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WG, when are you going to balance Scenarios with the understanding that the average player is clueless, and not only doesn't listen, but refuses to listen, if they even understand what's being said by the team to them?

 

Sincerely,

A guy who both loves and hates your Operations mode.

 

I'm gonna fill up a tank and vape away for a while.:etc_hide_turtle:


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26 minutes ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

WG, when are you going to balance Scenarios with the understanding that the average player is clueless, and not only doesn't listen, but refuses to listen, if they even understand what's being said by the team to them?

 

Sincerely,

A guy who both loves and hates your Operations mode.

 

I'm gonna fill up a tank and vape away for a while.:etc_hide_turtle:

Yawn


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Spoiler

 



If you meet a potato in the morning  you met a potato that day...
If you meet potatoes all day, then you are the potato...

Edited by pmgaudio

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The only Operation that I've seen as even close to hard was the Defense of Newport Base.  Also, when you say "hard", do you mean "hard to win" or "hard to win with 5 stars"?  I think that every Operation is pretty darned easy to win, but winning with 5 stars can be a little more difficult.  And why should a 5 star win be "easy"?  Operations at the normal skill level shouldn't be co-op easy.

Also, I don't think that the "average" player is clueless.  I don't think that that's fair.  I will say though that there are plenty of clueless players in the mix.  With operations, I think that some of it is that some players don't take any time to watch youtube videos of the operations or bother to learn what it takes to win (and win with 5 stars).  They'll just charge out there and think that it's no different from coop and that all they have to do is kill everything.  And while technically not far from the truth, you need to accomplish things like preventing enemy ships from killing a certain ship or entering an inner harbor, which can't be accomplished by blinding following a "just kill everything" mentality.  It requires a modicum of team work, which you can see occasionally in operations, but not always.

I will say that even with a full clan of players doing an operation, you can sometimes fail to win or win with 5 stars.  The two port based operations are a little more difficult than the other two.  And it can be easy to miss one of the secondary goals, if you're not paying really close attention.

 

 


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33 minutes ago, TheKrimzonDemon said:

WG, when are you going to balance Scenarios with the understanding that the average player is clueless, and not only doesn't listen, but refuses to listen, if they even understand what's being said by the team to them?

 

Sincerely,

A guy who both loves and hates your Operations mode.

 

I'm gonna fill up a tank and vape away for a while.:etc_hide_turtle:

Don't be hating the Potato's they're have feelings too


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7 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The only Operation that I've seen as even close to hard was the Defense of Newport Base.  Also, when you say "hard", do you mean "hard to win" or "hard to win with 5 stars"?  I think that every Operation is pretty darned easy to win, but winning with 5 stars can be a little more difficult.  And why should a 5 star win be "easy"?  Operations at the normal skill level shouldn't be co-op easy.

Also, I don't think that the "average" player is clueless.  I don't think that that's fair.  I will say though that there are plenty of clueless players in the mix.  With operations, I think that some of it is that some players don't take any time to watch youtube videos of the operations or bother to learn what it takes to win (and win with 5 stars).  They'll just charge out there and think that it's no different from coop and that all they have to do is kill everything.  And while technically not far from the truth, you need to accomplish things like preventing enemy ships from killing a certain ship or entering an inner harbor, which can't be accomplished by blinding following a "just kill everything" mentality.  It requires a modicum of team work, which you can see occasionally in operations, but not always.

I will say that even with a full clan of players doing an operation, you can sometimes fail to win or win with 5 stars.  The two port based operations are a little more difficult than the other two.  And it can be easy to miss one of the secondary goals, if you're not paying really close attention.

 

 

n8NeJj2.jpg


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I prefer them difficult. There's no fun to it if you win without any real effort on your first try. A challenge is always fun, even if it means you have to hard carry. Potatoes will be potatoes, imagine what would happen if the entire game was set up to specifically benefit them... Not a very fun game to play anymore.


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9 minutes ago, Eric_Von_Hess said:

Don't be hating the Potato's they're have feelings too

I want to cook them.


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All the more reason for them to get Hard Mode working quickly. Then we can literally have it both ways.


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7 minutes ago, Speedstang said:

I prefer them difficult. There's no fun to it if you win without any real effort on your first try. A challenge is always fun, even if it means you have to hard carry. Potatoes will be potatoes, imagine what would happen if the entire game was set up to specifically benefit them... Not a very fun game to play anymore.

Stang, in all honesty, I managed to win the Dunkirk op the very first time with 5 stars.  BUT, I also happened to have watched the Jingles video on it beforehand, so I knew what was going to happen and what I needed to do to succeed.  I can see where playing any operation cold the very first time would be significantly more difficult.

