heal back all of the time if you're playing well but sometimes the carry will depend on it being there for you to scrape by for the win on a clock-out.  It provides peace of mind and also nets you more sonar/radar depending on what ship you're rolling.

 

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9 hours ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

 

The other thing I've done is ditch all AA specific builds in favor of damage mitigation, the logic being that if a CV wants to strike you,  he will - but this happens much less than being HE spammed. 

 

And DBs start fires too.

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3 hours ago, TheDreadnought said:

Your big mistake is playing with Concealment Expert on any but a handful of stealth focused battleships.

 

I see many people do this and I just shake my head.  Its a waste of 4 skill points for a battleship.

This thread was supposed to be about SI, but since CE is an important part of the build, and we're discussing respecs anyway, here goes:

One of the nice things about the skills system is that for many ships, there are multiple ways to play, depending on your build, without going 'wrong'.  An in-your-face tank or brawler is probably a valid and fun playstyle for many battleships (maybe not all).

There are certain lines that favor certain builds, but those 'flavors' don't usually manifest strongly until T7/8.  So while you can work toward an AA focused build for USN, it doesn't really pay off until NC at T8.  While you can work toward a secondary build for KM, it only really starts to shine at T7, or arguably T8.  A full or points-limited 'zombie' build, however, can work for all lines, and at lower tiers.  It also might be preferred in the current RNHE meta.

CE is a good 4 point skill for a generic survival build, because other than maybe CVs, which I can't really speak to, I don't really see "stealth" as a build.  It's the default.  When you take CE on a DD, are you building a stealth DD?  When you take CE on a Cruiser, are you building a stealth Cruiser?  No, and No; those are the default 1st 4pt skill on all CA/CL/DD, with a few notable exceptions.

The core mechanic combat is built around is spotting.  Reducing and/or minimizing your visibility, regardless of class, is an important aspect of gameplay.  In battleships, CE isn't for being stealthy as much as being 'selectively visible'.  If you aren't taking CE as your first 4pt skill, and at T8+, mounting the concealment module, you are making a trade-off.  Whether part of a specialized build (secondaries or AA), or due to the playstyle of the ship (FR cruisers, RU DDs), it should be a deliberate decision to give up one of the strongest skills and strongest modules in the game.  In a T8+ BB, CE+CM+camo is a 25% reduction in visibility.  That's pretty powerful for a "waste of points".

TL;DR - CE on a BB isn't building for stealth, it's building for the ability to drop focus and heal or reposition.

If you don't mind, which 4pt skill do you take first on a BB?  That is something you could have easily put in your post to make it worthwhile, rather than just condescending.

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5 hours ago, ZoomieG said:

This thread was supposed to be about SI, but since CE is an important part of the build, and we're discussing respecs anyway, here goes:

One of the nice things about the skills system is that for many ships, there are multiple ways to play, depending on your build, without going 'wrong'.  An in-your-face tank or brawler is probably a valid and fun playstyle for many battleships (maybe not all).

There are certain lines that favor certain builds, but those 'flavors' don't usually manifest strongly until T7/8.  So while you can work toward an AA focused build for USN, it doesn't really pay off until NC at T8.  While you can work toward a secondary build for KM, it only really starts to shine at T7, or arguably T8.  A full or points-limited 'zombie' build, however, can work for all lines, and at lower tiers.  It also might be preferred in the current RNHE meta.

CE is a good 4 point skill for a generic survival build, because other than maybe CVs, which I can't really speak to, I don't really see "stealth" as a build.  It's the default.  When you take CE on a DD, are you building a stealth DD?  When you take CE on a Cruiser, are you building a stealth Cruiser?  No, and No; those are the default 1st 4pt skill on all CA/CL/DD, with a few notable exceptions.

The core mechanic combat is built around is spotting.  Reducing and/or minimizing your visibility, regardless of class, is an important aspect of gameplay.  In battleships, CE isn't for being stealthy as much as being 'selectively visible'.  If you aren't taking CE as your first 4pt skill, and at T8+, mounting the concealment module, you are making a trade-off.  Whether part of a specialized build (secondaries or AA), or due to the playstyle of the ship (FR cruisers, RU DDs), it should be a deliberate decision to give up one of the strongest skills and strongest modules in the game.  In a T8+ BB, CE+CM+camo is a 25% reduction in visibility.  That's pretty powerful for a "waste of points".

TL;DR - CE on a BB isn't building for stealth, it's building for the ability to drop focus and heal or reposition.

If you don't mind, which 4pt skill do you take first on a BB?  That is something you could have easily put in your post to make it worthwhile, rather than just condescending.

 

Honestly my first 4 point skill really depends on the battleship we're talking about.  For some AFT is a common choice.   It extends the range of your AA unbrella helping both you and your allies. In addition, on some battleshipa it really comes in handy with the extended secondary range.

 

You really have to carefully consider your combination of modules and captain skills for each BB.  CE is rarely an optimal choice.

 

The problem with CE is thst it really only makes a couple kilometers of differrnce. You're going to be spending pretty much the entire game spotted anyway, if you're slinging as much steel ss you should be.

 

With few exceptions most battleships are too slow to disengage and drop into stealth the way a cruiser or destroyer can.

 

Anyway, I could go on but you get the idea and I don't care enough to type a wall of text on my phone.  Take CE if you like. 

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