 


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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

Stang, in all honesty, I managed to win the Dunkirk op the very first time with 5 stars.  BUT, I also happened to have watched the Jingles video on it beforehand, so I knew what was going to happen and what I needed to do to succeed.  I can see where playing any operation cold the very first time would be significantly more difficult.

 

Never played the Dunkirk operation, I wasn't around on the game during that time. I did, however, beat 1 of the operations cold with 5 stars (forgot the name), but it wasn't just a mindless no-effort win. The point I'm trying to make is that 5 stars shouldn't just be handed to you without even trying, much like a victory in co-op is. That said, I'm really hyped for the hard difficulty, as that will likely be much more fun and challenging. 


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1 minute ago, Speedstang said:

Never played the Dunkirk operation, I wasn't around on the game during that time. I did, however, beat 1 of the operations cold with 5 stars (forgot the name), but it wasn't just a mindless no-effort win. The point I'm trying to make is that 5 stars shouldn't just be handed to you without even trying, much like a victory in co-op is. That said, I'm really hyped for the hard difficulty, as that will likely be much more fun and challenging. 

Oh, I agree that 5 star wins shouldn't be "co-op easy".  Personally, I'm not quite as hyped about hard difficulty as you.  Part of me would rather they devoted the time and effort to developing more operations (and at different tiers) than spending it on making existing ones more difficult.

 


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29 minutes ago, Crucis said:

The only Operation that I've seen as even close to hard was the Defense of Newport Base.  Also, when you say "hard", do you mean "hard to win" or "hard to win with 5 stars"?  I think that every Operation is pretty darned easy to win, but winning with 5 stars can be a little more difficult.  And why should a 5 star win be "easy"?  Operations at the normal skill level shouldn't be co-op easy.

Also, I don't think that the "average" player is clueless.  I don't think that that's fair.  I will say though that there are plenty of clueless players in the mix.  With operations, I think that some of it is that some players don't take any time to watch youtube videos of the operations or bother to learn what it takes to win (and win with 5 stars).  They'll just charge out there and think that it's no different from coop and that all they have to do is kill everything.  And while technically not far from the truth, you need to accomplish things like preventing enemy ships from killing a certain ship or entering an inner harbor, which can't be accomplished by blinding following a "just kill everything" mentality.  It requires a modicum of team work, which you can see occasionally in operations, but not always.

I will say that even with a full clan of players doing an operation, you can sometimes fail to win or win with 5 stars.  The two port based operations are a little more difficult than the other two.  And it can be easy to miss one of the secondary goals, if you're not paying really close attention.

 

 

 

Well the Halloween mission is pretty challenging.  I've played it a number of times and fought up to just in front of the portal but Rasputin and his monster battleship always sinks the Transylvania in the end.   I think I've figured out how to beat him, but I'd need the cooperation of the entire team to do it and that's hard to do (even when part of the team is your own clan *sigh*). 


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6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Oh, I agree that 5 star wins shouldn't be "co-op easy".  Personally, I'm not quite as hyped about hard difficulty as you.  Part of me would rather they devoted the time and effort to developing more operations (and at different tiers) than spending it on making existing ones more difficult.

 

 

I imagine it's a lot simpler to make existing operations harder than it is to create new ones. 


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4 minutes ago, DDGPhalanx said:

 

I imagine it's a lot simpler to make existing operations harder than it is to create new ones. 

Agreed.  Also, I will say that if one is creating a new operation that requires a new map, that ups the difficulty level a notch or 2.  

Still, I would rather see the effort put into new operations and at different tiers than tier 6, because I like variety.  Just making an existing mission more difficulty does little to enhance variety IMO.

 


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13 minutes ago, BB3_Oregon_Steel said:

 

Well the Halloween mission is pretty challenging.  I've played it a number of times and fought up to just in front of the portal but Rasputin and his monster battleship always sinks the Transylvania in the end.   I think I've figured out how to beat him, but I'd need the cooperation of the entire team to do it and that's hard to do (even when part of the team is your own clan *sigh*). 

I've fought this mission a handful of times in the past couple days.  It does require some team work, as well as an understanding of the details of the operation, like not having DD's sit in the Transylvania's circle unless absolutely necessary for healing, because it speeds up that Trans and causes it to outrun your BB's.  You really don't want your DDs or CA's in the circle unless they need some healing.  But at the same time, you need to have at least one ship in the circle with the Trans to keep it moving, since that's one of the secondary missions.

In short, it's yet another operation that's not just all about killing everything and nothing else.  And I think that that's what makes it interesting.

 


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Well I feel like there is too big of a gap in the difficulty of the operations and that is due to the overall mission objectives.  The easier ones to me are Raptor Rescue and Operation Aegis.  This is because they almost complete themselves.  The primary objectives can be completed by just killing all the red ships in the order you see them.  Most of the secondaries can be completed by cruiser and even some BB.  Defense of Naval Station Newport is sort of in the middle of difficulty.  You can lose it with a bad group but you can also 5 star it with a mediocre group.  A CV isn't needed but helps out immensely.

 

The one operation that stands out is Killer Whale.  Most of the secondary objectives are easy enough to complete but the carrier kills and the primary objective are sometimes counter intuitive.  You can get all of the secondaries and have all of your ships live but if you don;t make it to the evac point then its a hard loss.  Twenty minutes of perfect work for nothing possibly.  Couple that with the fact that the two carriers you have to kill can spawn on the opposite end of the map from the evac point and it makes that mission even tougher.  You either need a CV to strike them or someone has to sacrifice their ship because there is no way a ship can kill those CV and still make it to the north evac point.

 

This Halloween event feels like it is in between Newport and Killer Whale.  Some of the secondaries are easy like kill catapults and kill 16 ships.  The really hard part is killing Rasputin combined with the Transylvania not stopping.  You need to get in close to the Trans to protect it from fire which speeds the ship up and makes it run into Rasputin even faster.  Three and four star wins are not too difficult with a mediocre team but a five star win is nearly impossible unless you have a good team.  My clan managed to get a five star win by having the battleships ram Rasputin as soon as they could.

 

Some of the ops are fairly tater friendly and some are quite punishing to the taters.  Some are to the point if you have a few taters the unicums can't carry hard enough.  I'm sure we can all agree that playing your best game ever and still losing is quite frustrating.


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1 hour ago, pmgaudio said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 



If you meet a potato in the morning  you met a potato that day...
If you meet potatoes all day, then you are the potato...

Foolish.  Hubris.

 

Edited by dmckay

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1 hour ago, pmgaudio said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 



If you meet a potato in the morning  you met a potato that day...
If you meet potatoes all day, then you are the potato...

So... You only play divisions in prime time on weekdays? Cause this game has more [edited]potatoes than Ireland and Peru combined.


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17 hours ago, Crucis said:

Agreed.  Also, I will say that if one is creating a new operation that requires a new map, that ups the difficulty level a notch or 2.  

Still, I would rather see the effort put into new operations and at different tiers than tier 6, because I like variety.  Just making an existing mission more difficulty does little to enhance variety IMO.

 

 

In a perfect world, they'd do both :cap_haloween: 

 

As for operations at different tiers, though, I think that could become problematic. They should want every player to be able to participate (or as many as possible,) but at the same time, you can't have overly simplistic gameplay or else it's no different than co-op. If you make ops for tier 8+ ships, a decent-sized portion of the player base wouldn't be able to participate, and if you make ops for tier 4- ships, the meta could get too simple. I think that's why they settled around 5-6. 

 

Still, it would be fun to run ops at higher tiers for sure (and the Dunkirk op was a blast, though it required unique ships to balance properly). I thoroughly enjoy the existing ops, so the more the merrier, and if they can make the existing ops harder with easy and minor tweaks, even better. Just gotta remember who they're targeting (or should target)- namely, everybody. 


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8 hours ago, DDGPhalanx said:

 

In a perfect world, they'd do both :cap_haloween: 

 

As for operations at different tiers, though, I think that could become problematic. They should want every player to be able to participate (or as many as possible,) but at the same time, you can't have overly simplistic gameplay or else it's no different than co-op. If you make ops for tier 8+ ships, a decent-sized portion of the player base wouldn't be able to participate, and if you make ops for tier 4- ships, the meta could get too simple. I think that's why they settled around 5-6. 

 

Still, it would be fun to run ops at higher tiers for sure (and the Dunkirk op was a blast, though it required unique ships to balance properly). I thoroughly enjoy the existing ops, so the more the merrier, and if they can make the existing ops harder with easy and minor tweaks, even better. Just gotta remember who they're targeting (or should target)- namely, everybody. 

Actually, I was thinking more like tier 5 and 7 ops for now.  Tier 5 would be nice for people who'd like to play their tier 5's but don't like feeling like they're always bottom tier.  I wouldn't mind tier 8 ops, but above that seems like there wouldn't be enough of a player base.


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